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Sikh Body Blames Former Dgp Of Conversion


Singh, Mahan
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Satinder Satti always saying Shabba Khair instead of Sat Sri Akaal

never knew that.

This Satinder Sartaj is a strange fellow, although born a Sikh he prefers to act and dress as a Sufi Muslim.

sufism is growing amongst people who have a thirst for spirituality , but no desire to join an organised religion. we need to let these people know, that sikhi offers more.

Sad to say but we have been divided ever since 1708 with sellouts betraying Banda Singh Bahadur.

Bhaji, that was not a case of selling out, but a difference in battle-tactics. sellouts is not appropriate.

Instead of building them Gurdwaras in every village there in MP Bihar, try to shift them to Punjab or adjoining districts. Isn't that better on the long term?

what? and let them get afflicted with the Panjabi disease?

1. Don't mind but you should read more about demographics esp those of Sikhs brother. Do you think 2500 Sikligars in Tamil Nadu can turn it into Sikh majority? Why not play safe by moving them to Panchkula where Sikh percentage can go from 7.7% to 8.2% with only 2500 Sikhs more?

bro, many people advocate the movement of communities and such, but in reality do you think they would want to move in the first place? Why cant they be Sikhs where they are, and we support them?

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You should read Theodor Herzls 'Der Judenstate' and about the migration of a few decades that got Jews their nation they didn't have for centuries.

Think logically. An example: lets say there is a hamlet in Andhra Pradesh with 14 families, one in Maharashtra 25 families and one in MP with 17 families. Admit it or not, they have no say in the local politics because they are not a large minority enough. Besides, tuition and Gurmat Parcharak will have to be 'paid' (yes, sadly) for every hamlet, small or big. A Gurdwara will be built for every hamlet, wheter small or big (British Sikh Council is doing it, a good job though). Won't it be better to have 56 families in one colony and build one Gurdwara thus saving money for 2 Gurdwaras and also save by having less Parcharaks. This money could be used on further colonies of Sikhs and will also give them political power. The lands these Sikligars are living on are often 'illegal' (see case of Sardar Colony, Alwar which is not enjoying facilities other slums are enjoying because its not registered), and ONE day in the future it is sure they will face the fate of Kutchi Sikhs and Uttarkhandi Sikhs who will come under the radar with some land law being enforced and Sikhs evicted. Assisted migration to the north is only a win win situation.

Even Muslims are doing it in Punjab, they are creating colonies in Malwa and now they are majority in 20 seats of 117 Punjab legislative assembly (according to Izhar Alam himself).

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You should read Theodor Herzls 'Der Judenstate' and about the migration of a few decades that got Jews their nation they didn't have for centuries.

SikhKosh Veerji as always i totally respect your sincere viewpoints which i usually totally agree with. But on this the slight difference to remember is that the Jews were a minority in Palestine in the 19th century and our Qaum, of course is a majority in Punjab currently, so the situation is not identical. Though of course our enemies are working overtime to make us a minority in the next census via their Abrahamic allies and Dera allies from Beas, Ballan and Sirsa to name a few.

The lands these Sikligars are living on are often 'illegal' (see case of Sardar Colony, Alwar which is not enjoying facilities other slums are enjoying because its not registered), and ONE day in the future it is sure they will face the fate of Kutchi Sikhs and Uttarkhandi Sikhs who will come under the radar with some land law being enforced and Sikhs evicted.

Assisted migration to the north is only a win win situation.

Veerji it's not a win/win situation because it's voluntary ethnic cleansing of Sikhi from 99% of the land area of the Indian Union.

Even Muslims are doing it in Punjab, they are creating colonies in Malwa and now they are majority in 20 seats of 117 Punjab legislative assembly (according to Izhar Alam himself).

Agreed Veerji, when a Qaum is in a minority then it has to increase it's population to get more political weight in an area. In Punjab, thankfully we are still currently a majority and just need to work more effectively at commmunicating our message to Hindu Punajbi's, Bihari's and souls lost to Derawadi and then Punjab will be much safer from our enemies plans. But outside of Punjab we cannot uproot the small seeds of Sikhi outside of Punjab and have to use those already there to build a platform for encouraging others towards Sikhi. In Punjab we need to enforce a one Gurdwara per village rule and ban new Gurdwara's from being built with biraderi-controlled golaks in mind. But outside of Punjab, the more Gurdware, the more hospitals, the more schools we build the better. We cannot voluntarily ethnically cleanse India of its Sikh problem. We have to make the Sikh Qaum the biggest non-Muslim population demographic in India. What that would take is just over a doubling of our numbers. Provided Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj is translated into all local Indian languages, I am 100% sure we can get to that stage in our lifetime.

Of course, it would help if our own Qaum in Punjab is educated and strong first, so that's why Admin & Khalsa Aid need to make his happen due to public demand to see if we can raise a million plus! Admin Ji, chak do fattay and let's do something for concrete for the advancement of Sikhi via this forum via the Khalsa Aid PURE program.

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Brother, don't be happy with the pseudo majority in Punjab. We have no majority in Punjab, the people counted as Sikhs also include all the Dera followers and especially with emigration of Sikhs to abroad and immigration of Muslims we surely are not at the 59% anymore. There are thousands of youths (Sikh) emigrate every year (illegaly).

And we have no majority in Haryana, Rajasthan and Himachal, so we could work on some of these too. Baki veer, we slightly differ here and lets just agree to disagree. I'm thinking long term with the current resources and you are assuming mass level parchar will happen (SGGS translated in all Indian languages, less Gurdwaras built, Biharis and Punjabis educated about Sikhi). What you are talking of is a wish, brother not many are working in the direction. But why not help the poor Sikhs who have no houses and in the meantime build them homes in north India instead of south?



This is why I don't believe in your theory that mass conversion will happen (theres dozens of stories like this all over India and even Hindu converts in Pakistan). Our 600 crore budget SGPC is corrupt and so are many of our Babas, we will have to work with the resources we have and not aim too high (talking about millions of converts and becoming majority in all India).

Indian Express - 31 October 2000
SGPC let me down, says Tamil Sikh

DHARMENDRA RATAUL

AMRITSAR, OCT 30: Kandasamy Singh, a Tamil who adopted the Sikh faith is running from pillar to post to collect his dues standing against Shiromani Gurudwara Parbandhak Committee (SGPC). He was appointed a parcharak (religious preacher) by the former president of the SGPC, Gurcharan Singh Tohra. He said that when he went to the SGPC office today, the officials refused to talk to him saying the president who appointed him had been changed and his name had been deleted from the list.

Kandasamy who lodged a written complaint with the SGPC president and sent a copy to the secretary, said that he was astonished to see the behaviour of the SGPC officials.``I was appointed parcharak by Tohra who asked me to propagate the tenets of Sikhism in the distant land of Tamils. I organised various Guru Ka Langars in the rural areas and also operated a mobile library in Marai Malai Nagar in Tamil Nadu but I was told today that my name had been deleted because the president had been changed,'' he said.

He further disclosed that he was influenced by Sikhism and adopted the religion in 1996 when he came to see his brother in Delhi who was a tailor in Karol Bagh.``I was eager to visit the Golden Temple and came here in 1998. I met Tohra who was so impressed with my conviction that he asked me if I could take up the task of teaching Sikhism in my native state. I accepted his offer and even underwent training in the Gurudwara here and at Chandigarh,'' he said.

He further said that Tohra promised to give him Rs 4000 per month for the expenditure on various promotional activities. ``But I was so engrossed with the propagation work that I never demanded any money and today when I approached the secretary of SGPC, Gurbachan Singh Bachan, he refused to talk to me. When I approached the officials of Dharam Parchar Committee (DPC) they embarrassed me by saying they do not know English and I should talk to them in Punjabi instead,'' he said.

He said that he was going to meet Simranjeet Singh Mann at his village tomorrow and would also lodge a complaint with the Chief Minister Parkash Singh Badal.

``I am an advocate by profession and was delighted to adopt the Sikh way of life but the attitude of the SGPC and of the DPC was astonishing. Instead of rewarding me for my translation of Sikh history into Tamil I was meted out humiliating treatment in the committee office,'' he said.

When Contacted Gurbachan Singh Bachan, Secretary, SGPC, said that he did not remember meeting Kandasamy Singh but he would definitely go through the complaint letter written to the president.``It is wrong to say that he was meted out such treatment because he was appointed by a former president.

There is more than 90 per cent of the preachers appointed by Tohra and it did not mean that we would treat them discriminately. I would personally look into the matter and his grievances would be redressed,'' said Bachan.

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After North India enduring 1000's of years of horrible confict with Muslims, we would be ABSOLUTELY INSANE to ever let Islam get even the tiniest foothold back in our Punjab. The British before running away at least had the decency to shift most of the Muslims out of Sikh/Hindu territory, the one 'GIFT' they ever actually gave us (paid for with millions of lives), and we're just going to throw it all away?

Ridiculous.

The ONLY thing Muslims should be given by Indian Punjab is assistance in settling SOMEWHERE ELSE. Muslims have their own damn country across the border... it's called Pakistan, they can go live and build their Mosques and Halal chicken shops over THERE.

It's not like in the UK where there are millions of Muslims and we HAVE to accept the fact that Muslims will always exist there, thus we must approach the situation in a secular manner. Muslims in East Punjab on the other hand are a pathetically small number and controllable.

If Badal is indeed APPEASING Muslims to try to get the Muslim block vote (like Labour in the UK), then he needs to go. It's pathetic that we have a 60% majority in Punjab and yet we can't get half decent Sikh based initiatives in place.

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No matter what, Punjab will ALWAYS be the Sikh homeland and base of operations, and frankly... our base is a TOTAL MESS. I mean sure... MOST of the world is a mess, but that doesn't excuse Punjab. A weak base makes Sikhs look weak. If we cannot raise ourselves, we cannot raise anyone else. We need to regroup and pool our strengths. After that we can do as much charity and Parchar across the world as we want.

And so...

We need to get all (willing) Sikhs out of problem areas and increase our majority in Punjab.There are TONS of Afghan Sikhs who left for the UK for example. There are likely many more Sikhs in Afghanistan/Pakistan/other parts of India or wherever else who simply WISH they had the power to leave. Poverty stricken Sikhs outside of Punjab CANNOT be expected to teach about Sikhi as they can barely survive. There's NO reason for them not to be in Punjab. We NEED to reach out to them for the good of everyone involved.

There are also wealthy Sikhs who have already made their fortune and want to build homes and settle back in Punjab. I personally know people doing this. We should make this VERY easy as these people are an invaluable asset.

Punjab NEEDS renewable energy. The sunshine is one thing we won't ever run out of in Punjab, so having solar panels (which are expensive) mounted everywhere is the future. We can't trust the Indian government to sort out those crippling power cuts, and without power businesses can't flourish, and the economy will FOREVER be repressed.

Punjab needs more energy, more businesses, more education and more jobs. The sheer potential of the farmland is being wasted by backwards management too. Money makes the world go round, and the more money we have the more political power we have.

The Focus Punjab program from Khalsa Aid sounds PERFECT frankly, I quite liked how he said he didn't care if people were 'offended' that they were only going to sponsor and help Sikh families. THAT is the kind of strong resolve we need and have needed for a long time. I seriously hope they stick to it.

The fact that Sikhs are even in poverty and so damn repressed in the first place, in what is meant to be the Sikh homeland... THAT is a horrible state of affairs, and sorting it should be our number one priority. If they were all healthy and wealthy, imagine all the good Sikhs could do in the world.

This initiative is definitely something I'd support, and massive respect to Tigerstyle for wanting to make a difference. Musicians that aren't so goddamn wrapped up in their own ego and want to do something for their people.

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Let's be realistic here.

It's takes governmental power to crack down on issues as bad as the Drugs Trafficking from Muslim countries, power cuts and such. Sikhs in Punjab have to vote, protest and be politically savvy to get the job done. These are things you need to physically live there to be involved in.

What we Sikhs in the West CAN DO is actually pass onto them our wealth, our control of media and our skills and knowledge. The whole POINT of leaving in the first place was to send money back home. Although all that's happened in reality is Sikhs have just kept our success to ourselves and Punjab has been left way behind to fend for itself and suffer.

It's high time to use what we have to empower our people back home, and we don't need anyones PERMISSION or government involvement to do it. We can help Punjab transform into a powerhouse. The greatest state in India, and then maybe it's own nation beyond that.

The process of development so far has been FAR too slow, and too many have stood in the way. Kinda like the few fools on the forums with their constant retarded 'Duh we should respect Islam and not tell people what it ACTUALLY says'...YOU people are holding Sikhi and its message back, and allowing Islam to propagate.

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And finally.

Sikhs always call for Khalistan, but have NO plans on how to create it. I hate to say it but even getting CLOSE to that is nothing but a fantasy and will be for a very long time, we aren't yet anywhere near competent enough. Not to mention... India will never EVER want to give Punjab up (it's the main source of Indian history, food production, culture, military and more), and understandably fearful Punjabi Hindu's don't want to live in a place called Khalistan... just like we don't accept the term 'Hindustan'.

An Independant Punjab however? With Sikhs AND Hindu's united in their shared culture and mutual disgust of the pathetic Indian government? THAT is possible!

A Punjab that can actually make use of its endless native wealth and develop itself.

A Punjab that inherits an army of native soldiers which is LARGER than the British Army.

A Punjab that can END the power cuts, police our own borders and END the flow of drugs and illegal immigrants poisoning our land.

A Punjab that can take to the world stage and actually help humanity.

A Punjab free from Indian rape culture, Indian corruption, Indian starvation and poverty, Indian stereotypes and the rest of its many PR disasters. A country of Lions, not Apu from The Simpsons.

A self sustaining Punjab IS possible, the infrastructure is practically all there. Convincing Hindu's would simply be a matter of showing them how successful we would be WITHOUT Delhi holding us back.

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After North India enduring 1000's of years of horrible confict with Muslims, we would be ABSOLUTELY INSANE to ever let Islam get even the tiniest foothold back in our Punjab. The British before running away at least had the decency to shift most of the Muslims out of Sikh/Hindu territory, the one 'GIFT' they ever actually gave us (paid for with millions of lives), and we're just going to throw it all away?

Ridiculous.

I agree with you. Personally I think partition violence is one of the biggest tragedies in Punjab's history in terms of lives lost on both sides of the border. But once the separation has happened the demographic balance must be maintained. Before partition the Muslims were a large minority in east Punjab. Had they remained, today due to their birth rate it is very likely they would have formed the majority and would have tried to ethnically cleanse east Punjab of non Muslims as they did in Kashmir with the Pandit community. If not that then it's very likely that a large Muslim community in Punjab would have been used by the Indian government against the Sikhs in the 80s. Big mistake was to let Malerkotla remain. And for that we paid with Azhar Alam who is from Maler Kotla. Azhar Alam is now trying to create a large Muslim community in Punjab. We must be vigilant about this Dusht.

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The easiest way to increase the Sikh percentage in Punjab is through having a higher birth rate than the non-Sikhs in Punjab. Prior to the decade 1991-2001 the Sikhs always increased by more than the combined population of non-Sikhs. If the Sikhs in Punjab make a concerted effort this could be the effect in the next 10 years

say in 2011 the Sikh Population is 16, 620,000 (60%) of the total population of Punjab of 27,704,000

Non-Sikh population is 11,084,000 would increased by a normal rate of about 20% between 2011 and 2021. This would make them 13,380,000

If the Sikhs make a concerted effort by social and religious organisations carrying out mass parchar that Sikh couples should have more kids. This could be the effect.

Sikh population in the age group 18 to 30 is about 26% of the population. That makes couples 13% of the Sikh population. If each couple is encouraged to have kids, at least 5 within the next decade 2011 to 2021 this would be the increase in the number of Sikhs.

13% (couples) of Sikhs . 16.62 Million x 13% = 2.160 Million couples. Each couple has 5 kids in the decade 2011 to 2021 = 10.8 Million Sikh births.between 2011 and 2021.

Population of Punjab in 2021

Sikhs 27.42 Million Sikhs and 13.38 million non-Sikhs. Total population = 40.8 Million. Sikhs 27.42/40.8 = 67.2%

The next decade because the percentage of Sikhs in the age group 18-30 will be a much smaller percentage, due to the large number of Sikhs in the 1-10 age group due to the extra births. If the number is the same say 2.16 million so the Sikhs will have the same increase in absolute numbers of their population between 2021 and 2031.

Population of Punjab 2021

Sikh population is 27.42 + 10.8 = 38.22 Million. Non-Sikh population would increase by about 15 % between 2021 and 2031 and be 15.38 Million.

So the Sikh population would be 38.33/53.6 = 71%

However the next decade 2031-2041 would show the Sikh increase many fold because even of the ge group 18-30 have just 2 births because the number of Sikhs in this age group would be huge because they were the new births in the 2011-2021 decade the Sikh increase would far outstrip the non-Sikh increase.

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The easiest way to increase the Sikh percentage in Punjab is through having a higher birth rate than the non-Sikhs in Punjab. Prior to the decade 1991-2001 the Sikhs always increased by more than the combined population of non-Sikhs. If the Sikhs in Punjab make a concerted effort this could be the effect in the next 10 years

Proactive Jee, true the Sikhs should be having more babies. Sadly Sikhs have greatly reduced their birth rate the last few decades. During the Kharkoo movement, the Kharkoos realized the need for an increased birth rate which is why they had the Akal Takht Jathadar even announce that Sikhs should be having 5 kids per family. Until the last 2-3 generations ago, having this many children would have been considered normal, but now Sikhs have been so influenced by the cultural norms of other Indians that having more children is now frowned upon. Muslims on the other hand have not become cultural slaves like the Sikhs. In India they have doubled their percentage since partition. They know in a democracy, demographics is all that counts. I know many Sikh families that have 4 and even 5 kids but they are becoming increasingly rare now. At the very least for a community to grow naturally the minimum children per family needed is 3. Having 3 children is still the norm for Sikh families today. Anything less than 3 is too little and will not grow the community as a whole. Another thing to be done is that abortion needs to be banned state wide. It is a HUGE sin and crime against humanity. Nothing is worse than one killing their own unborn yet living baby. Due to this crime of gender selective abortion our sex/gender ratio is one of the worst. Abortion doctors are doctors of death.

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Agreed about having atleast 3 kids per Sikh family. Read this by Dr Gurmit Singh, don't know how true this is but won't be surprised if it is:

“Low fertility among the. Sikh population can be gauged by the fact that in twenty one states and union territories have child population proportion below 12 per cent among Sikhs of these nine states have less than ten percent child population.”
The actual reason of the low fertility among the Sikh population is the policy of the government, Recently Muslims of Uttar Pardesh constituted a committee of scientists to find reasons for the decline of fertility amongst the Muslims. The report of the committee was startling. It revealed that the reason for declining fertility rate amongst the Muslims was the policy of the government to populrise the Polio Drops. In Punjab too Polio Drops “Camps are frequently organized and it is reducing the fertility of the Sikh population."

There is a big game going on. Assisted emigration of Sikhs out of Punjab, settling non-Sikhs into Punjab systematically, discrimination against people (mostly Sikhs) who studied in Punjabi medium in cities, no measures against drug abuse and smuggling, openly allowing distribution of drugs/alcohol in politics, it is all messed.

After a genocide we are going through an ethnocide.

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