Sikh Response To Hukam In This Video

[DalbirSingh]

What is the sikh response to hukam shown in this video, what is the sikh perspective on things here:

[Jonny101]

karma

[DalbirSingh]

karma

Does karma go against hukam?

[Jonny101]

Does karma go against hukam?

Vaheguru has created a system of action and reaction. Everything that happens within that system is within His hukam. His Hukam and it's workings are so great that it is beyond our limited intellect. Everything that happens to us is a result of our past karams, but at the same time when someone does something bad to us it does not necessarily mean it is a result of our past karmas, maybe the aggressor has created a new bad karma by doing something bad and for that he will pay in the future.

[Singhstah]

In Sikhi, both nadar (grace) and karma (fruits of actions of past lives) have a role to play in what happens in our life. What happens to a person could be a result of karma, could be a result of nadar, or a mixture of both, e.g. a bad event meant to happen due to karma is reduced to a less bad event thanks to Nadar of Vaheguroo. There is also a third element at play, the grace of Gurmukhs/Sants - such sants are parupkari (merciful to others) and so pray to Vaheguroo to take on some of the bad karma of another person, the event will then happen to that person.

Even when God's nadar comes into play to save someone, it does not mean that such a person is a 'good person' or that conversely someone who something bad happens to is a 'bad person', it just means that vaheguroo decided to intervene based on one thing about that person that pleased him to act at that moment. For someone something bad to happens, if the result is that Vaheguroo leads them onto bhagti it is in fact a great mercy of vaheguroo as as Guru Sahib has said, 'dukh daroo sukh rog bhaiea ja sukh thaam no hoee' - "Suffering is the medicine, and pleasure the disease, because where there is pleasure, there is no desire for God."

In Sikhi karam philosophy is different from Hindu karam philosophy where the grace of God has no role and karma is all powerful. In Sikhi the effects of bad karma can be reduced by the grace of Vaheguroo and/or Sants. Please watch this video for further information on Karam Philosophy specifically in Gurmat:

[scali]

No soul leaves the earth before its agenda is complete. Even when someone dies he/she is given a choice to go back. Our Sikh sangat really needs to familar with the NDE experiences with people, now thousand of documented cases. Death usually means integration of a being. Being born is rather a state of disintegration in three parts body, mind and soul, which seems like being pulled in different directions causing the confusion of life. Making it worst the forgetfullness one has when born, which is necessary for it to creates its new experience.

Hukam is always perfect. We just cant see the whole picture of lives interacting in the Martix (big picture)

[isingh1699]

Vaheguru has created a system of action and reaction. Everything that happens within that system is within His hukam. His Hukam and it's workings are so great that it is beyond our limited intellect.

Agreed with all of the above Jonny Veerji

Everything that happens to us is a result of our past karams,

Strongly disagree with that though Pyare Veer. The Islamic Ghallugharas of our Panth, the Pakistani Genocide of Sikhs in 1947 and the Congress GOI Genocide of Sikhs entirely repudiate the concept that devout Gursikhs suffered as a result of past karams. Karma refers specifically to actions in this life (for which there is undeniably an action and reaction which takes one further or closer to merging with God). It was only Manu Smriti, the handbook of Hindu terrorism and caste discrimination that invented the lie that present day suffering is as a result of past sins. Sikhi rejects this Hindu concept entirely. All evil actions in 1947+1984 were done by our enemies rather than deserved punishment for the supposed past sins of devout Gursikhs.

but at the same time when someone does something bad to us it does not necessarily mean it is a result of our past karmas, maybe the aggressor has created a new bad karma by doing something bad and for that he will pay in the future.

The whole "payment for present sins in a future life" is classical Hindutva philosophy Veerji.

Guru Sahib never presumed to finitely box in or define God's unlimited and infinite methods for ensuring Justice as per Hukam..

In Sikhi, both nadar (grace) and karma (fruits of actions of past lives) have a role to play in what happens in our life.

Pyare Veer, karma in Sanskrit specifically means actions of this life.

Only in Manu Smriti did it begin to be perverted to the meaning of previous lives.

There is also a third element at play, the grace of Gurmukhs/Sants - such sants are parupkari (merciful to others) and so pray to Vaheguroo to take on some of the bad karma of another person, the event will then happen to that person.

Veerji my limited understanding of Sikhi is that we do not believe in intercession like the Hindu's + Muslims with pirs + sadhu's doing deals for us.

Dalbir Singh Veerji. Everything is part of Hukam at the ultimate level. If the dude survives (injured or unscathed) let us thank God (rather than his so-called actions in a previous life). If he's paralysed then let us focus on blaming that on the shooters rather than the one suffering. If the innocent dies - clearly solely as a result of the evil murderers - then that should mean mukthi and merger with The One.

[Jonny101]

Strongly disagree with that though Pyare Veer. The Islamic Ghallugharas of our Panth, the Pakistani Genocide of Sikhs in 1947 and the Congress GOI Genocide of Sikhs entirely repudiate the concept that devout Gursikhs suffered as a result of past karams. Karma refers specifically to actions in this life (for which there is undeniably an action and reaction which takes one further or closer to merging with God). It was only Manu Smriti, the handbook of Hindu terrorism and caste discrimination that invented the lie that present day suffering is as a result of past sins. Sikhi rejects this Hindu concept entirely. All evil actions in 1947+1984 were done by our enemies rather than deserved punishment for the supposed past sins of devout Gursikhs.

Veerji, I also said that when someone(an aggressor) does something bad to you, it does not necessarily mean you are being punished for a previous karma on your part. It can also mean that the aggressor has now created a new (bad) karma on himself for which he will be liable in future. Gurbani also gives reference to Karma system. In Japji Sahib it says in the 20th Pauri:

ਪੁੰਨੀ ਪਾਪੀ ਆਖਣੁ ਨਾਹਿ ॥ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਣਾ ਲਿਖਿ ਲੈ ਜਾਹੁ ॥ ਆਪੇ ਬੀਜਿ ਆਪੇ ਹੀ ਖਾਹੁ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਹੁਕਮੀ ਆਵਹੁ ਜਾਹੁ ॥੨੦॥

http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/darpan2/0004.html read Prof Sahib Singh Jee's arth and explanation.

These tukhs are clear evidence of the existance of a Karmic system where Guru Jee explains one should not just say Paap and Punn karam is nothing, because what ever action you take is all being written down, what you sow so shall you reap, Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee says with the hukam of Vaheguru you will come and go in the cycle of transmigration based on your karmas.

The Karmic system of justice is a universal truth. Every action will have a reaction. Do not dismiss something simply because Hindus also coincidentally happen to believe it. This is what Kala Afghanists/missionaries do. They dismiss anything even if it is written in Bani just because Hindus also happen to believe it. So their phobia of Hindus is so great that they are willing to say Bani is lying. They have become heretics. Buddhists and Jains also believe in reincarnation and Karmic system, yet they are distinct from Hinduism.

Do you believe in reincarnation?

[N30S1NGH]

There is historical parsang in sri gur pratap nanak parkash/soraj parkash granth regarding karam theory and karam being of three different types of karam- sachit, kriaman and parlabdh karam. Here is more info about it:

source: http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/55009-brahm-gyan-english-part-1/

Rut 5^th , Adaiy 41^st.

Bhai Daya Singh Waloy Karam Nirnay.



Singhs would sit in Guru Ji’s presence on a daily basis , where Guru Ji would inform them about Rehat Rehaney (codes of conduct). Singhs would listen attentively to the discourse on Bhagti Gyan (devotional knowledge). (1)

“People are trapped in in dukhdayak (fearful) karam (deeds).”

“Please elaborate on this so that we can protect ourselves”, the Sikhs requested humbly with clasped hands. (2)

“Daya Singh is my Uttam roop (high representative). Whatever you desire you may ask him , he will answer all your questions”, Guru Ji said from their Mukh . (3)

Upon saying this Guru Ji went inside , the rest remained seated there. Everyone was eager to hear this. Then Daya Singh spoke. (4)

“Guru Ji is samrath (proficient) in every way , we with low intellect are nothing compared to them. I will only speak in the manner that Guru Ji directs me, i.e. like a putli (puppet)”. (5)

“Guru Ji will narrate from their own Mukh , people will assume that a putli is speaking. First of all listen to karam gatha , the result of which narak (hell) swarg (heaven) is attained.” (6)

“There are three types of karam (deeds) , Sanchit , Paralabdh , and Kiriaman. In the patha (archer’s quiver) there exists three types of karam Baan (arrows of actions)”. (7)

“The shadow of the Chetan Atmah (Abhas Aks) , secondly due to that reflection there is Pratibimbat Antehkaran. Thirdly combined with Agyan Ansh , it is within the compound of these three that all the karam bij (sowing seeds of actions) exist.” (8)

“Antehkaran in itself is Jadd roop achet (lifeless) until it takes the power from Chetan. Until that time it is powerless to execute any karam (deeds). When the reflection of Antehkaran Chetan falls upon it , then it is capable of karam.” (9)

“Whilst Agyan (lack of knowledge) is present in the Mann (mind) = Antehkaran , then it is able to perform karam (actions/deeds) . It cannot commit karam without Agyantah (lack of knowledge).” (10)

“All three have to be present in order to perform karam , i.e. Antehkaran (mind) , Agyan (ignorance), and Chetan Atmah. If one is missing then karam cannot be engaged into.” (11)

“Heh Khalsa Ji I will elaborate on this. Imagine Satogunn Roopi to be the soil , then Antehkaran is the lump of that soil.” (12)

“Chetan Atmah is the Akash (sky) , all the Agyan (ignorance) is the water. When the lump of soil is mixed with water then a Ghadah (clay pot) is formed.” (13)

“The ghadah (clay pot) takes in the Akash (skylight). The karam (actions) act as Anaj (seeds) in this ghadah. Now the ghadah is capable of containing Padarath (goods).” (14)

“If these three separate from each other then they are not proficient in being a container/receptacle for anything. Which means that Atam is not capable of committing any karam in itself.” (15)

“In the same way Antehkaran or Agyan individually are incapable of committing any karam. There has to be Sanjog (fusion) of the three before karam can be entered into.” (16)

“On the crossbow of Antehkaran exist the arrows of karam. The arrow shoots forward and leaves once the crossbow has been stretched and released.” (17)

“The arrow , after taking leave of it’s Tej Wegh (force) , falls on the ground. Pararabhd gives phall (fuition) to all and then becomes shant (static/at peace etc.).” (18)

“The arrows that are on the crossbow are known as Sanchit (accumulated). The one that is stretched on the Chila is known as Kiriaman.” (19)

“The karam for which this body is given , oh patient ones , is known as Pararabhd. They have been accumulated over many lives. They are called Sanchit , they are Vichitar (colourful) and of many types.” (20)

“Kiria is done on a daily basis and conducted with ego , i.e. “I am doing/me etc. On a daily basis are known as Kiriaman Karam. It is this Kiriaman that takes three names , i.e. Bhavik (future) , Vartman (present) , and Bhootkal (past).” (21)

“In the first state (future) it is Kiriaman , in the second state (present) it is Sanchit and in the third state (past) it becomes Pararabhd.” (22)

“Just as one era is first Bhavikat (future) , but later becomes vartman (present) , and finally becomes Bhootkal (past). Consider this in the same way.” (23)

“Pararabdh has three Phall (fruition) :-

Jaati , Umar , and Bhog. Jaati are Turi,Devtay,Manukh etc. (bodies of Jadd Jangam). Uttam , Maddam , addam which are Ik Rass (same).” (24)

“In all there are many varieties. Now we’ll discuss Arblah. Whatever the life span of a being say from a second onwards is known as arblah , which is one Phall (fruition) of Pararabdh.” (25)

“The explanation of Bhog is such where Dukh (sorrow/misery) , Sukh (joy/pleasure) , honour , disgrace , beauty , ugliness etc. Are experienced , which the intellectuals refer to as Bhog. This is known in the fourteen worlds.” (26)

“If both Sanchit and Kiriman karam are joined then they are on a par with Atam Gyani. Just as arrows in a phatha (quiver) can be stopped from being shot , and the one on chila can also be stopped before being fired.” (27)

“Pararabhd is the fired arrow which cannot be stopped once it has been fired . They are equal for Agyani (ignorant) and Gyani (knowledgeable) alike. The pararabdh phall is equal for both.” (28)

“Sanchit Karam can be destroyed under the influence of Gyan (divine knowledge) , just as fire can burn down a house and the seeds contained in it.” (29)

“The house together with the seeds burn to dust. The seeds lose their fertility (unable to take root). This is how it is for the Sanchit karam.” (30)

“With Gyan Agni (fire of divine wisdom) the Sanchit karam are burnt to ash. They cannot ever grow again.” (31)

“In this way Antehkaran becomes destroyed. The chitt becomes Sat Saroop and shant (at peace/statcic). I will now define Chitt Sat , understand Antehkaran Roop to be this.” (32)

“Now mann’s (mind’s) roop will be told :

Inside the Anatam exists Atam Buddhi. In Asat Jagat there is Sat Buddh. Atmah is Sat (true) but considers it to be asat (false).” (33)

“When Atam Gyan is attained then ignorance disappears , a result of which the Atmah is seen and anatmah is seen as anatmah.” (34)

“When the Chit becomes Sat (true) with this technique then the Sanchit karam together with the mann (mind) are burnt away. Just as a building together with seeds is burnt , then the seeds are incapable of regrowth.” (35)

“Kiriaman are those karam which are performed on a daily basis. They do not come into fruition for the Gyani (wise). The reason for non-fruition are:-

The Kiria (daily actions) that is performed as a result of Pararabdh is done so with ego of anatam.” (36)

“That Kiria becomes kiriaman karam , i.e. those which are done with Deh Abhyman (bodily ego). That Kiriaman then transforms into sanchit and Pararabdh. The Gyani (knowledgeable) has become kirialess owing to the fact that he has lost the ego. His karam will never come into fruition.” (37)

“Just as eating food is a kiria which gives energy.” (38)

“Consider this to be kiriaman. If the body is ill then eating food will not remove the ailment. Only the fit and healthy benefit and become stronger. Just as eating roti is a kiria , consider that to be pararabdh. From this kiria the body becomes stronger. This strength is the result of eating , i.e. roti becomes strength , thus kiria has become pararabdh.” (39)

“The kiria that is done under the influence of Abhyman (ego)

Will grow and come into fruition. The Gyani does not come under the influence of Tann Abhyman (body/self ego) , and as such his karam do not tie him down.” (40)

“The Mala (Rosary) of karam hangs around the neck of all but the ones who have lost Tann Hangtah (self/ego) have removed this mala. Without removing Tann Hangtah (self/ego) many Kalesh (pains/sorrows etc.) are given rise to. Births and deaths are thus entered into.” (41)





“Hau vich ayah..............Hau vich gaya”

(Sri Asa di vaar).



“That is why Satguru Ji has emphasised this in SGGS Ji so many times. Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji has stated in Asa Di vaar that the person comes to be born because of Hankaar (self ego) , they leave with self ego too. They are born with hankaar and die with hankaraar.” (42)

“It is not possible to count such persons. In SGGS Ji it is stated over and over again that do not engage in hankaar (self ego). All misery is due to such thought/actions. Upon receiving dukh (pain/sorrow/misery etc.) they regret over and over again.” (43)

“Countless births have to be endured by that person owing to Abhyman (self/ego) and after misery and suffering they die. Attachment etc is one of many vices. Tann Hangtah (body/ego) is a direct result of agyantah (ignorance).” (44)

The person who is recipient of Guru Ji’s Kirpa (grace) , their Tann Hangtah (body/ego) is removed. By imparting Tatt Updesh (Divine knowledge) Guru Ji engage them in Naam Simran (Waheguru Meditation). The misery of births and deaths is thus eradicated.” (45)

...............To be continued.................

[DalbirSingh]

So if a girl was raped she deserved it for her past life karmas? We shouldn't save her either if we could as it would intervene with her karmas punishment going against god's justice?