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Pakistan Set To Declare Panja Sahib As Holy City


Mehtab Singh
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I don't even know why Sikhs still bother to LIVE in Pakistan.

Pakistan can't even protect Shia Muslims from constant bombings and murders, or Muslim Pakistani politicians from assassinations. They can't even provide their people with electricity or food (not like India is much better...)

How exactly can they ever be expected to protect Sikhs and these holy sites? Declaring them holy sites just makes them a target.

Kidnappings and forced conversions, rapes, beheadings, Taliban trying to force anyone who isn't Muslim to pay the Jizya tax in the areas they control. Gurdwara's being stolen from Sikhs by criminal gangs or the government itself. This is the reality of their lives.

I mean sure it's home, but how much worse can it get before YOU NEED TO FREAKING MOVE HOUSE?

Frankly I think Sikhs just need to cut our losses in Pakistan for now. Go to Punjab where we are the majority, use our skills to fix its many problems and make it the best it can possibly be. The same goes for Afghan Sikhs.

To be honest : Sikhs in Pakistan live a BETTER life than Sikhs in India.

Islamic Fundamentalists are at war with everyone...no one is targeting Sikhs...tell me even if 50 Sikhs died in last 10 years of war? Over-whelming majority of victims of TTP terrorism are Muslims...Countries go through the cycles of civil unrest/war...Pakistan is no exception. Atleast Pakistani state did not murder 30,000+ Sikhs like Indian state did...nor did we attack Sikh holiest sites....

Now you understand why Sikhs choose to live in Pakistan?

I don't understand why Indian Sikhs choose to live in India where their religion is not even recognized.

Whats with all this negativity? If Pakistan is doing something right, then appreciate it..rather than this negativity....

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To be honest : Sikhs in Pakistan live a BETTER life than Sikhs in India.

I'm no fan of India's but no Sikh will ever be the prime minister of Paksitan and no Sikh will ever lead the Pakistan Army and never will any Sikh be the chief minister of Pakistani Punjab.

Now you understand why Sikhs choose to live in Pakistan?

They don't really choose to live there. Why would anyone live in a country where 20% of the Sikh population was murdered in 1947.

It's more a case that the GOI makes it difficult for them to come to East Punjab and they lack the resouces to shift

I don't understand why Indian Sikhs choose to live in India where their religion is not even recognized.

The Sikh Marriage Act is being done and Budhhists, Jains and Sikhs are being recognised as non-Hindu's unlike the Mughal + British + 1950 constitution definitions of a Hindu meaning all non-Muslim residents of India. We Sikhs exist regardless of anybody's recognition or attempts to crush us. We have no inferiority complex of the kind u imagine. 1 on 1 we know we are. We are a minority but in the bigger picture globally so are Muslims. And one day who knows maybe all Punjabi's can re-unite as one nation in a monotheistic creed which works for the benefit of all faiths as opposed to only the Ummah and truly permits no (Qureshi) partners with God.

Whats with all this negativity? If Pakistan is doing something right, then appreciate it..rather than this negativity....

That's the thing bro, it's all about business.

They don't give a damn about Sikhs as proved by the ethnic cleansing the Pakistani state organised in 1947 and the land stolen from all the Pakistani Gurdwara's.

I want to add that despite the fact that I dislike your pro-Pakistani and pro-Islamic agenda, nobody has gotten anything against u on a personal level. So people like u who are actually proud of speaking Punjabi are not my enemy or anybody else's on a fundamental level. You are a Punjabi brother (even though that brotherhood means little in the context of 1947). And if u are liberal enough that u would permit your kids to freely leave Islam or marry out with non-Muslims if they wanted to then u are one of the better Punajbi's from Pakistan. But the bottom line is this, so long as Islamic Republic of (West) Pakistan remains a single united country then India which has strengthened economically since 1984 is gana be even less likely to budge on freedom for different states currently locked within it.

Peace

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For each country where Sikhs reside there needs to be a national Sikh organisation with a national Sikh strategy and agenda. With Pakistan, the agenda should be proper upkeep and maryada of the Gurdwaras and expansion of Sikh numbers through the transformation of Sehajdhari Sikhs of Sindh into Keshdhari Sikhs and eventually into Amritdhari Sikhs. I remember reading in the mid-80s that General Zia had allowed the Sehajdharis to be classed as Sikhs rather than as Hindus in the Census. Unfortunately there was no census until 1998 and the order appears to have been forgotten because even though Sikhs were counted in 1981 Census, no Sikh numbers are available for 1998 Census. The Gurdwaras have billions of rupees worth of property attached to them which had been encroached upon or the evacuee board gives out on rent for peanuts. Sikhs in Pakistan need to get organised and make sure that like the Waqf board does in India for Muslim properties, that the evacuee board uses the money from the Gurdwaras towards the social needs of the Sikhs of Pakistan.

Hopefully with Sardar Ramesh Singh becoming a member of the national assembly and a Sikh becoming a member of the KP assembly a step can be taken to organise the Sikhs.

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I want to add that despite the fact that I dislike your pro-Pakistani and pro-Islamic agenda, nobody has gotten anything against u on a personal level. So people like u who are actually proud of speaking Punjabi are not my enemy or anybody else's on a fundamental level. You are a Punjabi brother (even though that brotherhood means little in the context of 1947).

Very well stated. I remember living for sometime in far east and out of pity, i gave free accommodation to a needy Punjabi boy of lahore who was on the street.The boy was very nice, well behaved and not a fundamentalist one.

He had met some friends from pak and one day he introduced me to one of them who met us by chance. That guy was a fundamentalist Muslim. I could gauge from his talks that he was of the view that i may convert. I told this boy that i would never like to meet anyother pakistani Muslim whosoever he may be as some of them are idiots and from the ghettos with very low mentality.

This is the attitude some of these people have and that is below the standard of a civilized society.

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What's funny GPS Veerji is that the Muslim fundamentalist types have fantasies that Amritdhari Sikhs will convert to Islam when the reality is that no Amritdhari is ever that weak to convert towards falsehood. All the enemies of Sikhs are scared of the moment when the Sikh Panth unites. The Punjabi Muslims thought they would kill off all the Sikhs from Amritsar and Tarn Taran and onward and enlarge Pakistan all the way to Delhi but when the Panth united in response to the genocide of innocent Sikhs in Majha and Doaba the result was totally different than what the Mullahs wanted. Same thing with 1984 they chose to attack us on Guru Arjan Dev Ji Shaheedi Diwas thinking it would crush us. We weren't crushed, our Unity got stronger as a result. Once we regain ekta as a Panth our enemies will be powerless against us.

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To be honest : Sikhs in Pakistan live a BETTER life than Sikhs in India.

Islamic Fundamentalists are at war with everyone...no one is targeting Sikhs...tell me even if 50 Sikhs died in last 10 years of war? Over-whelming majority of victims of TTP terrorism are Muslims...Countries go through the cycles of civil unrest/war...Pakistan is no exception. Atleast Pakistani state did not murder 30,000+ Sikhs like Indian state did...nor did we attack Sikh holiest sites....

Now you understand why Sikhs choose to live in Pakistan?

I don't understand why Indian Sikhs choose to live in India where their religion is not even recognized.

Whats with all this negativity? If Pakistan is doing something right, then appreciate it..rather than this negativity....

Punjab is one of the very richest, safest, least hungry (is there such a thing as a starving Punjabi?) states in India with what is widely acknowledged to be the best infrastructure in the country, and it's where most of the Sikhs in the world live which is no coincidence :p .

The quality of life for those in Punjab (even with it's many crippling problems, like lack of electricity and drugs flowing in from Muslim countries) is worlds apart from the poorer states of India that the Indian government can't even feed (despite having enough food overall, India's corruption ensures the poor don't get it).

When you're comparing how successful India and Pakistan are, India's GDP is 10 times higher. When it comes to business, it's obviously better in India.

So really... the welfare of Indian Sikhs can't even be compared to that of Pakistan, we DOMINATE Indian Punjab. Of course we'd have it FAR better if Punjab was more independant, either as as a sovereign country (as it was under the Sikh Empire) or even just with greater devolved governing powers like Scotland has.

Why do Sikhs stay in Pakistan? A number of reasons.

They can't ACTUALLY leave? It's not exactly easy to legally up and leave for India. Are they supposed to smuggle themselves across? Women and children in tow?

Maintaining and defending Gurdwara's and other holy places?

Elderly relatives and family? Jobs and businesses?

Language barrier? They don't speak exactly the same as an Indian Punjabi Sikh even if their ancestors were from Punjab.

Fear of getting killed if they make a fuss and try? Are they even allowed to PROTEST in Pakistan?

30,000+ Sikhs? Where on earth did you pull that number from? The major estimates of the anti-Sikh riots are around 8000, and these atrocities took place almost entirely in Delhi and Haryana where Sikhs were a minority. Hardly anyone would be dumb enough to take part in riots in Punjab even if the government DID organise them, they'd get whupped :p .

The WHOLE reason the storming of the Golden Temple took place in such a messy way (with worshippers inside) was because the Indian government wanted Bhindranwale dead before he gained more followers, and before Sikhs across the Punjab (many who would have guns) had the chance to rush to Amritsar and overwhelm the Indian army stationed there.

It was an act of pure desperation. So the Indian government AT LEAST respects us enough to fear us.

There is NO India without Punjab and its contributions to world history. There wouldn't even be Hinduism since the Rigveda was written in Punjab. The government knows that, that's why Sikhs and Punjab in general gets treated like a battered wife.

Anyway, how many innocent Sikhs have suffered because of Muslims? It's countless mate. Not exactly lacking in bad blood there.

Finally.

WHAT exactly is it about Pakistan that makes it worth staying there?

Tell me what exactly is Pakistan doing right? Minorities are treated horribly in Pakistan, that includes EVERY minority even Muslims who just happen to not be Sunni (such as Shia, Ahmadiyya etc). The government does nothing about this.

90% of women in Pakistan suffer domestic violence, what is the Pakistani government doing about that?

Sikhs are barely ACKNOWLEDGED in Pakistan, so what chance do they have of the government caring for their welfare?

Only in 2013, THIS YEAR has a Sikh (Ramesh Singh Arora) finally been elected into the Provincial Assembly in Pakistan. What is his MAIN concern? Yup, minority rights.

Simply giving a piece of land a new fancy label won't change the living conditions of the people there, as I said before it'll probably make it worse and make them a target. The kuffars are getting special treatment? Can't allow that!

Guru Gobind in his 52 Hukams mandated Sikhs to be forever independant, and clearly we are failing to do that. However India is a far more palatable 'master' than Pakistan will ever be. Although Sikhs worldwide aim for no 'master' at all.

You need to face it.

Pakistan simply can't offer Sikhs a single thing.

Speaking myself as someone whose ancestral village (since partition) is NOW in Pakistani Punjab. Sikhs shouldn't waste their time in Pakistan.

IT'S TIME TO REGROUP AND UNITE BRAHS!

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When will the Indians make Amritsar a Holy City? There are people selling cigarettes, alcohol and much worse just outside the Harimandir Sahib.

this is a long awaited demand by the Sikhs which is yet to be fulfilled. I doubt we will get his demand fulfilled by the Hindus. First it was the Arya Samaj that opposed this. Now if Sikhs ever make this into a hot topic, we will get Shiv Sena opposing this.

Even on other topics what problem should Hindus have with the bluestar and anti Sikh riots memorials being made? it is not like it was being build with their money on their land, but it is being built by Sikhs with Sikh money on Sikh land, yet they have tried to do all the Dakhl they can. Since they could not stop Sikhs on these memorial constructions, they are now going to build an anti Khalistan memorial of their own in the Durgiana Mandir. And for this unholy task they have full support of the congress and bjp who under normal circumstances hate each other, but when opposing Sikhs these two opposing parties become friends.

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30,000+ Sikhs? Where on earth did you pull that number from? The major estimates of the anti-Sikh riots are around 8000, and these atrocities took place almost entirely in Delhi and Haryana where Sikhs were a minority. Hardly anyone would be dumb enough to take part in riots in Punjab even if the government DID organise them, they'd get whupped :p .

30,000 is actually an extremly low figure 200,000 would be a more accurate figure its takes into account all the murders from 84-95 not just the ones in 84

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The massacres took place all over India. The massacres in UP particularly in Kanpur were amongst the worst and killings took place in Bihar , Bombay, MP as well. There likely to be many villages like Hond Chillar where we have yet to find out what happened.

A fairly large proportion of Punjabi/Haryana Hindus have Arya Samaj thinking where they oppose Sikhs at every opportunity. The opposition to Sikh teachings soon after the defeat of Sikhs by British forces in 1849 is a major reason for the conflict of the last 30 years. Sikhs had to oppose the Mahants who were rewriting Sikh teachings to include Brahmin thinking and free Gurdwaras from them with the Singh Sabha and Gurdwara Reform movements. After 1947 the Arya Samaj opposition increased where the Jan Sangh/BJP/RSS formed to oppose Sikhs.

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