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dholki

Anand Karaj...is This Acceptable?

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I was at an anand karaj at weekend in midlands.

Before lava the bride and groom were asked to stand in maharajas hazoori and the registrar asked them to repeat the 'wedding vows'.

Then the couple exchanged rings right there while al sangat was sat in darbar hall.

Then the anand karaj was performed.

I have been thinking about it all weekend. I"m thinking of contacting the Gurdwara to consider holding this farce in another room after the anand karaj.

Any thoughts on this...am i making it a big issue for nothing?

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I was at an anand karaj at weekend in midlands.

Before lava the bride and groom were asked to stand in maharajas hazoori and the registrar asked them to repeat the 'wedding vows'.

Then the couple exchanged rings right there while al sangat was sat in darbar hall.

Then the anand karaj was performed.

I have been thinking about it all weekend. I"m thinking of contacting the Gurdwara to consider holding this farce in another room after the anand karaj.

Any thoughts on this...am i making it a big issue for nothing?

This use to happen in a separate room either before the laava or after. Never heard of anyone conducting it there and then. Seems a bit strange. But ask around it could be the norm these days. Have a word with someone at the Gurdwara before kicking up a fuss.

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x Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh x

Not saying this is Right or Wrong...

But I've seen this plenty of times in a Darbaar before.

Yes...back in the day, the Civil Ceremony would be conducted in a room within the Gurdwara Sahib Complex.

Now though...I've seen the Full on Civil Ceremony (as you've seen this weekend) in the Darbaar.

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No offence...

But why do you see it as an issue?

Is it a breach of Satkaar you think? I'm just guessing...but curious to know what your thoughts may be.

x Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh x

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Today's anand karaj in the west are losing their traditional touch and turning more and more Christianised marriage ceremonies.

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^^^ one of main differences Veerji with some of these secular modern Punjabi ones is that even the Christians don't waste $100,000 on a wedding when it could be used for better purposes like helping the poor Sikhs with nothing in Punjab or even a deposit on a home would be better than just flushing it away as alcohol, dead chicken and dj expenses

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I wouldn't say it is wrong but it's a very christianised/westernised way of doing things.

When my sister got married, they did the marriage certificate and the ring thing in a small room before the lavan. It wasn't given any importance over and above the lavan.

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I wouldn't say it is wrong but it's a very christianised/westernised way of doing things.

When my sister got married, they did the marriage certificate and the ring thing in a small room before the lavan. It wasn't given any importance over and above the lavan.

I think the above bolded statement is what should be given more consideration here.

In the UK and most other countries a formal exchange of vows has to be conducted so that the 'legally' binding document -the certificate of marriage- can be officially issued.

No one to my knowledge has ever given this more importance than anand karaj- meaning that they are not to concerned when it happens whether before the anand karaj or after because it does not overlap the anand karaj in any way.

They used to only conduct this at the registration office and the witnesses and couple both had to attend at the given time. What happened is that because your witness, which could be brother, sister, uncle, chacha, thyaa..etc... had to be there also then we Indians were forced to invite chachji and kids because chacha would be witness, this leads to forced invitation of all brothers and sisters and then brother in-laws because we Punjabis moan too much if someone invites our brother and excludes us..

Then with all these extra invitations comes extra costs and the usual crap of gifts and blah blah...blah.. (all Mammat actions!)

However since the change of registration laws because people like to get married on beaches and parks or other exotic places, the requirement for attending the registration office no longer stands.

This has been at advantage for us because they recognize the gurdwara as a suitable area for exchange of vows to be conducted !!

In my personal opinion as a Sikh, I actually have the opposite view !

I actually think it is good that the vows be exchanged in the presence of Guruji. I would rather the vows be spoken in the gurdwara than in some registration office or on top of some pub.

Saying this we have to remember that NO EXTRA importance is given to this over anand karaj as mentioned by Wickedwarrior above. SO in my opinion it is absolutely acceptable and I welcome it and recommend other new couples don't opt for the register office option.!!!

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Leaving the Sikhi aspect out of it for the moment technically what happened makes the marriage null and void. In other words there would be no need for a divorce, decree nisi, anullment or anything. In the eyes of the law no marriage took place that day because the strict rule of a civil marriage (i.e not one conducted in a church) is that it cannot have any religious overtone whatsoever. For a civil marriage to be considered valid by the law it must by definition be 100% in a non-religious setting. The fact that it took place in the darbar hall makes it null and void. Its only a matter of time before one of these cases comes before the Family courts and sets precedence. With local authorities habitually granting registrar licences to unpadh pradhans of Gurdwaras who have little or no understanding of the law, its an accident waiting to happen.

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Its wrong to try and copy Christian wedding ceremonies, but as long as the bride and groom were Sikh that's what matters. I recently went to a wedding between a Hindu girl and Sikh boy and although I disagreed on them getting married in the gudwara in front of SGGS, I didn't say anything because sadly it was my family's close friend (the Hindu girl).

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and so goes the circle of empathy ^^ if no one says anything because its always going to be someones family friend then it will always happen!

glad to know that respect for the anand karaj goes as far as thinking about telling someone what they are doing is wrong!

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and so goes the circle of empathy ^^ if no one says anything because its always going to be someones family friend then it will always happen!

glad to know that respect for the anand karaj goes as far as thinking about telling someone what they are doing is wron

If you put yourself in my shoes, imagine no one ever talking to you and your family again because you ruined their wedding. They family have done a lot for us, they are really good people, even if they are Hindu

I will talk to the committee the next time I visit that gudwara, it was the Havelock Road In Southall by the way. I was a bit surprised that it was taking place to be honest. And the Giani who was conducting the ceremony did it English.

Additionally, I find it odd how when its a Sikh girl and non Sikh boy, everyone makes a big fuss. But when its the other way round no one batter's an eyelid.

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I've spoken to a UK Gurdwara about this (although it was a couple of years ago). The registry part is conducted in the Gurdwara only via an agreement/contract with the local council. This stipulates where and when during the marriage day the registry vows and certificate signatures are done.

Having said that, although ive seen the vows and the signatures take place in front of the Guru Sahib many time after the anand karaj, I've never seen/heard about rings being exchanged in front of the Guru sahib.

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I've spoken to a UK Gurdwara about this (although it was a couple of years ago). The registry part is conducted in the Gurdwara only via an agreement/contract with the local council. This stipulates where and when during the marriage day the registry vows and certificate signatures are done

Thats exactly my point. The Law is strict and clear on this issue. Licences can only be issued to places of worship (non Anglican, Jewish or Quaker) to conduct Civil Marriages if they can show that the room the civil marriage will take place in is clearly seperate and distinct from the actual religious premises. i.e. it MUST be a seperate room from the actual main hall.

There are no exceptions.

Trust me, if either the bride or groom from this marriage or any other bride or groom married under similar circumstances wishes to divorce and have their day in court they could easily have their 'marriage' declared a 'non-marriage' that never took place in the first place. Personally, I see it as a good opportunity for someone to sue those money-loving Indian agents that control the Southall gurdwara and hit them where it hurts.

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I remember listing to katha once i think it was giani pinderpal jee. He said that the most beadbi occurs during sikh weddings.

From start to finish you see normally respectful sikh families abandon their sikh principles to pursue hindu/punjabi culture.

You see men and women in darbar hall talking or back slapping congratulations to one another....

A family wanted to perform a chunii ceromony on girl in darbar hall recently.

But ive never seen rings or vowes exchanged in darbar hall before.

I now hate attending any family weddings...

I remember listing to katha once i think it was giani pinderpal jee. He said that the most beadbi occurs during sikh weddings.

From start to finish you see normally respectful sikh families abandon their sikh principles to pursue hindu/punjabi culture.

You see men and women in darbar hall talking or back slapping congratulations to one another....

A family wanted to perform a chunii ceromony on girl in darbar hall recently.

But ive never seen rings or vowes exchanged in darbar hall before.

I now hate attending any family weddings...

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