Edl Holding Demo At Downing Street This Bank Holiday; Is Bhullar Sahibs Vigil Still There?

[Pehlvan]

Credit to the EDL leaders and lads who apologised to the Sikhs for the bottle throwings mishap between UAF and EDL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Dw1fFfBAAM

We need to be very careful here....they are clearly trying to get Sikhs on their side. "We need to do more together", "We need to stand together", then chanting "Sikh,Sikh,Sikh" so we get happy. They have to make it look like they are not against ethnic miniorities.

A lot of the anger amongst working class Brits is due to the recession and the huge amount of immigrants coming here. The massive support for UKIP is proof they don't want any more immigrants here; we are seeing the rise of the right-wing.

To those who still think that EDL is not against Islam please see the videos of their protests on youtube where they routinely shout disgusting things such as "Who the f**k is Allah", "Muhammad is a p**do". As Sikhs do we want to march alongside these sort of people ? Is this what our ancestors would have done ? British people generally are anti-religion, we have seen it with Sikh issues where they have been completely against us (the be-izati play, mixed marriages etc). Today it is Muslims, tomorrow it will be us.

Singho, let's just keep quiet on this matter and concentrate on sorting out the problems we have in our own community. No other community is supporting them; I don't know why our people have jumped on this bandwagon.

[UKLondonSikh]

WestLegalSingh = Brother, exactly 2 and a half times as many Muslims were murdered in Punjab 1947 as Sikhs.

UK = Paji WestLondonSingh I see you are still pushing the falsehood that the Muslims were the victims of 1947 and that those big bad Sikhs were the aggressors and murderers - as Sikhs dared to defend Majha, Malwa and Doaba from annexation to Pakistan because the Muslims outnumbered our Sikh Qaum in most of present day East Punjab. So let's take another look at your inaccurate and Pakistani-influenced statistics:

UK = Let me clarify that I don't have anything whatsoever against any good Muslim. Islam may be a false religion that supports slavery and believes in the virgin birth of Jesus but that doesn't make all Muslims bad. After all, a lot of Indians pray to cows and monkey gods - which similarly doesn't make them bad people per se.

LegalSingh = I, therefore, recommend you do 2 things : Firstly, read the census reports from before 1947 and see what just a small percentage of sikhs it was that lived in what is now Pakistan.

UK = That would only serve to prove that a greater PERCENTAGE of the Sikh population were killed there! You've disproven your own point as to who suffered most in per capita terms. Do you now admit that Sikhs suffered the most of any Punjabi community in percentage terms?

UK = For clarity, if 300,000 Sikhs were killed and say 1.5 million Sikhs lived on the Pakistan side then that equates to 20% of the Sikh pouplation being killed there. If say 3 million Sikhs lived on the Pakistan side, then that would mean 10% of the Sikhs there were killed.

WestLondonSingh = As bad as our death toll was their death toll was a 150% higher.

UK = The "150% higher" figure is nonsense dreamt up by Muslim propagandists. Btw "half as much again" means 50% more and not "150%" as you stated. Paji if the Sikhs did not defend themselves the Muslims would have tried to get Jalandhar in Pakistan (via ethnic cleansing) ... because there were just as many Muslims in Doaba as us Sikhs (if not more). I know for a fact (as I'm half Doabi :-) that the Muslims kicked off first in order to ethnically cleanse us Sikhs out as kaffirs. Amritsar they would have taken as well as they outnumbered us there too. Say 350,000 Muslims dead out of a total Muslim population of 100million or thereabouts in 1947 = 0.35% innocents from their population sadly died. Statistically we lost by most estimates around twelve times as many innocent people (IN PERCENTAGE TERMS) for the size of our community ... or are you denying that undisputed fact?

UK = But just to get this point crystal clear to you let us consider the following:

UK = Population A = 100 million (this population the Quran teaches them to support slavery, paedophilia + caste discrimination)

UK = Population B = 6 million (this population has been taught by SGGS Ji to OPPOSE slavery, paedophilia + caste discrimination)

UK = Population A loses 300,000 people in a tragedy

UK = Population B loses 299,999 people in the same tragedy

UK = On paper, the Muslim propagandists can say that "oh the Muslims suffered more casulaties, look how evil + horrible those Sikhs are because they dare to believe in 1 God + oppose slavery at the same time"

UK = But we have have clearly shown above that Population B has suffered 16-17 times greater losses for it's smaller population base

UK = I say to you point blank LegalSingh Paji that we Sikhs suffered more - between 10-15 times greater losses than Muslims on a per capita basis in 1947. That's why Pakistan is an apartheid ideology supporting snake that doesn't merit your support so often.

UK = So I hope you will agree with me that we shouldn't be spending tourist dollars in Pakistan enriching those that butchered our Qaum and enriching the descendents of those who brutally killed 300,000 plus Sikhs in 1947 - the equivalent of one hundred Delhi's on November 1st 1984 or the equivalent of over 10 million Englishmen being killed off today in 2013.

WestLondonSingh = Hand on my heart, having visited Pakistan, I can honestly state that I recieved so much love and respect from the people there.

UK = Paji I get love and respect from all different people and races for being Sikh ... the only difference is the Muslims consistently inflicted the worst ghallugharas and holocausts on Sikhs repeatedly for 350 years ... next time you want to be friendly to them ... encourage them to visit East Punjab instead (rather than you spending your money in Pakistan ... which in turn helps Pakistan's ISI to supply drugs over the border that helps addict Sikh youth). Go to Slough, Alum Rock, Bradford etc and spend some time with our Punjabi Muslim friends whether they be Muslim Jatt, Muslim Rajput, Arain(Kamboh+Saini), Sheikh(Khatri+Arora), Butt(Brahmin) castes etc and trust me the majority of male Punjabi Muslims are 100% united in their utter hatred of Sikhs (because we are THE true monotheistic faith) and are proud of how they ethnically cleansed West Punjab of Sikhs and how they brutally converted and raped our women in 1947. Guess which landowning population segment of the Sikhs suffered worst in the rural areas of West Punjab? They probably treated you like a prince because you were enriching their economy and because they know that you are the enemy of THEIR enemy ... as Pakistan's ISI (that kept Bin Laden in Punjab) thinks ... "let's get gullible Sikhs like LegalSingh thinking Islam is suddenly all friendly now" (despite 1947) ... that way we Pakistani's can supply weapons to get Sikh naujawaans killed by GOI as was the case between 1984-1995 ... whilst supplying drugs over the border for the additional bonus profit of billions. It's a win/win situation for Punjabi Muslims. Check with your Pakistani friends what great respect Aurangzeb, Jehangir and the Mughals are revered with by the Punjabi Muslims whilst Bhai Mardana Ji is despised by Punjabi Muslims and called a Kanjar simply for Bhai Mardana Ji being the first Sikh and an apostate from Islam.

[Borat]

'Muslims' haven't continously persecuted us Sikhs......The Mughals did. Even when the 0.1% of the Muslims who were part of the Mughal govt persecuted us there are plenty of examples throughout our history of when ordinary Muslims not only saved our lives but also laid down their lives in defence of our Gurus. By the same token, if 0.1% of Muslim women and children have become suicide bombers it is totally irrational to taint the other 99.9% with the same brush. Our Gurus taught us that time and again.

Frankly, the Sikh that sides with hate-filled facists is no Sikh at all. Rather, he needs his head examined.

I politely suggest you spend less time occupying your mind with irrational fears about Islamic history and spend more time reading up on your own history and the lessons our Gurus have taught us. For example, what the 5th master Guru Arjan Dev ji taught us. He came down to doaba to get married in a muslim village called 'Mao'. The Muslims of the village showed him so much kindness he was overwhelmed. He called the Muslims of the area 'his beloved muslims' and to this day the big historic Gurdwara there is joined at the hip with a Muslim Mosque. As per Guru ji's wishes both the Gurdwara and the Mosque share a wall to show the love between the 2 communities.

You are a fool my friend if you think the ordinary rank and file EDL supporter knows the difference between old Mrs Kaur and old Mrs Khan. In that respect, you should look at the disgusting abuse Mrs Khan has to face as abuse directed at your own mother. Indeed, if the EDL supporter gets his wish and deports Mrs Khan it is your own mother who is next on his hit-list

@Legal Singh perhaps you have not heard about the plight of Sikhs in Pakistan or in Afghanistan.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2032514,00.html

If you honestly think that Muslims will give you such respect and protection than by all means, go live in a Muslim country. Unfortunately the Sikhs who do live in Islamic hellholes are resigned to suffer and only the lucky ones can flee.

You do know that Guru Arjan Dev Ji was murdered by Muslims?

Perhaps you should learn more about Sikh history and particularly about the Sikh holocaust of 1746. Muslims have and are still trying to wipe us out.

My original point which you did not refute still stands. Muslims are a far greater threat than the EDL. That doesn't mean every Sikh has to side with the EDL, but that every rational Sikh should oppose the Mohammedans.

[LegalSingh]

You do know that Guru Arjan Dev Ji was murdered by Muslims?......Perhaps you should learn more about Sikh history

It's a mute point because I don't hold every Muslim in the world accountable for what some bad muslims did in the past but Sri Guru Arjan Dev ji was tortured to death on the orders of and in the private house of a Hindu called Chandu Bhaman and he did it for reasons of hatred of the Sikh equality of caste which the Hindu Punjabis of the time intensely disliked. Moreover, when Guru Hargobind ji personally told the Mughal emporer what Chandu Bhaman had done to his father, the Mughal (muslim) emporer ordered Chandu bhaman to be paraded through the streets of Lahore on a donkey before being put to death.

So please, do not ask me to learn more about our history. I know our history well, and I know it teaches us not to blindly and irrationaly hate.

@Legal Singh perhaps you have not heard about the plight of Sikhs in Pakistan or in Afghanistan.

Again, perhaps you have not sat down with Afghan Sikhs and personally heard things from them. They themselves say that the period of Taliban rule was the one time in the last 30 years that they could get on with their business lives in peace and safety. They say the taliban respected Sikhs and, contrary to news reports, Sikhs were not required to wear yellow badges as Hindus were. They say their problems started when the taliban fell and non-religious criminals took over the country. Those non-religious people saw Sikhs as fair game to rob and kill and the exodus of Sikhs from that country started then.

As for Pakistan, 99% of Pakistani Sikhs live in the pathan tribal mountain areas. They live there because, during the massacres in Punjab of 1947, the pathan tribes of nwfp were obliged under their code of ethics (pakhtoonwali) to regard their Sikh neighbours (many of whom are actually ethnically pathan rather than punjabi) as hamsara so were duty bound to protect them with their own lives. Since then, the Sikhs of Pakistan have actually got things alot better and easier than other minorities such as Hindus and Christians, as Sikhs enjoy a position of respect and sentiment in that nation. Irrationality is when you see the 2 or 3 brothers that have been beheaded there as far worse than the 200,000 that India has murdered, raped and hung.

Sikhs, are rational people. There is nothing rational about supporting a disgustingly racist facist organisation like the EDL.

[genie]

We need to be very careful here....they are clearly trying to get Sikhs on their side. "We need to do more together", "We need to stand together", then chanting "Sikh,Sikh,Sikh" so we get happy. They have to make it look like they are not against ethnic miniorities.

A lot of the anger amongst working class Brits is due to the recession and the huge amount of immigrants coming here. The massive support for UKIP is proof they don't want any more immigrants here; we are seeing the rise of the right-wing.

To those who still think that EDL is not against Islam please see the videos of their protests on youtube where they routinely shout disgusting things such as "Who the f**k is Allah", "Muhammad is a p**do". As Sikhs do we want to march alongside these sort of people ? Is this what our ancestors would have done ? British people generally are anti-religion, we have seen it with Sikh issues where they have been completely against us (the be-izati play, mixed marriages etc). Today it is Muslims, tomorrow it will be us.

Singho, let's just keep quiet on this matter and concentrate on sorting out the problems we have in our own community. No other community is supporting them; I don't know why our people have jumped on this bandwagon.

Off course Sikhs should not be naive and gullible to see that there are some real racists who infiltrated EDL and who hate all non-whites and all immigrants muslim or non-muslim. But we also should be ware of the islamification and islam problem that we are already experiencing in western countries, which our ancestors had to face in history in the indian subcontinent.

Islam is a very primitive ideology that does not give the human being alternative to its ideology they must submit and follow it or be treated like crap in a muslim majority dominated society just look at treatment of our Sikh brothers and sisters in afghanistan, pakistan and kashmir. These lands were once under Sikh rule and everyone was treated equally and free to live as they wanted but under Islamic rule the non-muslim populations are eliminated slowly or quickly in genocides.

Here is a video we should all wake up too it was created 5 years ago so you can imagine that the problem of islamification of areas worsened since.

[genie]

And the reason why western govts / politicians dont clamp down on muslim migration and islami-fascist extremism is:

1) Decades of liberal policies of appeasement to muslim intolerant facist culture of undermining non-muslim populations. Whereas most non-muslim immigrants to western nations come to the west to live a better life and be part and parcel of the western society.

2) The increasing and rapidly declining rate of Christian populations of europe has left a vaccum of muslims to exploit meaning they will increase their numbers yet those muslims who want to leave islam are threatened with violence in this life and emotional blackmail of eternal damnation in afterlife. The white westerners are increasingly forgetting their crusader christian roots while the muslims are reminded about jihad and salahudinn almost daily so there is that zeal to fight the un-believer kufr.

3) Economy and international trade.... there are 32 muslim nations in the world the politicans are not stupid they know they need to trade and make money with these muslim populated area's. They cant declare war on all of them at the moment and take over the trading posts so they have to grudging bend over and take the shafting from the muslim ideologues who want to take over europe slowly but surely.

4) The western govts also use salafi wahaaabi muslim extremists who are allowed to carry out attacks in the west to clamp down on ALL our civil liberties and freedoms and they use the jihadi's to give them a cause for small limited so called "war on terror" attacks in muslim nations to basically steal their resources and make money in the aftermath.

And another thing when people try to say there are muslims who helped Sikhs in Sikh history and some muslim saints verses in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. These muslims were sufi and mystical humanist types ones which are pluralist like Sikhs and were open minded. They had a liberal understanding of Islam (did not follow the sunnah or some verses of quran) that made them fall out of mainstream islam and would be declared apostate by most mainstream muslims today. Nowadays most muslim societies and communities in the world are extremely intolerant of other faiths and especially those who want to convert out of islam

Sikhs really need to step up with missionary work to fill that vacuum that Christianity is leaving. Each and every muslim is ordered to do dawah (spread his/her ideology to non-muslims). Muslims has vast number of resources to do that with backing of 32 muslim govts to fund the drive. Sikhs at the moment arent even spreading sikhi to their own Kids and keep telling each other that its not a missionary religion how foolish! This drastically needs to change if we are to have a healthy population to counter the dark shadow of Islamic totalitarian take over in the near future.

[esingh]

It's best to stand along the sidelines and care about our own. There is no need for any alliance with such types, regardless of their overtures to us. The whole thing is a deja vu of when the BNP were doing the same thing a decade ago . These guys need numbers and more importantly other minorities, in order to win credibility amongst the general population. Why do think the charity "Help for Heroes" turned their nose at them today?

As for racism and hate amongst them, it is rampant amongst them and not some conspiracy theory that people are out to spoil their name. Many of these guys came from groups such as C18, BNP, racist football firms largely due to the fact that the EDL is the new fad. There are people among them that are not hate inclined but they are a minority. Their Facebook page has a violent post every minute, although most it is directed at Muslims. One of them I believe is being charged for inciting a crowd to firebomb a mosque.

This enemy of our enemy is should not be our friend.

[Pehlvan]

Off course Sikhs should not be naive and gullible to see that there are some real racists who infiltrated EDL and who hate all non-whites and all immigrants muslim or non-muslim. But we also should be ware of the islamification and islam problem that we are already experiencing in western countries, which our ancestors had to face in history in the indian subcontinent.Islam is a very primitive ideology that does not give the human being alternative to its ideology they must submit and follow it or be treated like crap in a muslim majority dominated society just look at treatment of our Sikh brothers and sisters in afghanistan, pakistan and kashmir. These lands were once under Sikh rule and everyone was treated equally and free to live as they wanted but under Islamic rule the non-muslim populations are eliminated slowly or quickly in genocides.Here is a video we should all wake up too it was created 5 years ago so you can imagine that the problem of islamification of areas worsened since.

I would say that deep down all the EDL are racist and anti-religion; they will never accept us as we are different. They are trying to show that they like us now because it is a publicity stunt....give it time and you will see their true colours.

Our Gurus faced the problem of forced conversion to Islam by the ruler of the time and they were never against the religion but rather the warped translation of it by some of it's followers. Please read Zafarnama; Guru Sahib does not say anything against Islam rather against Aurangzeb who disgraced his religion.

Very interesting video on the demographics, but it is ironic that many of the so called British values that the EDL cherish are the ones that are causing their culture to be wiped out !!! Liberalism, feminism and most of all the attack on family values are what are causing all other populations to decline while the Muslims have strong family values which is why they are increasing. Western countries are now legalising gay marriage......what do they expect is going to happen to them ? Like the video says, you need at least two children per family to preserve a culture, this won't happen with single parent families, high divorce rates, relationships outside of marriage, promoting gay marriage. It will happen with getting married at a young age, having lots of children, putting the family first rather than career aspirations, mothers who are devoted to their family and not arrogant and selfish as nowadays, fathers who are real men who can give children discipline.

As Sikhs these are the things we need to concentrate on if we want to save our culture rather than aligning ourselves to right wing groups who are using us as pawns.

[T_Singh]

EDL and Sikhs

(Warning first link has a little swear words but Mr T Robinson praising Sikhs)

EDL leaders apologising for any bottles thrown

[Jonny101]

I would say that deep down all the EDL are racist and anti-religion; they will never accept us as we are different. They are trying to show that they like us now because it is a publicity stunt....give it time and you will see their true colours.

Our Gurus faced the problem of forced conversion to Islam by the ruler of the time and they were never against the religion but rather the warped translation of it by some of it's followers. Please read Zafarnama; Guru Sahib does not say anything against Islam rather against Aurangzeb who disgraced his religion.

Very interesting video on the demographics, but it is ironic that many of the so called British values that the EDL cherish are the ones that are causing their culture to be wiped out !!! Liberalism, feminism and most of all the attack on family values are what are causing all other populations to decline while the Muslims have strong family values which is why they are increasing. Western countries are now legalising gay marriage......what do they expect is going to happen to them ? Like the video says, you need at least two children per family to preserve a culture, this won't happen with single parent families, high divorce rates, relationships outside of marriage, promoting gay marriage. It will happen with getting married at a young age, having lots of children, putting the family first rather than career aspirations, mothers who are devoted to their family and not arrogant and selfish as nowadays, fathers who are real men who can give children discipline.

As Sikhs these are the things we need to concentrate on if we want to save our culture rather than aligning ourselves to right wing groups who are using us as pawns.

Very true!!!