Edl On Bbc Asian Network

[proactive]

Well chum, in that case, hurry up.

You only have 20 to 50 years...

By 2030, almost 10% of Europe will be Muslim Inshallah...By 2050, this number can go upto 15% too....

Meanwhile, we, the western Muslims, are here to defend Islam..and point out racist people like you and EDL to the wider masses...and organize politically etc..

What poor guys like you don't understand is that Islam has now become an inevitable part of West, Mashallah!

History tells that once Islam enters an area, its pretty much game over. It becomes an inevitable part of that land...Take India for example..Islam is inevitable part of Indian Subcontinent...

Guess what? ...all that Christian crusades, anti-Islamic propaganda of Church, and Christian warriors failed..Islam has finally entered the Europe! Mashallah...

So stop dreaming about destroying Islam...calm your racist thoughts down! and learn to respect other faiths...

You don't even know what you want, and what are you up against...Instead of crying, if people like you have tried to understand the OP of this thread, which is written by someone smarter than your folks, then you would have been better prepared to 'tackle' Islam...

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/72028-2013-west-islam-and-rest-of-worldislam-as-an-ideological-force-and-global-war-on-terror/

Let me just present a small hint of how clueless you folk are..

According to your world view, you see Muslim women as one of the biggest weakness of Islam...you go like "awww poor souls, we need to liberate them" etc...while Muslim Women are one of the biggest trump card of Islam in the West.... THINK!

You obviously don't see your own hypocrisy, bragging about taking over the west but calling anyone who opposes this a racist!

You're wet dream of Islamic domination will not come to fruition. The problem with Muslims including you is that they just cannot bide their time. They will always act prematurely. Rather than waiting until they are strong enough, they will act prematurely and the likelihood is they will bring a whole heap of trouble on themselves. Islamic supremacists like you will carry out terror attacks like the Woolwich murder and the west will finally have had enough. At the moment you have the support of left wing liberals but that will soon evapourate when the Muslims step up their attacks on homosexuals. Europe may seem a soft touch now but when push comes to shove the whole of Europe will be deal with the Muslim problem. It is only a few generations ago that millions were killed defeating another totalitarian ideology and I wouldn't bet against them doing the same against Islam.

[ThunderousDominator]

First thing : Sikhism is 500+ years old... now coming to your post...

sikhi may be 500+ years old but the khalsa was formally created in 1699 thats what mehtab singh was refering too

I'm on this forum just for time pass etc....I never mentioned even the word 'Islam'...It were SIKHS on this forum who mentioned Islam again and again and again and again. On every single thread, Sikhs will post anti-Islamic videos, abuse Prophet, and post anti-islamic christian polemics...not once..not twice..no thrice..but this has been happening since I don't even know when!

So how come I was preaching something about Islam when I did not even take the name of it? Instead it were other guys who bring up religion every single time in their discussions? So much so that even in the thread about British society reacting weirdly to teacher-student affair, some Sikhs started post anti-Islamic videos. THIS is the level of desperation, insecurity, and inferiority-complex of Sikhs regarding Islam..and then you blame me for coming here to 'preach' Islam? How shameful.

you seem like a smart enough guy you shouldve been able to notice by now that its the same 2-3 guys in every thread in a forum that has thousands of members yet when you reply to them you insult sikhs as a whole and iv seen muslims say much worse about sikhs than any sikh on here has about muslims just go to any big muslim forum and type in sikh in the search bar to find out

BTW: You always say you grew up in middle-east..can I ask where? which country? I've lived in the Middle-East too..and my experience wasn't good either..you we might have something common here :biggrin2:

i believe brother mehtab grew up in the uae

[Deletedkp]

lol..how come I'm practicing "Al Taqqiya" ? What "bullsh!t" have I uttered here? Stop acting like kids..and point out my content that was inappropriate/false/lie according to you. Thats how I can improve. Throwing slurs at others won't help anyone...

PakistaniPunjabi, Lets talk about 1400 year old history. Where does your ancestors play part in this history? Majority of the population within subcontinent were forced to convert to Islam and I bet your ancestors were the ones who were forced to convert. So, where do they sit in this great history of Islam?

For Gods sake, you guys are are looked at by the Arabs as cannon fodder, piece of crap, worthless.

We know, the true Muslims are the Arabs and the rest were converted by force. How long are you going to keep ignoring the fact that the blood which runs through your veins is Hindu.

You can justify it as much as you like but the bottom line is your'e not even a true Muslim in the eyes of the Arabs.

Mate, You come on a Sikh forum to do what? Majority of the posts you write are pointless. Don't get me wrong, you seem like an intelligent person but what is your reason on this forum.

Are you trying to get your place in heaven and your 40 virgins?

[ThunderousDominator]

Wrong. Majority wasn't 'forced'....Majority of Muslims in Indian Subcontinent converted due to Sufi Saints....

You can see that even today...the largest groups of Muslims in India/Pakistan/Bangladesh are that of Sufi tradition....not wahabis.

regarding this claim what do you have to say about this post i made in another thread i dont want to start an arguement im legitimately interested in learning how many converted because of sufis vs how many converted because of fear read the whole thing

Will Durant argued in his 1935 book "The Story of Civilisation: Our Oriental Heritage" (page 459):

The Mohammedan conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. The Islamic historians and scholars have recorded with great glee and pride the slaughters of Hindus, forced conversions, abduction of Hindu women and children to slave markets and the destruction of temples carried out by the warriors of Islam during 800 AD to 1700 AD. Millions of Hindus were converted to Islam by sword during this period.

Writer Fernand Braudel wrote in A History of Civilisations (1995), that Islamic rule in India as a

"colonial experiment" was "extremely violent", and "the Muslims could not rule the country except by systematic terror. Cruelty was the norm burnings, summary executions, crucifixions or impalements, inventive tortures. Hindu temples were destroyed to make way for mosques. On occasion there were forced conversions. If ever there were an uprising, it was instantly and savagely repressed: houses were burned, the countryside was laid waste, men were slaughtered and women were taken as slaves."

The Afghan ruler Mahmud al-Ghazni invaded India no less than seventeen times between 1001 - 1026 AD. The book Tarikh-i-Yamini - written by his secretary documents several episodes of his bloody military campaigns : "The blood of the infidels flowed so copiously [at the Indian city of Thanesar] that the stream was discoloured, notwithstanding its purity, and people were unable to drink itthe infidels deserted the fort and tried to cross the foaming river...but many of them were slain, taken or drowned... Nearly fifty thousand men were killed."

In the contemporary record - ' Taj-ul-Maasir' by Hassn Nizam-i-Naishapuri, it is stated that when Qutb-ul- Din Aibak (of Turko - Afghan origin and the First Sultan of Delhi 1194-1210 AD) conquered Meerat, he demolished all the Hindu temples of the city and erected mosques on their sites. In the city of Aligarh, he converted Hindu inhabitants to Islam by the sword and beheaded all those who adhered to their own religion.

The Persian historian Wassaf writes in his book 'Tazjiyat-ul-Amsar wa Tajriyat ul Asar' that when the Alaul-Din Khilji (An Afghan of Turkish origin and second ruler of the Khilji Dynasty in India 1295-1316 AD) captured the city of Kambayat at the head of the gulf of Cambay, he killed the adult male Hindu inhabitants for the glory of Islam, set flowing rivers of blood, sent the women of the country with all their gold, silver, and jewels, to his own home, and made about twentv thousand Hindu maidens his private slaves.

This ruler once asked his spiritual advisor (or Qazi) as to what was the Islamic law prescribed for the Hindus. The Qazi replied:

Hindus are like the mud; if silver is demanded from them, they must with the greatest humility offer gold. If a Mohammadan desires to spit into a Hindus mouth, the Hindu should open it wide for the purpose. God created the Hindus to be slaves of the Mohammadans. The Prophet hath ordained that, if the Hindus do not accept Islam, they should be imprisoned, tortured, finally put to death, and their property confiscated.

Timur was a Turkic conqueror and founder of the Timurid Dynasty. Timur's Indian campaign (1398 1399 AD) was recorded in his memoirs, collectively known as 'Tuzk-i-Timuri.' In them, he vividly described probably the greatest gruesome act in the entire history of the world where 100,000 Hindu prisoners of war in his camp were executed in a very short space of time. Timur after taking advice from his entourage says in his memoirs :

"they said that on the great day of battle these 100,000 prisoners could not be left with the baggage, and that it would be entirely opposed to the rules of war to set these idolaters and foes of Islam at liberty. In fact, no other course remained but that of making them all food for the sword

Timur thereupon resolved to put them to death. He proclaimed :

"throughout the camp that every man who has infidel prisoners was to put them to death, and whoever neglected to do so should himself be executed and his property given to the informer. When this order became known to the ghazis of Islam, they drew their swords and put their prisoners to death. 100,000 infidels, impious idolaters, were on that day slain. Maulana Nasir-ud-din Umar, a counselor and a man of learning, who, in all his life had never killed a sparrow, now, in execution of my order, slew with his sword fifteen idolatrous Hindus, who were his captives".

During his campaign in India - Timur describes the scene when his army conquered the Indian city of Delhi :

"In a short space of time all the people in the [Delhi] fort were put to the sword, and in the course of one hour the heads of 10,000 infidels were cut off. The sword of Islam was washed in the blood of the infidels, and all the goods and effects, the treasure and the grain which for many a long year had been stored in the fort became the spoil of my soldiers. They set fire to the houses and reduced them to ashes, and they razed the buildings and the fort to the ground....All these infidel Hindus were slain, their women and children, and their property and goods became the spoil of the victors. I proclaimed throughout the camp that every man who had infidel prisoners should put them to death, and whoever neglected to do so should himself be executed and his property given to the informer. When this order became known to the ghazis of Islam, they drew their swords and put their prisoners to death."

The Mughal emperor Babur (who ruled India from 1526 -1530 AD) writing in his memoirs called the 'Baburnama' - wrote : " In AH 934 (2538 C.E.) I attacked Chanderi and by the grace of Allah captured it in a few hours. We got the infidels slaughtered and the place which had been Daru'l-Harb (nation of non-muslims) for years was made into a Daru'l-Islam (a muslim nation)."

In Babur's own words in a poem about killing Hindus (From the 'Baburnama' ) he wrote :

"For the sake of Islam I became a wanderer,

I battled infidels and Hindus,

I determined to become a martyr

Thank God I became a Killer of Non-Muslims!"

The atrocities of the Mughal ruler Shah Jahan (who ruled India between 1628 - 1658 AD) are mentioned in the contemporary record called : 'Badshah Nama, Qazinivi & Badshah Nama , Lahori' and goes on to state : "When Shuja was appointed as governor of Kabul he carried on a ruthless war in the Hindu territory beyond Indus...The sword of Islam yielded a rich crop of converts....Most of the women (to save their honour) burnt themselves to death. Those captured were distributed among Muslim Mansabdars (Noblemen)"

The Afghan ruler Ahmad Shah Abdali attacked India in 1757 AD and made his way to the holy Hindu city of Mathura, the Bethlehem of the Hindus and birthplace of Krishna.

The atrocities that followed are recorded in the contemporary chronicle called : 'Tarikh-I-Alamgiri' :

Abdali's soldiers would be paid 5 Rupees (a sizeable amount at the time) for every enemy head brought in. Every horseman had loaded up all his horses with the plundered property, and atop of it rode the girl-captives and the slaves. The severed heads were tied up in rugs like bundles of grain and placed on the heads of the captives...Then the heads were stuck upon lances and taken to the gate of the chief minister for payment. It was an extraordinary display! Daily did this manner of slaughter and plundering proceed. And at night the shrieks of the women captives who were being raped, deafened the ears of the people...All those heads that had been cut off were built into pillars, and the captive men upon whose heads those bloody bundles had been brought in, were made to grind corn, and then their heads too were cut off. These things went on all the way to the city of Agra, nor was any part of the country spared.

Bro do you seriosly believe that hindus never converted to avoid all of that and to save the lives of themselves and there familys also pakistanis muslims are a proud people do you honestly think that they will teach there children"our ancestors were hindus who converted out of fear" instead saying the majority converted because of sufis became a conveniant exvuse

[Mehtab Singh]

Wrong. Majority wasn't 'forced'....Majority of Muslims in Indian Subcontinent converted due to Sufi Saints....

You can see that even today...the largest groups of Muslims in India/Pakistan/Bangladesh are that of Sufi tradition....not wahabis.

Shugal..time pass...some discussion etc..

By that logic we'll have to neglect all of Sikh history that Aurangzeb used to remove 1.25 mann of janeu each time he sat down for a meal, basically converted thousands of Hindus to Islam before he ate his meal. This explains why the populations of Muslims India+Pakistan+Bangladesh combined is the highest in the world. Where is the Sufism in that?

If you're here for time pass, I'd suggest you pay a deaf ear to anyone who talks against Islam. Why do you waste our time if you're here only to time pass? Ehvi apna vi jor laayi jande ho te sadda vi lvaayi jande ho?

Yes I grew up in the UAE.

Look buddy, Sikhs here openly admit that their ancestors at some point in history were Hindus/Muslims, no matter what "caste" is tagged to them. They are also proud of the fact that their folks were blessed and embraced this divine path. There is 0% chance that anyone was forced because you CANNOT force anyone to become a Sikh. How would you do that? Not possible. On the contrary, chances are that your folks may have been forcefully converted, or converted for money (sorry I am not trying to offend you here, just stating a possibility), or as you say they did come under Islam due to Sufi Saints, no one will ever know how/why. But in our case, our ancestors came to Sikhi purely out of love, and out of their 100% conviction and 100% willingness. Can you guarantee a 100% from your side about your folks? I seriously doubt it.

[TheFancyBanana]

Its not big deal....Sikhs in Guru Gobind's time were very few to pose any significant threat to Muslims...

.

Nah Karoon Ab Kee,

Nah Karoon Baat Tab Kee.

Agar Na Hotey Guru Gobind Singh,

To Sunat Hoti Sab Kee.

I talk about neither yesterday nor tomorrow;

I talk about today.

Had Guru Gobind Singh not been there,

They would all be under the Islamic way.

-Baba Bulleh Shah

[Mehtab Singh]

Regardless, you coming on here and openly calling Sikhs stupid without responding to their questions doesn't make your claims look authentic, does it?

[proactive]

The problem with Islam-haters is mostly that they are uneducated..and hence you see them having basic comprehension problems..like you just shown.

Who talked about 'taking over West'? lol...I said that Islam has become an inevitable part of West Mashallah...Do you read it as "taking over" West? Well, let me make things clear for your high-school dropout standard..

Coptic Christianity is an 'inevitable' part of Egyptian Society....Does it mean that Coptics will take over Muslim Egypt? Hell no! It just means that they can not be ignored. They are ~10% of Egyptian society and you just can't ignore 10% of your society....

It is just you guys that are so paranoid and ball less..that you see everything as "oh Islam taking over" ...hah! jokers.

Man, you are so dumb you don't even know when you are writing Islam supremacist bukwas. Although I should not be surprised, you probably come from a long line of inbred people who married their own cousin sisters! I dread to think what a mangled mess your family tree must be like. Imagine having to explain to your kids that Mommy is also your Bhua!

You said Muslims will be 10% in 2030 and 15% in 2050. So what is that? A reference to the baby making ability of the average Muslim woman or a shout out to all the illegal immigrant Muslims getting their butts out of the Islamic paradises that are Pakistan and Somalia in order to recreate these same paradises in the UK and other parts of Europe. So reference to increasing numbers isn't supremacist, so as you referred to Copts, what if the Egyptian census found that Copts were 10% in 2001 and 15% in 2011, what do you think the Egyptian government or for that matter any Islamic government faced with non-Muslims increasing in number more than Muslims do about it?

[Mehtab Singh]

I dread to think what a mangled mess your family tree must be like. Imagine having to explain to your kids that Mommy is also your Bhua!

I asked my Pakistani classmate in college the same question, as to how can you guys marry your own cousins. His response was even more funnier than the cousin-marrying concept itself. "chaache ya phuphee (bhuaa in their terminology) di kudi naal viah karn da eh fayda hunda ki oh teri ammi nu sass nai balki apni khaala (aunt) hi samjhugi te hor zaada khidmat karugi" "The benefit of marrying a cousin is that she won't see your mom as her sass (mother-in-law) but as her aunt and so will server her more and better".

[Pehlvan]

Re-read my posts and try and understand the bigger picture. I've given you proof time and time and again but you don't want to accept because you are an apologist for EDL chavs.

I have watched SIKH AWARENESS SOCIETY, good work by Bhai Mohan Singh Ji....who is not a supporter of the EDL by the way. Again, I expect you to ignore this.

My solution is to make our community strong by instilling family values and bring back some of the culture/values that we have lost. Make ourselves strong enough so that we don't get so desperate that we beg chavs to protect us or (in India) feel we have to align oursleves with right-wing Hindu groups. If we bring back the Sikh spirit of old everything will sort itself out.

I notice how you haven't answered my point about how our ancestors didn't tolerate abuse of their religion, Or, the recent genocide in India that started with the insult of Sikhi in 1978. Again, criticising or disagreeing is different to insulting. Sad to see that people like you are apologists for those who insult our religion. Seeing how you're deliberately blurring the distinction between having a viewpoint and insulting.

No brushing under the carpet here, I am advocating tackling the issues just not the DAFT way you are suggesting. You are brushing the issue under the carpet of racism that has happened against Sikhs AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN. Pathetic.

How about you take your own advice and understand that 'right-wing' can be used for a political party OR a group.

I'm not going to be a hypocrite and say you can insult others religions but not ours. No religion should be insulted .......I disagree with the Brits insulting Christianity as well. I know how I would feel if someone insulted our Gurus....again, weak of you would tolerate this with typical atheist liberal views.

Again, you are so obsessed with Muslims that you have to judge on whether they want something or not. Sad to see you have so much intolerance and hate that you just want to insult someone....learn some manners and treat people as you wish to be treated yourself.

Again, lots of evidence has been provided. The only paranoid nutcase is you.........so desperately scared of Muslims that you advocate joining the EDL !!!

Stop crying and trying to demonise your own community. The point you miss out is that Sikhs tried LOTS of diplomacy before the play was aired to but were not listened to due to the intolerance and hate of those trying to through to demean our faith (people like you).

Oh really? You blabbing on about promiscuity was to do with the topic of honour?

To me it just sounded like you were angry at women for not paying any attention to you

I can't blame them...

Like I said, I didn't expect you to understand honour and what it means to Sikhs. It's your twisted mind that thinks that way.......... I don't try to make women pay attention to me because as a Sikh I look on all other women as my daughter/sister/mother. I don't believe in relationships outside of marriage or try to exploit other people's women. Again, I don't expect someone with gutter chav values like you to be able to comprehend this.

I was talking about HONOUR KILLINGS. You know... a problem that ACTUALLY EXISTS. It is the fault of the Sikh community for its continued silence on the matter and allowing these to take place for so long. When the dam broke and someone finally tackled that taboo subject, what do you EXPECT to happen? Did you expect to love what was being said?

Did you ever consider she made it as controversial as she did JUST SO that horrible subject could never be ignored again? To save lives?

The play was not about Honour Killings but about a rape that happens in a gurdwara. Nice try, AGAIN to justify an attempt to demean your religion without even admitting it was wrong.

Regarding the BNP....are you silly enough to forget that you asked a question and then start crying when you get an answer ?

You want EVIDENCE of Muslims using violence and intimidation on locals?

Enjoy trying to deny that.

They are a tiny, tiny minority of the Muslim community and were arrested....... the law is dealing with it:

http://www.theweek.co.uk/uk-news/51155/arrests-over-muslim-patrol-vigilante-videos-london

It is not a big enough problem to justify Sikhs joining the EDL - going back to my point.

That is correct. They DIDN'T burn the Koran. They never HAVE burned the Koran. If they DID burn the Koran then riots would take place somewhere and non-Muslims would likely DIE.

On the other hand Radical Muslims have burned poppies, flags, Bibles, screamed at returning soldiers. You name it they've done it, and NO Muslims have been killed for it.

So WHICH group is more unhinged?

I wouldn't stand with either - going back to my point. I never said they burnt it but the EDL members in the audience were shouting "Burn it, Burn it !!"......they were up for it alright. Again, don't start crying...my point is to show what sort of people they are and to say that Sikhs shouldn't stand with them....which you keep ignoring.

Here are videos of the EDL supporting Sikh protests trying to get Professor Bullar released.

The EDL were also present at the Sikh protest in Luton in 2012.

So tell me, who is seeking out who here? Who is desperate for assistance? Clearly it's the ordinary White British man.

What's your point ? They are desperate to get Sikhs on their side.

Just as the Kashmiri Hindu's pleaded with Guru Tegh Bahadur to save them from their forced conversions by the Mughals. The EDL have come to asks Sikhs to join them against a common oppressor. You can either pass up that offer and keep crying when Muslims annoy us, or we can nip that problem in the bud forever.

I am being LOGICAL. You are not...

You are comparing the Kashmiri Hindus with the EDL ? Man, you are desperate. The Kashmiri Hindus were being FORCIBILY CONVERTED...are the EDL ? And you're talking about logical...ha ha ! :lol2:

First of all there is no OFFICIAL copy of the Zafarnamah available, everyone agrees it may not have been reproduced perfectly.

Second, WHY would the Guru insult Islam and the average Muslim anyway? His quarrel was with Aurangzeb, who had lied to the Guru specifically. It is not the average Muslim that is to blame, and nobody has ever claimed that to be the case.

This just shows how thoroughly flawed your argument is. If the EDL have a problem with militant Islamists then why not just fight against militant Islamists !!! But they are fighting against a religion, a community. You have completely contradicted yourself AGAIN.

You're forgetting the fact that Guru Gobind himself commanded Banda Singh Bahadur to get revenge for the suffering Sikhs had undergone, STRAIGHT after writing the letter. He never told him to attack all Muslims, that would have been ridiculous.

It's Guru Gobind Singh Ji actually......shows you need to read up on your religion.

With that same thought in mind the EDL also recognises that it is Muslims who are in fact the first victims of Islam, ESPECIALLY the women. In the West Muslims are quite ignorant of what they have been born into.

"With that same thought in mind"...........what are you on about ???? It is not the same thought...Guru Sahib was fighting against Aurangzeb and not all Muslims (in fact, many helped the Sikhs at that time) and the EDL are fighting against the whole Muslim community.

Are you denying that Muhammad married a 6 year old and had sex with her when she was 9? Are you denying the words written in the Koran?

The most prized Muslims sources SAY THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED.

Are you saying that the Muslim sources are 'TYPICAL CHAV LANGUAGE'?

Is that REALLY how you want to go about this? You sound like an Islamophobe...

I don't know much about Muhammad....too busy reading about my own religion. Your language is 'typical Chav language'.

I am simply doing as my Guru says I should and SPEAKING THE TRUTH. Maybe you should try it?

Spreading hate and misinformation more like.

Well there's at least 2 mate

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzWJddc9gkA

I DO love making you look silly.

How many Muslims do you get if add one Muslim and one EX Muslim ???? There's a bit of homework for you.

I DO love making you look silly when you claim to have made me look silly but have fallen flat on your face :lol2:

And WHAT exactly do we do about these problems? You have NO ANSWERS WHATSOEVER .

No YOU are a perpetual bottom licker. You are licking Muslim bottoms. You are licking Leftist and Socialist bottoms. THEN you want to hide and cry in the corner until the problems we face go away, but they NEVER EVER will. Without action NOTHING will ever be fixed.

What I PERSONALLY am saying is we should answer the call of those who are suffering because of Islam and NEED HELP (which the EDL have asked for), whether that be the White population or our own fellow Sikhs who have been victims. We need to end that sort of rubbish forever, and we'll never get a better opportunity than this.

You are the desperate bottom licker of chavs who denies the problems in his own community and wants to hate against one community because he has a massive chip on his shoulder. The sort of action you and the EDL are proposing ?...I don't think so.

Yes, we should be proud of them. If only more were capable of that sort of strength...

Too many of us are more than happy to moan and complain and never lift a single finger. Like you for example .

Like you who doesn't want to deal with the problems in his own community. I'm moaning because I say we shouldn't join the EDL ?.....dream on chavvy boy.

And STOP dodging my questions. Tell me WHAT have ever Muslims done for us? WHAT have they done to protect us?

WHAT better ideas do you have to sort out our problems? When you should KNOW that putting pressure on governments is a numbers game.

I look forward to your reply...

I am not advocating protecting Muslims so your point is irrelevant. I am saying Sikhs shouldn't join the EDL (for the hundredth time :angry2:) I have plenty of ideas that I have already mentioned; let's make ourselves stronger.