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Sikh Body Blames Former Dgp Of Conversion


Singh, Mahan
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^ SikhKosh Veerji i respect your opinions and reasoning why you hold those views.

1. Agreed, the higher the Sikh percentage is in Punjab the better. But rather than achieving that by transferring all non-Punjab based Sikhs to Punjab and thereby by making the 99% land area of India a Sikh-free zone where it could become virtually impossible to establish Sikhi ever again after Khalistan, i believe a higher percentage of Punjabi's can become Sikh if we only explain the logic of one God, avoiding superstitious beliefs + encourage the HP population to visit Gurdwara's again more and then accept them as sehajdhari Sikhs as well as highlighting the deep link of Bihar with Sikhi. Many Bihari's in Punjab have become Sikh already but these are sadly the exception rather than the rule. If we start to encourage these non-Thakur caste Bihari's towards Sikhi and see them as new potential Sikhs then the whole demographic equation in Punjab will change.

2. Agreed, given that Sikhi has effectively not grown much since the 1940's Rehat Maryada was adopted that defined Dr Ambedkar and crores of sehajdhari Sikhs as non-Sikhs, it now seems a tall order to even get 1% of UP, MP + Bihar to come to Sikhi as even that would be a phenomenal 3.75million people (new Sikhs). But if we can accept non-Punjabi sehajdhari's as Sikhs then there's no reason why as logic+education increases that hundreds of millions of people could wholesale simply reject the lies of Hinduism to embrace Sikhi even though it would be unrealistic to expect all of them to be Amritdhari.

3. I think when the 1940's Rehat Maryada defined them as non-Sikh and when Congress made a concerted effort to break them away from Sikhi (by witholding benefits unless they declared themselves as Hindu) then there was little they could do when we ourselves were responsible for declaring them non-Sikhs in the first place. We can't cry over spilt milk now but what we can do is correct the mistake of defining sehajdhari's (especially non-Punjabi ones) as Hindu's.

3.1a Agreed that Sikh percentage would go up in Punjab (but I believe it can go up via HP+Bihari's coming to Sikhi) and without wiping out and reducing the Sikh population outside of Punjab. If the Buddhists had taken this approach when they came under threat in India there would never be so many Buddhists in China, Japan, Thailand etc today. The Jewish ethnic religion + small area for Jews to all live in concept simply doesn't apply to us as we are a non-ethnic religion for the benefit of all humanity. Present day Eastern Punjab is only 14% of the land area of the original undivided Punjab. 99% of the Indian land area cannot be ethnically cleansed of Sikhs as the RSS would be happy to get us to voluntarily do that. Sikhi is the biggest thing they fear, were it ever to take hold amongst the Indian masses.

3.1b Agreed but the solution to that is 100% of Sikhs should be shastardhari and tyaar bar tyaar at all times given 1947 + 1984.

3.1c Agreed that bigger united Gurdwara's with one per area make sense rather than 25 competing Gurdwara per pind so that corrupt non-Sikh Mahants can have a monopoly on every biraderi-based golak but the human cost of a repeat of 1947 partition is incalculable. Cheaper and better for Sikhi's long term growth outside of Punjab to leave non-Punjabi Sikhs there where they are currently, rather than paying for the cost of re-settling 5 million plus non-Punjabi Sikhs back into the tiny part of original Punjab where we are overall a slight majority today. Forget about religion for a second but look at what the English, Scottish and Irish people achieved by leaving their tiny countries and settling in the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. The money spent re-settling non-Punjabi Sikhs into Punjab would be far better spent translating Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj into all local Indian languages with audio tapes and radio stations in local non-Punjabi languages so that the message Congress has worked to hide away (with our elitist+ignorant assistance) can get out there.

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^ SikhKosh Veerji i respect your opinions and reasoning why you hold those views.

1. Agreed, the higher the Sikh percentage is in Punjab the better. But rather than achieving that by transferring all non-Punjab based Sikhs to Punjab and thereby by making the 99% land area of India a Sikh-free zone where it could become virtually impossible to establish Sikhi ever again after Khalistan, i believe a higher percentage of Punjabi's can become Sikh if we only explain the logic of one God, avoiding superstitious beliefs + encourage the HP population to visit Gurdwara's again more and then accept them as sehajdhari Sikhs as well as highlighting the deep link of Bihar with Sikhi. Many Bihari's in Punjab have become Sikh already but these are sadly the exception rather than the rule. If we start to encourage these non-Thakur caste Bihari's towards Sikhi and see them as new potential Sikhs then the whole demographic equation in Punjab will change.

2. Agreed, given that Sikhi has effectively not grown much since the 1940's Rehat Maryada was adopted that defined Dr Ambedkar and crores of sehajdhari Sikhs as non-Sikhs, it now seems a tall order to even get 1% of UP, MP + Bihar to come to Sikhi as even that would be a phenomenal 3.75million people (new Sikhs). But if we can accept non-Punjabi sehajdhari's as Sikhs then there's no reason why as logic+education increases that hundreds of millions of people could wholesale simply reject the lies of Hinduism to embrace Sikhi even though it would be unrealistic to expect all of them to be Amritdhari.

3. I think when the 1940's Rehat Maryada defined them as non-Sikh and when Congress made a concerted effort to break them away from Sikhi (by witholding benefits unless they declared themselves as Hindu) then there was little they could do when we ourselves were responsible for declaring them non-Sikhs in the first place. We can't cry over spilt milk now but what we can do is correct the mistake of defining sehajdhari's (especially non-Punjabi ones) as Hindu's.

3.1a Agreed that Sikh percentage would go up in Punjab (but I believe it can go up via HP+Bihari's coming to Sikhi) and without wiping out and reducing the Sikh population outside of Punjab. If the Buddhists had taken this approach when they came under threat in India there would never be so many Buddhists in China, Japan, Thailand etc today. The Jewish ethnic religion + small area for Jews to all live in concept simply doesn't apply to us as we are a non-ethnic religion for the benefit of all humanity. Present day Eastern Punjab is only 14% of the land area of the original undivided Punjab. 99% of the Indian land area cannot be ethnically cleansed of Sikhs as the RSS would be happy to get us to voluntarily do that. Sikhi is the biggest thing they fear, were it ever to take hold amongst the Indian masses.

3.1b Agreed but the solution to that is 100% of Sikhs should be shastardhari and tyaar bar tyaar at all times given 1947 + 1984.

3.1c Agreed that bigger united Gurdwara's with one per area make sense rather than 25 competing Gurdwara per pind so that corrupt non-Sikh Mahants can have a monopoly on every biraderi-based golak but the human cost of a repeat of 1947 partition is incalculable. Cheaper and better for Sikhi's long term growth outside of Punjab to leave non-Punjabi Sikhs there where they are currently, rather than paying for the cost of re-settling 5 million plus non-Punjabi Sikhs back into the tiny part of original Punjab where we are overall a slight majority today. Forget about religion for a second but look at what the English, Scottish and Irish people achieved by leaving their tiny countries and settling in the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. The money spent re-settling non-Punjabi Sikhs into Punjab would be far better spent translating Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj into all local Indian languages with audio tapes and radio stations in local non-Punjabi languages so that the message Congress has worked to hide away (with our elitist+ignorant assistance) can get out there.

1. Don't mind but you should read more about demographics esp those of Sikhs brother. Do you think 2500 Sikligars in Tamil Nadu can turn it into Sikh majority? Why not play safe by moving them to Panchkula where Sikh percentage can go from 7.7% to 8.2% with only 2500 Sikhs more? Bro play safe, why do you keep assuming converting people outside of Punjab will be so easy? I have talked to people working for Sikligars in UP and the Hindu villages hate Sardars coming to the villages repeatedly. Yes there have been converts but not enough to make a huge minorty in the states wiht 100/200 million people.

2. I have been advocating this for a long time: encouraging conversion to Sikhi in Sehajdhari form. Even if they don't take amrit, theres many chances of them marrying into Gursikh families.

3. I don't agree with removing SGGS out of Sindhi 'Mandirs'. Instead we should go and preach there and remove the idols.

4. Sikhi is not an ethnic religion but our nucleus as made by the Gurus is Punjab. Guru Nanak Sahib made Sikhs in the whole world but settled down in Kartarpur. The subsequent Gurus set up model communities in Amritsar, Tarn Taran, Kiratpur, Anandpur etc and besides that its much easier to get a majority in the north than waiting for all Dalits to convert to Sikhi (massive parchaar, too many years is needed for that).

5. You have misunderstood my point again, they will not only be moved to Punjab but neighbouring areas of Haryana and Rajasthan.

Secondly your mistake is that you think we will spend alot of money moving them to Punjab... But brother 5 million poor Sikhs of ignored tribes ARE already poor and EVEN if you resettle them there you'll have to spend money on buildings (they live in huts), gurdwaras and education. With the constant fear of discrimination, intimidation and attack.

In MP they discriminated our newly joined brothers and sisters openly, ki karlea appan? Apna garh houga tahi phatte chakange veer

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^ Firstly SikhKosh Veerji it's great to see that you actually give a damn about this issue and have some good idea's.

Shame that those that set the agenda in the SGPC don't seem to have the same sincerity in pushing the Qaum forward as you.

1. In terms of "playing it safe" your strategy is absolutely right but the inevitable consequence of that will be that Sikhi will be effectively restricted to 1% of India's land area in present day state of Punjab and virtually finished forever elsewhere in India. We're 7.7% in Panchkula (where the majority will never wish to be part of Khalistan) but even in Chandigarh we are only a one in five minority! So I agree with u that we have a lot of work to do and encouraging more people towards Sikhi is not going to be easy when are 1,250million people in India but only about 1.8% are classified Sikhs at the moment. And even within that tiny Sikh percentage we are stupid enough to divide ourselves within that on false boundaries such as biraderi, sehajdhari's declared non-Sikhs, Raagmala, Larrivaar, Triya Charitar etc

2 and 3 we agree 100% upon

4. Veerji I think our base will remain Punjab for the foreseeable future but we need to expand our horizons and just as Lahore was our capital before there's no reason why Khalsa Raj can't be over all of India (for the protection of all innocent people oppressed by the current Delhi bureacrats) with the capital at Delhi. Remember Veerji the Brahmins have lost control of India nowadays but when they ran it as the biggest caste and most over-represented they were only 4% of the population. There are about twice as many Brahmins as there are Sikhs nowadays. And imagine if more of them knew about Bhai Mati Das and Bhai Sati Das. If the Punjabi Sikhs destroy the concept of biraderi and re-integrate our lost sehajdhari non-Punjabi cousins back into the the Sikh Panth then we can become the biggest non-Muslim Qaum within India. From that point onwards it's anybody's game. Paradoxically, I think "bigger" targets might be easier to achieve than "smaller" targets in this sense, just like BasicsofSikhi Veer is saying.

5. I think the Jatts of Haryana and Rajasthan are so badly against Sikhs that they are wary of this possibility. I'm convinced if Khalistan was ever obtained on a democratic mandate there wouldn't be an inch of Haryana, Rajasthan or Gujarat voluntarily ceded to it. Not Sri Ganganagar, not Panchkula nor any sea port in Kutch. If however, we can slowly but surely convince ordinary Hindu's that Sikhi is the Truth and will improve the lives of them and their society then we can achieve something far bigger than the Khalsa Raj of old as a pre-cursor to Sikhi going global for Sarbath Da Bhala + the Khalsa Panth protecting all.

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It seems that the idea of sending money to pay for books to educate poor Sikh children has lost some momentum so please can you add your name below on the thread to request that Admin (sikhsangat@live.com) set this up with Khalsa Aid's Focus Punjab Rural Empowerment project.

How does the funding to Khalsa aid work? if one wants their money to go directly to this noble project of educating and helping poor Sikh children, is that where it will go or will the money go to their larger pool of funds where it will then get evenly distributed to their various projects like sending money to Libya? Because I would rather that the money I send go directly to these poor Sikh children.

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How does the funding to Khalsa aid work? if one wants their money to go directly to this noble project of educating and helping poor Sikh children, is that where it will go or will the money go to their larger pool of funds where it will then get evenly distributed to their various projects like sending money to Libya? Because I would rather that the money I send go directly to these poor Sikh children.

Veerji the Focus Punjab "PURE" program "Punjab Underprivileged Rural Empowerment" Project is 100% ringfenced to help the poor children back in Punjab and does not go to a central pool such as the humanitarian efforts Khalsa Aid have participated in outside of Punjab.

Theoretically, if all us of Sangat on this forum do the best we can ... we could make a million dollar plus contribution.

If we want Sarbath Da Bhalla, we need to be in a strong position ourselves, in order to have the committed male+female Gursikh manpower in order to bring about that global change for a peaceful world of justice and equality that we do Ardas for.

http://focuspunjab.org/pure.html

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Veerji the Focus Punjab "PURE" program "Punjab Underprivileged Rural Empowerment" Project is 100% ringfenced to help the poor children back in Punjab and does not go to a central pool such as the humanitarian efforts Khalsa Aid have participated in outside of Punjab.

When I click on the donate button from PURE's site, it takes me to the same page as khalsa aid's donate page. It makes no indication of which purpose one would like their money to go to. It doesn't seem 100% ringfenced to me. It looks like the donated money will go to a large pool of money from where it will get evenly distributed to all there projects of which PURE is one along with money going to Libya and their other international projects. From where do you get this information that money given to khalsa aid will only be used by PURE?

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When I click on the donate button from PURE's site, it takes me to the same page as khalsa aid's donate page. It makes no indication of which purpose one would like their money to go to. It doesn't seem 100% ringfenced to me. It looks like the donated money will go to a large pool of money from where it will get evenly distributed to all there projects of which PURE is one along with money going to Libya and their other international projects. From where do you get this information that money given to khalsa aid will only be used by PURE?

Veerji i distinctly remember Ravinder Singh Ji (the Gursikh in the youtube videos) expressly saying that Focus Punjab literally was solely for Punjab (due to public demand). However, as I agree with yourself and proactive Veerji that we as forum Sangat would like this to be for children's education only then you can if you wish contact the charity directly for confirmation.

Their number is UK 0044(1753)567457 or info@khalsaaid.org

Instead of donating them to direct, which is still great, the idea on this thread was if we can set up a "total raised" counter on this thread or the site generally so that we can know how much we the forum Sangat collectively raised but whatever achieves the target is all good.

I'm told that once the ADMIN has finished organising the Dasam Granth Conference hopefully this initiative will get priority.

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^ SikhKosh Veerji i respect your opinions and reasoning why you hold those views.

1. Agreed, the higher the Sikh percentage is in Punjab the better. But rather than achieving that by transferring all non-Punjab based Sikhs to Punjab and thereby by making the 99% land area of India a Sikh-free zone where it could become virtually impossible to establish Sikhi ever again after Khalistan, i believe a higher percentage of Punjabi's can become Sikh if we only explain the logic of one God, avoiding superstitious beliefs + encourage the HP population to visit Gurdwara's again more and then accept them as sehajdhari Sikhs as well as highlighting the deep link of Bihar with Sikhi. Many Bihari's in Punjab have become Sikh already but these are sadly the exception rather than the rule. If we start to encourage these non-Thakur caste Bihari's towards Sikhi and see them as new potential Sikhs then the whole demographic equation in Punjab will change.

2. Agreed, given that Sikhi has effectively not grown much since the 1940's Rehat Maryada was adopted that defined Dr Ambedkar and crores of sehajdhari Sikhs as non-Sikhs, it now seems a tall order to even get 1% of UP, MP + Bihar to come to Sikhi as even that would be a phenomenal 3.75million people (new Sikhs). But if we can accept non-Punjabi sehajdhari's as Sikhs then there's no reason why as logic+education increases that hundreds of millions of people could wholesale simply reject the lies of Hinduism to embrace Sikhi even though it would be unrealistic to expect all of them to be Amritdhari.

3. I think when the 1940's Rehat Maryada defined them as non-Sikh and when Congress made a concerted effort to break them away from Sikhi (by witholding benefits unless they declared themselves as Hindu) then there was little they could do when we ourselves were responsible for declaring them non-Sikhs in the first place. We can't cry over spilt milk now but what we can do is correct the mistake of defining sehajdhari's (especially non-Punjabi ones) as Hindu's.

3.1a Agreed that Sikh percentage would go up in Punjab (but I believe it can go up via HP+Bihari's coming to Sikhi) and without wiping out and reducing the Sikh population outside of Punjab. If the Buddhists had taken this approach when they came under threat in India there would never be so many Buddhists in China, Japan, Thailand etc today. The Jewish ethnic religion + small area for Jews to all live in concept simply doesn't apply to us as we are a non-ethnic religion for the benefit of all humanity. Present day Eastern Punjab is only 14% of the land area of the original undivided Punjab. 99% of the Indian land area cannot be ethnically cleansed of Sikhs as the RSS would be happy to get us to voluntarily do that. Sikhi is the biggest thing they fear, were it ever to take hold amongst the Indian masses.

3.1b Agreed but the solution to that is 100% of Sikhs should be shastardhari and tyaar bar tyaar at all times given 1947 + 1984.

3.1c Agreed that bigger united Gurdwara's with one per area make sense rather than 25 competing Gurdwara per pind so that corrupt non-Sikh Mahants can have a monopoly on every biraderi-based golak but the human cost of a repeat of 1947 partition is incalculable. Cheaper and better for Sikhi's long term growth outside of Punjab to leave non-Punjabi Sikhs there where they are currently, rather than paying for the cost of re-settling 5 million plus non-Punjabi Sikhs back into the tiny part of original Punjab where we are overall a slight majority today. Forget about religion for a second but look at what the English, Scottish and Irish people achieved by leaving their tiny countries and settling in the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. The money spent re-settling non-Punjabi Sikhs into Punjab would be far better spent translating Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj into all local Indian languages with audio tapes and radio stations in local non-Punjabi languages so that the message Congress has worked to hide away (with our elitist+ignorant assistance) can get out there.

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