Khalsa Panth - 12Th Guru?

[Sikh1313]

I recently became a member on Sikh sangat. I did not expect so much negativity. Everyone has a personal opinion, but there's always a better way to express it.

[SunSingh]

The Khalsa Panth is Guru ROOP, not the Guru itself, similar to how the punj pyare are Guru roop.

This makes sense b/c the Guru is one, and does not hold opinions or beliefs that contradict himself. But the panth has different groups in it with different beliefs. A self-contradicting Guru makes no sense.

Additionally, there is a sakhi from the time of the jungs with the hill rajas. The Khalsa was crushing their armies when the Guru sent his messenger with the message to the Sikhs to turn back and cease the battle. The Khalsa ignored him thinking that they were so powerful and amazing and none could stand before them. Guru ji withdrew his kirpa and the Singhs were soundly defeated. Humbled they apologized, realising that all kirpa comes from the Guru. This sakhi shows that the panth, in and of itself, is not Guru, but rather a roop of the Guru through which the Guru can spread his kirpa and achieve his aims in the world.

[13Mirch]

The Khalsa Panth is Guru ROOP, not the Guru itself, similar to how the punj pyare are Guru roop.

This makes sense b/c the Guru is one, and does not hold opinions or beliefs that contradict himself. But the panth has different groups in it with different beliefs. A self-contradicting Guru makes no sense.

Additionally, there is a sakhi from the time of the jungs with the hill rajas. The Khalsa was crushing their armies when the Guru sent his messenger with the message to the Sikhs to turn back and cease the battle. The Khalsa ignored him thinking that they were so powerful and amazing and none could stand before them. Guru ji withdrew his kirpa and the Singhs were soundly defeated. Humbled they apologized, realising that all kirpa comes from the Guru. This sakhi shows that the panth, in and of itself, is not Guru, but rather a roop of the Guru through which the Guru can spread his kirpa and achieve his aims in the world.

I rest my case. This saakhi defeats the so called 'sound-logic' perpetrated here to veil the Guru-Panth dictum.

[savinderpalsingh]

"In Ko Daras Satguru Ko darshan bolan Guru Shabad Gur Grantha.

Dvadas Roop Satigur Eh Kaiyat Dvadas Bhan Pargat Har Santha.

Partakya Kala Parbraham Dhanee Shai Granth Panth Khalsa Vartanta.

Das Gobind Fateh Satgur Ki Khalsa Granth Gur Roop Bidanta"

"Having the blessed audience (of the Khalsa) is equal to having the audience of the Guru, as long as they are singing the songs of love held within Guru Granth Sahib.

There are twelve forms of the Guru this is what I (Guru Gobind Singh) tell you,

There are twelve forms who revealed themselves I tell you Oh Saints.

This is the blatant arrow of power dispensed by the ultimate Creator,

Deal with the Guru Granth Guru Panth as the Khalsa.

The slave of the Deathless Being, Guru Gobind Singh, (does not recognise this victory as his), the victory is of supreme true Guru, the Khalsa and the Granth, these are very form and presence of the Guru."

Sarbloh Granth Sahib Ji

[SunSingh]

Exactly, the above passage also emphasizes the different FORMS of the Guru.