Was Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale A Congress Agent?

[N30S1NGH]

Very good sensible discussion here.

Just wanted to add to onlyfive veer point:

Santa Singh wanted to take out the Nirankaris after they killed 13 Sikhs. Sant ji had a different way to handle it than Santa Singh and the latter took an offence to it.

I don't think baba santa singh took offense to sant ji way of handing it differently because if we read history there were disagreements/difference of opinions between different misals all time..but rather this incident was further capitalized by akaali to cause nasty rift between budda dal nihangs and damdami taksal and they totally succeeded to create more divisions....after that they were two more secret high level meeting between budda dal and taksal- both failed to come up with any compromise and at the end taksal was advised by budda dal that they will back them up if dharam yudh was carried from mehta ....Alliance between taksal and nihangs during that time was worst night mare for gov't/ political type people in garb of sikh bana, gov't obviously heavily infiltrated within all sikh groups.

[isingh1699]

for me its plain and simple Sant Jarnail Singh JI Khalsa is the Greatest Sikh in modern times

Agreed in the modern era in terms of devout dedication to Sikhi Sant Ji was one of the greatest Gursikhs in modern times. However, one can think that and respectfully disagree with the political approach taken by Sant Ji in dealing with Congress - as we see that Congress successfully achieved every objective they wanted to in 1977-1997 and used Damdami Taksal in the 1980 elections.

Longowala is a traitor and a coward and died a dogs death

I think it's truly sad that you genuinely feel that way Veerji but hey you have a right to your opinion.

I've outined why I disagree with your assessment.

for me the gursikhs who fought in Dharam Yuodh are my brothers and sisters,

For me I would classify myself as not even equal to the dust below the feet of our Panth's shaheeds since Indira Gandhi started her Genocide of the Sikhs.

To count ourself as true siblings of our Shaheeds and Panth sewaks and Dharmi fauji's we need to have the level of self-sacrifice and dedication to Sarbat Da Bhalla that Bhai Rajoana Ji and other great Gursikhs have shown.

Khalistan Zindabad

Sloganeering never achieves nothing. When Sant Ji never asked for Khalistan but others who sought to undermine him did in 1980 ... they did so on behalf of Congress, simply to try stop the Akali push under Longowal Ji for the Anandpur Sahib resolution. 30 years of Nagar Kirtans with the same slogans yet we can't do what's needed at the ground level, in terms of community seva which Longowal Ji did so effectively and undeniably. Which is why the people called him Sant Longowal and lakhs bravely attended his funeral.

All of us need to stamp out drugs, alcohol, abortion clinics, birderi and illiteracy in Punjab if we care about our Panth.

You agree that an oath before Maharaj cannot be broken, so how can you say Longowal was following Gurmat?

Because politics is never as black and white as you perceive it to be Veerji. My reading of it in retrospect is that Longowal Ji knew that the accord was merely a ceasefire signed by him to avert the Genocide of Sikh naujawaan he clearly saw coming after the events of 1984 and prior to the accord. Nowhere did he give up or surrender his burning desire for the implementation of the Anandpur Sahib Resolution. I truly believe that Longowal thought he could buy the Qaum time to recover from the shock of 1984 and that with the Unity we had we could re-build to obtain the Anandpur Sahib resolution if the judgements did not come our way.

Gurmat means the person is following the teachings of the Guru and stands by the oath.

Gurmat is far greater than simply following teachings (which have different interpretations according to one's political and spiritual perspective) Veerji. One of Gurmat's fundamental essential components is saving the lives of the innocents. Quite clearly, that was Longowal Ji's aim. To this day none of Sant Longowal's detractors have ever said he took a single rupee in his life - because he never did. He was 100% Sikh to the core.

Longowal walked out with his hands up and did not even fight to protect the Sanctity of Sri Akal Takht and Sri Harmandir Sahib.

Veerji Longowal walked out in order to negotiate an end to the crisis + encirclement of Sri Harmandir Sahib by Indira Gandhi's forces.

It is politically naive, in the extreme, for young Sikhs in the Diaspora to not grasp that politics doesn't run that way and it's part of the reason Indira Gandhi succeeded with her aim in June 1984. Because we Sikhs were politically too predictable due to literally the black and white interpretations drawn.

He sat in a room and waited till the firing stopped to come out as a coward.

Did Longowal and Tohra go inside brandishing AK47's? These were elected politicians Veerji. Can Jagdeep Singh MPP stroll into Rexdale Gurdwara with an AK47 even if he wanted to? Do you think they would not fight if they had to? I firmly believe they would, were they armed in the first instance, and that they had every desire to resolve the crisis without further bloodshed. Longowal and Tohra were never cowards. If Jagdeep Singh walks out of Malton Gurdwara when the RCMP have it surrounded would you call him a coward or would you accept that he is serving the Panth as a politician and that negotiation to avoid further bloodshed is not an indication of cowardise but of realism.

You call Nihang Singhs cowards and call Longowal a hero! This shows your bias.

I have never once said anything of the sort about our Panth's Nihang Singhs! Can you show me a single sentence where Veerji? But no I don't respect alcohol and bhang addicted Nangs and I make no apology for having zero respect for Ajit Sin and Santa Sin and their like. Longowal was 100% for Sikhi till the day he died. Santa Sin openly accepted money from Indira Gandhi and Ajit Sin was a Nang who got what he deserved.

Nihang Singhs fought right beside Sant ji

Please show me where I criticise sincere Nihang Singhs Veerji (because I don't).

and atleast Santa Singh wanted to take out the Nirankaris after they killed 13 Sikhs.

Do u know why Santa Sin wanted to do that? To help Indira Gandhi paint Sikhs as the bad guys and strengthen the Narkdhari diversion tactics used by Indira in order to weaken the Akali Dal as her political opponents. 30 years prior to the murder of our brave AKJ shaheeds the equivalent of if 7million had been killed today had occurred in the Pakistani Genocide of Sikhs. Potentially if we have a flare-up with the Radha Swami's given past history we are capable of forgetting about 1984 and focussing on the Dhillon family's business empire. So what would have been the clever way round it in 1978? Proclaiming to the world that we going to kill the enemy dog so-called living Guru (that himself was a dog stroked by Congress money) or taking the enemy out cold and simple without any frivolous talk surrounding it regarding gold etc? Gursikhs don't need financial motivation to deliver justice.

Sant ji had a different way to handle it than Santa Singh and the latter took an offence to it.

Sant Ji was a sincere Gurmukh. Santa Sin was Indira Gandhi's snitch who shouldn't be associated with Guru ki Ladli Fauj.

Nevertheless Nihang Singhs still stood beside Sant ji and fought to protect Sri Akal Takht Sahib.

I have every respect for each and every one of our shaheeds. Under attack, we only have one jathebandi - the Khalsa Panth.

It should be the case of simply one united Qaum (regardless of jathebandi/samparda/political persuasion) all of the time.

In Sikhi their is no politics without spirituality. Anandpur Sahib Resolution started because Satguru has blessed everyone with equal rights. Miri and Piri cannot be separated and are not separated. Before starting anything involving Miri Satguru did Ardas and took an Hukamnama. Which clearly shows Sikh politics and spirituality are tied into each other. Lastly Sikh politics cannot go against the spiritual teachings of Satguru.

I 100% agree with the above paragraph Veerji. However, in an era in which no Gursikh has faced down 125,000 individually we need to get realistic and understand that politics is not a one way street. All Sikh demands in India, Canada, UK or elsewhere will never be met automatically or immediately. There has to be a degree of reality built into our mentality to allow for political delays and short term compromises to achieve the goals our Panth sets for Sarbath Da Bhalla. Let's just remember here that for every Sikh in the World there are more than 250 non-Sikhs. I don't believe Sant Longowal went against Gurmat by signing a ceasefire with the terrorist GOI in order to try prevent the Genocide of a whole generation of Sikh naujawaan.

in garb of sikh bana, gov't obviously heavily infiltrated within all sikh groups.

Agreed Veerji. Santa Sin openly worked for Congress doing his bank account's seva. Damdami Taksal campaigned for Congress in the 1980 general elections and facilitated terrorist Indira Gandhi to become Prime Minister in 1980. Barnala and Badal everyone knows what they are all about. What's clear is that Indira had her dogs infiltrating every one of our groups. So when one group thinks it acts holier than another or thinks it has divine right to guide the Panth without the consensus of Sarbat Khalsa then that's a recipe for disaster. We are all one Qaum ... jathebandi, samparda, political affiliation have no real meaning without the united actions by all of us with different opinions within the diversity of the Panth standing shoulder to shoulder and fighting down drugs, alcohol, illiteracy, abortion and biraderi amongst some of the Genocidal problems facing our Qaum right here right now.

To that end, I would request all respected Veers on this thread to add your support on the dgp alam conversion thread to get books out to educate the poor kids back in Punjab via Khalsa Aid's Punjab Underprivileged Rural Empowerment program.

http://focuspunjab.org/pure.html