Should We Have Khalistan? What Do You Think?

[ekgurjaskhalsa]

[isingh1699]

^{The question isn't so much about should we have Khalistan or not? The Sikh Panth has automatic birthright and Haq to whatever we the Sarbat Khalsa (which includes everyone who accepts Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj as their Guru) democratically desire.}

^{But no home is built from the roof downwards. A strong house is built with strong foundations.}

^{Khalsa Raj should cover all of India not just a tiny minority part of the old Punjab. Eventually Khalsa Raj should be global to protect all humanity.}

^{But we need to get the following foundations in place.}

^{Otherwise if armed struggle until mid-1990's did not achieve the freedom from GOI terrorism that 99% of the Panth desired at the end of November 1984 then it's clear we need a new and intelligent approach rather than just blindly chanting slogans and hoping that will work.}

^{In order to get it even locally (as Khalsa Raj should be throughout India where our Panj Takhts are), Punjab (in no particular order) needs to be:}

^1.

^{Drugs free (that true Sikhs are never seen touching drugs despite the stupid "party" reputation some in our community have created) ... agressive tactics to be used against dealers. Musicians play a big part in promoting drugs, alcohol and tribal identity and can't be ignored.}

^2.

^{Alcohol free (there are too many songs promoting this poison and a Qaum on sharaab will always be weak in the main) ... persuasive health-based logic to be used prior to occasions of celebration and to slowly but surely get the message across that sharaab is not acceptable even for sehajdhari Sikhs}

^3.

^{Biraderi politics (all crooks wanting to control biraderi-based golaks for themselves need to be stopped and idiots arranging rishte by not following the don't ask + don't tell rule need to be exposed as the anti-Sikh dogs they are. Across-biraderi rishte need to be enforced in arranged marriages in order to end this divisive cancer)}

^4.

^{Abortion clinics killing girl children need to be agressively put out of business (but we don't need to go the trouble of bombing them like Americans do)}

^5.

^{An all out campaign to make our Panth 100% literate, as a lot of the problems we face stem from lack of education. Voluntary seva by Diaspora youth to teach youth in Punjab can help re-inforce our links with Punjab and keep overseas youth grounded and away from western materialism, drugs, alcohol etc.}

^6.

^{An increase in free hospitals and drugs treatment centres so that poor Sikhs (that too many within our Panth ignore) aren't forced to convert in order to get important life-saving operations done.}

^7.

^{And end to the lie that all religions are equally beneficial to all of mankind. Amongst ourselves we need to agressively expose the disgusting livelihoods of prominent faith figures from the Abrahamic + Hindu religions. Obviously we can tone down the rhetoric if we are talking to a potential convert one on one on the street (especially Hindu's from whom most new members of the Panth are likely to arise from). But on the internet we shouldn't be that sensitive as to hesitate from open and honest criticism of pedophiles and slaveowners and those who supposedly had virgin births.}

^8.

^{Increasing acceptance of all within the community as Sikhs rather than us saying that 90% are no longer Sikhs. Not treating sehajdhari's as Hindu's as GOI wants.}

^9.

^{Instead of concentrating on minor arguments about differences in various Rehats, or tables/chairs in Langar Hall or whether old saroops should be agan bhet or if girls are doing their eyebrows or guys wearing durags, we need to work out what our current priorities out of the above are and focus most of our attention on those.}

^10.

^{We need one single SGPC charity in which the funds within cannot be accessed by Badal Dal. This charity's remit would be to maximise seva efforts globally. And then if we don't physically take part in pushing our Qaum forward then we have to contribute the maximum daswand towards this united SGPC Charity but in the meantime Khalsa Aid are doing a great job and we should contribute the maximum to their Educate Punjab Project to ensure our youth are mentally strong enough...}

[ekgurjaskhalsa]

thanks for the video.. I really want to work with Khalsa Aid but I am just a student now... Maybe when I will have a degree in my hand and some qualifications and money of course I would love to work with them

[isingh1699]

thanks for the video.. I really want to work with Khalsa Aid but I am just a student now... Maybe when I will have a degree in my hand and some qualifications and money of course I would love to work with them

That's right Khalsa Ji and United Sikhs are doing a great job too. I don't know if you are studying medicine but if in the future you are saving people's lives in California and sending daswand out of that onwards it can arguably be even more beneficial than losing a year out of well paid work in order to work with them. It's all about what achieves the most positive end result. But if all our Diaspora youth from Gurdwara's were sent to do seva "conscription" as the young lady below has voluntarily done, at a stroke we could cut alcohol and drug consumption and depression amongst Diaspora youth.

If only the SGPC could create a standalone charity whose funds could not accessed by Badal Dal our Qaum could flood such an organisation with daswand I'm sure.

[proactive]

Veerji You got some good ideas there. The SGPC is too corrupt to ever set up a charity as you suggested. The SGPC is just a glorified gurdwara committee which talks much but does very little. Only a takeover of the SGPC by Panthic minded individuals can lead to the SGPC being put back on track. Until then my suggestion is to avoid giving any money to this bloated corrupt organisation. If you are going to India then whenever you go darshan of a historic Gurdwara in Punjab then rather than matha tek rs 100 or rs 500 then just give rs 10 and the rest of the money you were going to matha tek, give it to an organisation that you know is doing positive work in Punjab.In this way rather than relying on the SGPC to use your money in the right manner, you have control over how your money is being spent.

[SikhKosh]

1. Before making 'Khalistan' or thinking towards achieving it, SAVE PUNJAB.
2. ISingh veer has rightly summed up a few good suggestions to save Punjab and make place for Khalistan.
3. We need Sikhs sympathetic 'to THE cause' high up in the Indian Govt. We need to make our children IAS officers, lawyers and not only doctors or engineers (do not underestimate what Sikh police officers could potentionally do for our qaum). Increase public support for the Panthic cause, wheter its Amritdharis or Monas (Panth has been helped by Sehajdharis before too, like Bhai Kaura Mal), this includes celebrities.
4. Replace Bhaiya migrant labour force with Sikligar, Lobana, Satnami, Johari Sikhs. Start with your house in Punjab (replace the bhaiye with Sikh workers).

5. Don't give money in Punjab Gurdwaras but give to the poor Sikhs.

About Khalistan itself, I feel the views expressed in the video are rather childish.

1. Landlocked? Its no problem, there are over 40 landlocked nations. Besides Khalistan does extend to the Arabian Sea (Kachh area), the most accepted maps do show sea acces.
2. ''600 Million Harijans'' into Sikhi? We can't even take care of Punjab, lets focus on that first then we can turn to the rest of India. We lost a oppertunity once with BR Ambedkar though. Also during Singh Sabha movement alot of Sikhs in Tamil Nadu converted but they reverted back when there was no support from the Qaum. We should learn from Sulley in the aspect of respecting and encouraging new Sikhs.
3. Lets even say the Dalits convert to Sikhi and India is Sikh majority, but you will still have problems with the different ethnicities (Tamils) and Muslim extremists in Kashmir, UP etc.

4. We need our historical home back - atleast the remaining portion in India.
5. We will have a system like the Jewish 'Aaliyah', repatriating Sikhs from other countries (esp Pak Afghan and parts of India not in Khalistan).
6. Ever thought of city-state status for the Takhts outside?

[SikhKosh]

SGPC does NOTHING for our qaum with their 600 crore annual budget. Singh Sabha movement managed to convert more Sikhs a century back with no such budget, imagine what we could do with 600 crores if it wasn't spent for personal benefits?

[13Mirch]

SGPC is the Akali Dal's prostitute.

[isingh1699]

Veerji You got some good ideas there. The SGPC is too corrupt to ever set up a charity as you suggested. The SGPC is just a glorified gurdwara committee which talks much but does very little. Only a takeover of the SGPC by Panthic minded individuals can lead to the SGPC being put back on track. Until then my suggestion is to avoid giving any money to this bloated corrupt organisation. If you are going to India then whenever you go darshan of a historic Gurdwara in Punjab then rather than matha tek rs 100 or rs 500 then just give rs 10 and the rest of the money you were going to matha tek, give it to an organisation that you know is doing positive work in Punjab.In this way rather than relying on the SGPC to use your money in the right manner, you have control over how your money is being spent.

Proactive Veerji i'll be honest none of these concepts are mine, they are just what i have cobbled together from more learned elders like yourself who care about the future of Sikhi. I hear what u are saying about today's Badal controlled SGPC being too corrupt to put this amount of trust and responsibility in at this moment in time. But my ardaas every day is that we have one large united Panthic charity controlled from the Akal Takht which is open and transparent due to too many honest Khalsa sevadars + accountants watching out that not a single rupee is stolen/wasted. Becuase i feel a lot of the excellent charities we have are too focussed in nature for example, on the widows of 1984, Sikh Prisoners, looking after useless old buildings ... while Sikhs convert and can't get operations, or doing eye camps etc and that we need a total balanced allocation by Sikh scholars as to how much should go towards ensuring education for our youth, how much on uplifting poor Sikhs, how much on cancer treatment + life saving operations, how much towards parchaar which always must be in tandem with practical seva ... as well as obviously looking after political prisoners welfare and the situation of Sikh Genocide widows+families that SOPW and seva84 do brilliantly, for example.

4a. Replace Bhaiya migrant labour force with Sikligar, Lobana, Satnami, Johari Sikhs. Start with your house in Punjab (replace the bhaiye with Sikh workers).

5a. Don't give money in Punjab Gurdwaras but give to the poor Sikhs.

About Khalistan itself, I feel the views expressed in the video are rather childish.

1. Landlocked? Its no problem, there are over 40 landlocked nations. Besides Khalistan does extend to the Arabian Sea (Kachh area), the most accepted maps do show sea acces.

2. ''600 Million Harijans'' into Sikhi? We can't even take care of Punjab, lets focus on that first then we can turn to the rest of India. We lost a oppertunity once with BR Ambedkar though. Also during Singh Sabha movement alot of Sikhs in Tamil Nadu converted but they reverted back when there was no support from the Qaum. We should learn from Sulley in the aspect of respecting and encouraging new Sikhs.

3. Lets even say the Dalits convert to Sikhi and India is Sikh majority, but you will still have problems with the different ethnicities (Tamils) and Muslim extremists in Kashmir, UP etc.

4. We need our historical home back - atleast the remaining portion in India.

5. We will have a system like the Jewish 'Aaliyah', repatriating Sikhs from other countries (esp Pak Afghan and parts of India not in Khalistan).

6. Ever thought of city-state status for the Takhts outside?

SikhKosh Veerji i agree with a lot of what u say but I just wanted to give a slightly different slant on your views.

4a. Excellent idea about giving poor Sikhs opportunities in Punjab (but they can be crucial in expanding sikhi outside of Punjab if we assist them) but given that Takht Sri Patna Sahib is in Bihar why can't we educate these Bihari's about what Sikhi represents. Given how badly the non-Thakur castes are treated there surely Sikhi is like a breathe of fresh air if we can treat the honest percentage of Bihari workers humanely, encourage them to come to Gurdwara's and provide them audio tapes about Guru Gobind Singh Ji in their own Bihar+UP dialects.

5a. Our Gurdwara's are meant to do exactly what you say should be done by us directly (helping poor Sikhs and other poor people) ... it's so sad to find myself agreeing with you that if a person has the direct contacts then direct contribution might be more effective ... but let's try shake up SGPC on this that if they don't separate SGPC's charitable arm from Badal interference then literally the Panth will begin to threaten to withold golak donations and donate directly to organisations where there is total transparency of where funds are used and there is real tangible benefit from the seva being done.

On the Khalistan part of your post I disagree a bit more (not to disagree for the sake of fighting but just to put my alternative view to u respectfully as a Veer clearly committed to the Panth)

1. Landlocked geography obviously does not prevent nationhood but most who insist on Khalistan only being modern day Indian Punjab accept that that there would be no sea access through Gujarat or Rajasthan. And a lot of people don't realise that we are now a minority in Doaba.

2. Veerji i understand what u mean when u say let's worry about Punjab before thinking or dreaming of a majority of poor Indians coming into Sikhi. But sadly take a look at the biraderi-based politics in Punjab which are so entrenched that it's actually easier for fresh people to come to Sikhi from outside of Punjab rather than win back the hearts of those that have been encouraged and poisoned by the RSS+casteists to turn their Gurdwara's into Mandirs and discard Gutka Sahibs for photo's of Dera rapists that ask their followers to vote Congress.

3. The day that India becomes a majority Sikh state it will be an inevitability that Khalsa Raj can one day become global for the protection and equality of all humanity, so when we get to that level of strength we will equipped to face down all problems rather than struggling as we are today.

4. When some Sikhs think that Khalsa Raj effectively has no right to return on the Pakistan side of Punjab due to the Genocide and ethnic cleansing the Punjabi Muslims did against us in 1947 then it's an encouragement to GOI that all they have to do is make us a minority in Eastern Punjab (which they are potentially within a few years of achieving if we don't act hard now) and the Sikhs will give up claims to Eastern Punjab too as many already have realised the demographics in Doaba mean the people there won't agree to Khalistan leaving only Majha and Malwa left. Is that fair and/or logical? And surely we need to expand our horizons beyond a tiny area the size of Israel when control of India could be there for the taking if we only could effectively communicate to non-Sikhs that Sikhi is for their benefit and all of humanity rather than Hinduism+Islam which benefit the few slavemasters and pedophiles and casteists at the top.

5. Judaism is an ethnic religion so that's why they need an "aaliyah" to the land they beleive God gave them. Sikhi is a global faith for all of humanity. For Sikhs the whole world is ours, so the idea of people leaving countries or states to be repatriated to Punjab is an idea I don't like. As our religion is not Punjabi. It literally is for the whole of humanity. At one time there were more non-Punjabi sehajdhari Sikhs than all different types of Punjabi Sikhs put together.

6. For me, I don't really like that idea that Sikhs would be restricted to city state pockets of Sri Hazur Sahib and Sri Patna Sahib but the majority of Bihari's and people from U.P and south India/Maharashtra would remain outside of Sikhi just as they do currently ... with Sikhs needing visa's to do darshan at Sri Bangla Sahib, Sri Patna Sahib, Sri Rakab Ganj Sahib and Sri Hazur Sahib.

[SikhKosh]

4a. Agreed about parchaar in their languages and your other point. We need to give preferance to poor Sikh workers and also migrants who convert.
5a. Nothing to be added.

1. But the problem is that Khalistan is not/should not be landlocked. The map proposed in 1981 and most others designed by Panthic Singhs do have sea acces. However we need to sit down and discuss but we have alot of people asking Khalistan but everyones Khalistan is different.

2. I'd stil say first focus on Punjab and when things are slightly under control then start expanding... We can't try to expand when our nucleus is being attacked. There are many options and we should learn from Zionists who changed demographics, the same can be done in many districts neighbouring Punjab.

3. A billion people becoming Sikhs...? Aren't we being too enthousiastic brother ? We need a seperate Sikh nation soon, we can't convert all Hindus so easily. Not even a thousand Hindus have converted in Madhya Pradesh and BJP already took the matter up in 2002 and even now with the recent conversions locals and politicians are threatening them. We can't even save our Sikhs in Punjab, how will we save the new converts far away from our nucleus? God forbid, if someone attacks these Sikhs in MP we won't be able to do anything just like Delhi. We should stop dreaming that we can convert these people so easily and without any problem. I have talked to Sikh converts and many of them have been let down because they do not get mental, physical, financial support from the Qaum unlike Islam where converts are given so many facilities and encouragement.

Read about the Tamil convert Sikh who did everything to preach Sikhi in his state but was let down by SGPC and not paid his salary, his name is Kandaswamy Singh. Same with Hindu converts in Sindh, Pak. We should rightly focus on Punjab first and then focus on neighbouring districts, make Sikh settlements in Haryana and Rajasthan (buying land is prohibited but encourage Punjabi Sikhs to marry -Sikh- girls from Himachal, Rajasthan etc so they can settle there).

4. No comment.

5. Aaliyah does not nec mean 'ethnic' immigration. It means that Jews from all over the world are helped to go back to their roots.

Sikhi may not be a religion confined to one ethnicity, BUT the Gurus themselves set up the nucleuses in Punjab region (Kartarpur, Amritsar, Kiratpur, Anandpur) and Sikhs from Kabul to Tamil Nadu (such as Singh from the Panj Pyare who was of South Indian ethnicity) came to Punjab because that was our political center. Same way Punjab will always remain our spiritual and even political home - thats why we need a Sikh nation there first and we can build up and have more Sikh countries with ease.

Secondly, Afghan and Pak Sikhs come to mind. They have such difficulties living in those countries but are too poor and scared to leave their countries because of the problems they will face by immigrating to India (visa, livelihood etc) BUT if we as a Sikh nation guarantee the safe immigration of Sikhs from ALL over the world regardless of race and ensure them a secure future then thats something to watch out for. Thats one of the reasons we need Khalistan - to ''cater'' the needs of the Sikh Qaum which can't be done in India. Even western Sikhs who wish to immigrate to Punjab/Khalistan will have it easier if the state helps in securing jobs etc. That was my point.

6. As I said Punjab is our nucleus. We can expand lateron, but to obtain something you will have to lose something too. The city state concept was just a suggestion or idea.