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Gay Sikh Twitter Account An Anti-Sikh Conspriacy Against Sikhism?


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It's already been established anand karaj should not be between homosexuals but only sikh man and sikh woman.

But i just wanted to point out after research on this shabad..this shabad does not talks about homosexuals nor it condemns them to hell a) as khusrai is known as transexual/ਹਿਜੜੇ (3rd gender) not homosexuals b) mainly because shabad is talking about nature of fools by giving examples - deep water to a fish, vast sky do to the bird, cold do to stone, married life to a eunuch, sandalwood oil to dog, teaching deaf person, light before blind man, gold before herd of cattle etc at the end - by giving all these examples guru maharaj says- this is nature of fool everything he speaks is useless and wasted.

Lets not bring gurbani into this as we are inadvertently/advertently fall into misinterpertating gurbani which can be further hijacked by right wing element in our panth, uphelding maryada is good enough to ban anand karaj marriage between homosexuals.

Jonny101 please tell this person what the meaning is and how the tuks are speaking on homosexuality. Anything I say goes right past this member. Sant ji put it clear as possible and then I translated it and put it down as clear as possible, but this member is still stuck on understanding it.

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It's already been established anand karaj should not be between homosexuals but only sikh man and sikh woman.

But i just wanted to point out after research on this shabad..this shabad does not talks about homosexuals nor it condemns them to hell a) as khusrai is known as transexual/ਹਿਜੜੇ (3rd gender) not homosexuals b) mainly because shabad is talking about nature of fools by giving examples - deep water to a fish, vast sky do to the bird, cold do to stone, married life to a eunuch, sandalwood oil to dog, teaching deaf person, light before blind man, gold before herd of cattle etc at the end - by giving all these examples guru maharaj says- this is nature of fool everything he speaks is useless and wasted.

Lets not bring gurbani into this as we are inadvertently/advertently fall into misinterpertating gurbani which can be further hijacked by right wing element in our panth, uphelding maryada is good enough to ban anand karaj marriage between homosexuals.

1. Hijde are not hermaphrodites. Hijde are eunuchs. Besides these two categories, cross dressers have also traditionally been regarded as khusre.

Guru Jee in Kalki Avtar has predicted that in future there will be such a breakdown of man's moral character that man will begin to have all sorts of morally corrupt sexual relations instead of having sexual union with his wife. Homosexuality being given acceptance is just the beginning, even incest which is probably the most corrupt thing man can do will become societies norm. It is one thing for dunyaavi(worldly) people to accept this moral degradation, but Guru Ka Khalsa trying to justify this will mean even Sikhs have become morally corrupted and influenced by this Kalyugi Dunyaa.

Our mind which has accumulated many lifetimes of ਮੈਲ has forgotten it's true purpose. Many Gay supporters giving support to homosexuality say it is okay because sometimes animals also practice homosexuality so that some how makes it okay for humans to follow suit. But since when did humans look towards animals for moral guidance? our animalistic urges directs us to indulge in sexual enjoyment. But Vaheguru has made humans different from animals in the sense that we have the ability to control our urges, follow a rehit and worship Akal Purkh while animals dont. A Sikh tries to emulate the way of life of the Gurus and Bhagats. Did even one Guru, Bhagat Sahibaan practice homosexuality? NO! They were all married to women and had many children with them. That is the way our Gurus have shown us. They did not teach us to give in to our animalistic urges and forget the morality they lived by.

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Heterosexuality is as immoral as Homosexuality as it both has kaam element in it. I m not disputing that homosexuality is not natural ..its not natural due to chemical psychological imbalances in the body. Gurbani also talks about - purakh mehi naar naar mehi purakhaa boojhahu breham giaanee || ang 879, alluding towards concept/interpretation of shiv shakat and divine play of vahiguroo- chemical imbalances in body, mind of purakh in nari, mind of nari in purakh trapped in body and mind of both sex.

Main point of my post was above shabad does not talk about homosexuality, it does mention trans sexuals-khusare but even then it does not talk about trans sexuality in specific as it going through all the examples showing at the end- showing such is "O Nanak, this is the nature of a fool-everything he speaks is useless and wasted. ||1|| . I haven't check kalki avtar but will read through over the weekend.

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Heterosexuality is as immoral as Homosexuality as it both has kaam element in it. I m not disputing that homosexuality is not natural ..its not natural due to chemical psychological imbalances in the body. Gurbani also talks about - purakh mehi naar naar mehi purakhaa boojhahu breham giaanee || ang 879, alluding towards concept/interpretation of shiv shakat and divine play of vahiguroo- chemical imbalances in body, mind of purakh in nari, mind of nari in purakh trapped in body and mind of both sex.

Heterosexuality is immoral outside of the confines of marriage. That is why Guru Jee has told Sikhs to marry with a woman and live a Grahisti jeevan. Guru Jee has told Sikhs in Asa Ki vaar Bani of the importance of a woman in a man's life. Now let us look at our history. 10 Gurus(7 of Them wrote Bani) 4 Sikhs, 15 Bhagat Sahibaans, 17 Bhatts who contributed Bani, 5 Pyaras, 40 Muktas. That is around 91 Great Men in our ithihas who have made a huge impact on Sikhi. We know for a fact that not one practiced homosexuality, they are were Grahist. Because all of them(except Sri Guru Harkrishan Sahib Jee) was married to a woman and had many children. They showed us how to be a perfect father, son, husband and brother. They led by example by showing us that a marriage union is only between man and woman. They are the best of examples for Sikhs to follow. A Sikh who follows the examples of the Gurus, Bhagats and Saints will never condone or say homosexuality is "okay".

purakh mehi naar naar mehi purakhaa boojhahu breham giaanee

ਪੁਰਖ ਮਹਿ ਨਾਰਿ ਨਾਰਿ ਮਹਿ ਪੁਰਖਾ ਬੂਝਹੁ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ॥

ਅਰਥ: ਹੇ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨਾਲ ਡੂੰਘੀ ਸਾਂਝ ਰੱਖਣ ਵਾਲੇ! ਵੇਖ ਅਚਰਜ ਖੇਡ ਕਿ ਮਨੁੱਖਾਂ ਦੇ ਵੀਰਜ ਤੋਂ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀਆਂ ਪੈਦਾ ਹੁੰਦੀਆਂ ਹਨ ਤੇ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀਆਂ ਤੋਂ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਜੰਮਦੇ ਹਨ।

I am glad you quoted this tukh because it is in support of Grasti Jeevan between man and woman because Guru jee is saying here that if these two genders are not together then procreation cannot happen. If a man marries a man then it is like what Guru Jee says "ਪਥਰ ਪਾਲਾ ਿਕਆ ਕਰੇ ਖੁਸਰੇ ਿਕਆ ਘਰ ਵਾਸ". ਸੋ ਸੁਣਲੋ ਵੀਰਜੀ,ਕੋਈ ਪੁਰਸ਼ ਕਿਸੇ ਖੁਸਰੇ ਜਾਂ ਗੇ ਨਾਲ ਕੀ ਘਰ ਵਸਾਉਗਾ, ਯਾਨੀ ਘਰ ਤਾਂ ਇਕ ਨਾਰੀ ਨਾਲ ਹੀ ਵਸਦਾ ਹੈ

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Heterosexuality is immoral outside of the confines of marriage. That is why Guru Jee has told Sikhs to marry with a woman and live a Grahisti jeevan. Guru Jee has told Sikhs in Asa Ki vaar Bani of the importance of a woman in a man's life.

Agreed no qualms there. However, sikhi supports both celibacy and gristh jeevan but thats a different topic all together that can be discussed on different thread.

Now let us look at our history. 10 Gurus(7 of Them wrote Bani) 4 Sikhs, 15 Bhagat Sahibaans, 17 Bhatts who contributed Bani, 5 Pyaras, 40 Muktas. That is around 91 Great Men in our ithihas who have made a huge impact on Sikhi. We know for a fact that not one practiced homosexuality, they are were Grahist. Because all of them(except Sri Guru Harkrishan Sahib Jee) was married to a woman and had many children. They showed us how to be a perfect father, son, husband and brother. They led by example by showing us that a marriage union is only between man and woman. They are the best of examples for Sikhs to follow. A Sikh who follows the examples of the Gurus, Bhagats and Saints will never condone or say homosexuality is "okay".

Agreed again but not sure why there is any need to compare between our historical sikh/bhagats figures and homosexuals? It does not make sense atleast for me, as it cannot be compared as i perceive homosexuality as mental imbalance inside. Homosexuality is more of body chemical imblances and pyschological issue in mind/mental issue in the mind just like as there are physical + mind issues within human, its all under maya. In fact every action done within in realm of panj chor/maya is consider dosh of mind- conscious and sub conscious mind- antish karan. So we are all under same boat both hetros and homos.
Regarding psychological imbalances i m not expert in that field. However listen to bhai jagraj singh basic of sikh video on homosexuality. It seems like he has done bit of research on this.

ਪੁਰਖ ਮਹਿ ਨਾਰਿ ਨਾਰਿ ਮਹਿ ਪੁਰਖਾ ਬੂਝਹੁ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ॥

ਅਰਥ: ਹੇ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨਾਲ ਡੂੰਘੀ ਸਾਂਝ ਰੱਖਣ ਵਾਲੇ! ਵੇਖ ਅਚਰਜ ਖੇਡ ਕਿ ਮਨੁੱਖਾਂ ਦੇ ਵੀਰਜ ਤੋਂ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀਆਂ ਪੈਦਾ ਹੁੰਦੀਆਂ ਹਨ ਤੇ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀਆਂ ਤੋਂ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਜੰਮਦੇ ਹਨ।

I am glad you quoted this tukh because it is in support of Grasti Jeevan between man and woman because Guru jee is saying here that if these two genders are not together then procreation cannot happen. If a man marries a man then it is like what Guru Jee says "ਪਥਰ ਪਾਲਾ ਿਕਆ ਕਰੇ ਖੁਸਰੇ ਿਕਆ ਘਰ ਵਾਸ". ਸੋ ਸੁਣਲੋ ਵੀਰਜੀ,ਕੋਈ ਪੁਰਸ਼ ਕਿਸੇ ਖੁਸਰੇ ਜਾਂ ਗੇ ਨਾਲ ਕੀ ਘਰ ਵਸਾਉਗਾ, ਯਾਨੀ ਘਰ ਤਾਂ ਇਕ ਨਾਰੀ ਨਾਲ ਹੀ ਵਸਦਾ ਹੈ

That could be one entry level interpretation. However this deep tukh cannot be confined to one meaning, there is lot more deeper meaning behind this tukh, it talks about khed of vahiguroo creation with maya (which includes chemical imbalances/psychological mindset of homosexuals as nothing is outside of maya), also shiv shakat- only bhramgyani who is outside of realm of maya can understand this khed of vahiguroo ji, read the whole pauri contextualize with rest of the pauri its alluding towards khed of vahiguroo on much more deeper context of vahiguroo maya khed where both hetro and homo are affected..!!
We don't believe in christian concept of vahiguroo that there is a shaitan and there is vahiguroo two seperate entities, everything indeed comes from vahiguroo's own maya and gunas trai gun (sato, rajo, tamo) and beautiful vahiguroo only (supreme consciousness) is indeed only one behind gunas and behind unique divine khed so so much sri guru gobind singh ji in sri akaal ustat, declared the below about most sensitive topic so there is no dualism left at all-:
ਕਹੂੰ ਬੇਦ ਬਾਨੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਕੋਕ ਕੀ ਕਹਾਨੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਰਾਜਾ ਕਹੂੰ ਰਾਨੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਨਾਰ ਕੇ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰ ਹੋ ॥
Somewhere Thou art the vedic hymns and somewhere the story of the elucidator of the mystery of love; somewhere Thou art Thyself the king, the queen and also various types of woman.
Kok kahani is kama sutra stories/mystery of love
Everything is a khel of vahiguroo, both hetro, homo, transexuals are in the realm of maya, dice is rolled as play by vahiguroo ji whoever gets the riddle and understand the khel by being nirlaip from maya (Gurmukh maya vich udasi - nirlaip) -sexual orientation labelling have nothing to do with it be it homo, hetro, transexual from spiritual stand point as gurmukh maya vich udasi state has everything to do with it... surely from sikh maryada stand point- anand karaj should be only between sikh man and sikh woman.
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I suppose it boils down to what type of person you want to be.

Everyones INTEPRETATION of bani is different you do not have the entire say so on what is and what isnt maryada etc.

Now although i believe that a marriage in front of guru ji should be between man and a woman that is my PERSONAL interpretation and if said gay sikh was to question me i would advice him of the reasons why i BELIEVE that this is the reason.

Sikhi is personal and for too long we have had a sant ji says this and sant ji intepreted this in his katha and thats what i believe we have become sheep to these "sants" or these more "learned" people and then we wonder why the youth leave sikhi in droves because they are forced out for asking questions. They barely know the basics because its so regimented now by the patronising people who run our gurdwara and committees.

Read bani intepret for yourself be happy and everyone else who says no this is wrong or this isnt the correct way of doing this (not just in this issue) let them bark as they will never affect your life! Daya, Nimrata and Pyare are just some of the qualities that the majority of posters seem to miss on this forum (discounting Questioner/Neosingh/Mehtab Singh who always seem to exhibit these virtues and as such are the posters on this forum who actually change peoples minds or in other words bring people to the light)

This drum is always beaten when a person wants to avoid Gurmat Veechar. Let's look into history and see if this "everyone interprets Gurbani differently and we can personalize Sikhi" really passes the test. Surely we have Sikh history that gives us concrete examples of what is described as personal Sikhi and what is described as Gurmat. I am going to pick Sakhis that are well know in the Sikh community.

Take the Sakhi of Bhai Kanhaiya ji. Singhs accused Bhai Kanhaiya ji of helping the enemy laying in the battlefield hurt by giving them water. Bhai Sahib's actions were reported to Satguru and Satguru called Bhai Sahib to his court to be judged. Satguru asked Bhai Sahib why are you helping the enemy that we fought against. Bhai Sahib explains that he did not see friend or foe laying on the dirt with wounds, but he saw Akal Purakh in each of them. After hearing this Satguru told the whole court that this is the true actions of Satguru's Sikh because he understood the teachings of Gurbani correctly.

Is the above response a personal interpretation of Gurbani that Bhai Sahib gave to Satguru? No, it was a Gurmat reponse that comes from Gurbani. Which side was expressing personal intrepretations of Sikhi? It was the Singhs that accused Bhai Sahib ji of helping the enemy. They could have given a whole lot of personal reasons and Satguru rejected every single one of them. Personalization of Sikhi was rejected along with personal intrepretations of Sikhi.

Take another Sakhi of Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj's children and Bhai Lehna Ji. Satguru commanded many tasks to his two sons and Bhai Lehna ji. However, every time Satguru's two sons had a personal reason to say no, this is not logical. This does not fit into what my mind is thinking. Bhai Sahib did the opposite. Bhai Sahib having the teachings of Gurmat engraved on his forehead would get up without questioning or doubting and complete the task. Gurbani tells us for doubting and defying Satguru's orders the two sons are worse than manmukhs. They had their personal interpretations of what is Gurbani (what Satguru is ordering) saying. Satguru rejected their interpretations.

This personal Sikhi idea is a new concept made by urban Sikhs to follow the ego. Just for everyone's info, even before listening to Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji's Katha on the tuks which I presented, I understood what Satguru is saying. If people don't want to except Scholars on the topic of Gurbani, then they should curse Satguru for doing katha of Gurbani and then telling Baba Deep Singh ji and Bhai Mani Singh ji to continue the teaching of Katha of Gurbani and giving correct interpretations.

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Sikhi is personal and for too long we have had a sant ji says this and sant ji intepreted this in his katha and thats what i believe we have become sheep to these "sants" or these more "learned" people and then we wonder why the youth leave sikhi in droves because they are forced out for asking questions. They barely know the basics because its so regimented now by the patronising people who run our gurdwara and committees.

Because of Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji Khalsa, Sant Baba Kartar Singh ji Khalsa picked Sant Baba Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa as Jathedar and he drove home the Dharam Yudh Morcha. Because of Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji Khalsa today we have learned Gurmukhs that are teaching proper pronunciation of Gurbani to countless youths all around the world.

You cannot even be the dust under Sant ji's feet. Sant ji went from village to village teaching sangat to only bow to Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj as Guru. Sant ji discussed with Hindu Sadhus, Udhasis, Nirmale, among others and brought them to Gurmat; to Satguru's feet. Countless Sikhs took Amrit after listening to his Katha of Gurbani. Ever heard of Shaheed Jathedar Bhai Gurdev Singh Ji Kaunke? Sant ji through the blessing of Satguru transferred normal Sikhs into Saint Soldiers.

Sant ji brought a Brahmin to his knees who challenged Sant ji on doing Katha on just IK Onkar. The Katha went on for weeks and there was no end in sight. The Brahmin's ego was destroyed.

Before you run your mouth on Sant ji, go to your local university and close it down as you don't need learned invdividuals. Yet you hang your worldly degree proudly in a frame for all to see. This is how pathetic you are. Just because Satguru did not give Baba Deep Singh ji Khalsa a piece of paper certifying him does not mean we don't have a formal system to learn Gurbani. Again you really show how big of a imbecile you are.

And to add the icing to the imbecile cake. If we don't need to listen to Gurmukhs, then you can't call those who use Sikhi as a tool for terrorism bad. For their interpretation is just as correct as your stupidity. No benchmark means everything goes. So next time Sikhs are called terrorist because of 1985 air india bombing, you have to agree that was Sikhi.

I really enjoying showing how stupid you urban Sikhs are.

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Because of Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji Khalsa, Sant Baba Kartar Singh ji Khalsa picked Sant Baba Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa as Jathedar and he drove home the Dharam Yudh Morcha. Because of Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji Khalsa today we have learned Gurmukhs that are teaching proper pronunciation of Gurbani to countless youths all around the world.

You cannot even be the dust under Sant ji's feet. Sant ji went from village to village teaching sangat to only bow to Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj as Guru. Sant ji discussed with Hindu Sadhus, Udhasis, Nirmale, among others and brought them to Gurmat; to Satguru's feet. Countless Sikhs took Amrit after listening to his Katha of Gurbani. Ever heard of Shaheed Jathedar Bhai Gurdev Singh Ji Kaunke? Sant ji through the blessing of Satguru transferred normal Sikhs into Saint Soldiers.

Sant ji brought a Brahmin to his knees who challenged Sant ji on doing Katha on just IK Onkar. The Katha went on for weeks and there was no end in sight. The Brahmin's ego was destroyed.

Before you run your mouth on Sant ji, go to your local university and close it down as you don't need learned invdividuals. Yet you hang your worldly degree proudly in a frame for all to see. This is how pathetic you are. Just because Satguru did not give Baba Deep Singh ji Khalsa a piece of paper certifying him does not mean we don't have a formal system to learn Gurbani. Again you really show how big of a imbecile you are.

And to add the icing to the imbecile cake. If we don't need to listen to Gurmukhs, then you can't call those who use Sikhi as a tool for terrorism bad. For their interpretation is just as correct as your stupidity. No benchmark means everything goes. So next time Sikhs are called terrorist because of 1985 air india bombing, you have to agree that was Sikhi.

I really enjoying showing how stupid you urban Sikhs are.

I recommend you watch a film called "The Believer". It is based on a true story of a Jewish guy who so hates Judaism that he becomes a Nazi - but by the end of the film, comes to terms with who he is and accepts his Jewish faith.

It may help you come to terms with your views on homosexuality.

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