*** Urgent *** Must Watch & Record *** Leicester Grooming Gang **

[TandooriSingh]

True, but we have taken the pursuit of promotion of the Punjabi language to a next level; where it easily overshadows the importance of the promotion and propagation of the distinct Sikh identity.

The fact is that our culture is NOT Panjabi.

It never has been and never will be. Panjabi culture was created by, and belongs to, the majority muslims of Panjaab. Anyone who seriously believes that Sikhs would create a culture that runs totally opposite to the teachings of the Guru's needs their heads tested.

Moreover, we couldn't have created a Panjabi culture even if we wanted to. Since it is widely acknowledged that Sikhs formed less than 15% of the population of greater, undivided Panjaab, even after the great proselytising success of the Singh Sabha movement; how were we supposed to impose our way of life on the 85+% majority???

__________________________________________________________________

The truth is that we HAD our own distinct KHALSA culture;

But we abandoned it very quickly, soon after we came into massive power in Panjaab, some 30+ years after the misl's were formed on a purely KHALSA foundation;

During the late 1700's, when there was a vacuum of power, created by the impotence of the later Mughal administration, and the frequent absence of the de facto rulers, like Ahmed Shah Abdali, from Panjaab.

Why??? I don't know. I guess the temptation to emulate the Mughals in terms of hedonism and excess was too strong, once the misl's could ruler freely, didn't have to go into repeated hiding, and had considerable proceeds from rakhi money.

So we adopted the muslim panjabi culture (which itself is a local adaptation of the indian mughal culture); which consisted of, though not exclusively; wining and dining, multiple women, excessive sharaab consumption, promiscuity, lots of meat, women wearing lots of make up ("shingaar") and jewellery, and generally having a good time.

__________________________________________________________________

[sikh men getting absolutely hammered, or even drinking alcohol at all, and Sikh women getting dolled up in what was, for back then, the equivalent of mini skirts and tight tops of today, was absolutely, totally f'n unheard of in the early 1700's.

The same insanity was considered 'normal' for Sikhs in the early 1800's.

Look how we fell.]

__________________________________________________________________

Then what happened???

What did we gain from this cultural "advancement"/change???

Nothing.

Absolutely nothing.

The result is all plain to see. We gained nothing, but we lost everything.

At the end of the 18th century, we were, in some ways, lucky to have Maharaja Ranjit Singh. For all his many faults, he was still an exceptionally strong and politically astute leader, the kind that comes around only once in a few generations; and this helped to mask all the deficiencies that were slowly creeping into Sikh society during his dictatorial reign. He was strong, clever and ambitious enough to be able to overcome the smaller misl's, and merge the others with his own through diplomacy, and thus chalk out, a large, united, strong, so-called "Sikh" kingdom.

Albeit heavily weakened by the gradual moral slide/degredation of higher Sikh society, the Khalsa Culture was still kept burning, during this period,by a small, but vocal, and distinct, minority of Kattar Singh Soormeh, the likes of, to name a few; Sardar Hari Singh Ji Nalwa, Sardar Sham Singh Ji Attari, and Akali Nihang Baba Phoola Singh Ji. These heroes acted as a magnet force to slow down the inevitable moral slide, that would have happened even faster, had these Kattar Singh's not been in full public view.

__________________________________________________________________

But, after the Maharaja's demise, chaos ensued.

Especially so within the royal household, where none of the Maharaja's elder sons were able to manage the mess, partly because that's where the hypocrisy and duality, with regards a reinforced "Punjabi" identity, as opposed to a purely Sikh one, started from; where the rot stated.

Children are impacted by adults' changes in behaviour far more than we adults think; the secularism, opulism, hedonism and excess, so adopted by the Maharaja, that is totally alien to Khalsa Culture, had clearly rubbed off on his sons.

Blame the Dogra's or not (in fact; they wouldn't have even been in a remote position of power had secularism not crept into upper Sikh society); the fact is that we weren't strong enough, to retain the empire, in the mid 1800's, even with far better weaponry and far more manpower;

Than we were, to build the empire, in the mid 1700's, with far simpler weaponry and much smaller forces, when we possessed PURE KHALSA CULTURE.

__________________________________________________________________

The rise and fall of Sikh power is directly related to our change in attitudes toward Sikhi, and our resultant abandon of our indigenous Khalsa Culture, given to us by Dasmesh Pita, in favour of the adoption of the foreign ("malechh") muslim "Punjabi" culture.

We make so many excuses for it these days, and try to blame it all exclusively on the Dogra's.

But the fact remains that we wouldn't even have had non-Sikhs (which they originally were) in the Khalsa Raj in. the first place if we had stuck with our own Khalsa Culture, rather than adopting a horrible self-hating brand of secularism, which turned out to be the equivalent of shooting ourselves in the foot.

It's as if Dasven Patshah is giving us a clear and unambiguous lesson.

The question is, Sikhs; are we going to take it?

__________________________________________________________________

Dasven Patshah took a valuable stone (diamond), and threw it into the river.

They asked a Singh, why did that diamond sink?

The Singh answered, because it's heavier than the water, that's why the diamond sank.

They asked another Singh, why did that diamond sink?

The other Singh said, because it went into the water with force, that's why the diamond sank.

Then, Dasmesh Pita asked Bhai Daya Singh (pehle pyare). Why did that diamond sink?

Bhai Daya Singh answered

"Dasven Patshah, I don't know why that diamond sank.

All I know, is just one thing.

That;

Whoever, and Whatever, that left the sanctuary of YOUR Protection, Pita Jee;

SANK TODAY, AND WILL REMAIN SUNK FOR EVER MORE!"

DHAN DHAN DASMESH PITA - PUTRA DA DAANI !!!!!

:)

Sorry but you're totally WRONG on the Punjabi matter.

Fact is if Sikhi WASN'T from Punjab, it would probably have been eaten alive by Muslims just like Buddhism has been in India (where Buddhism was born and at one point the official religion). Hindus only survived centuries of horror because of their massive population, which Sikhs have never had.

So WHY were we able to survive and win out with such modest numbers? It's because Sikhs are Punjabi and inherited all of the ALREADY EXISTING strength Punjab had to offer. Guru Hargobind was trained in that Punjabi warrior culture and was a skilled martial artist (Shastarvidya) and hunter, and he mandated that Sikhs follow his example, arm themselves and always be prepared to fight. This in turn gave even more reasons to inspire warrior tribes like Jats, Rajputs and Shaivites to join Sikhi if they hadn't already.

There is a REASON most Sikhs are Jat, and why they have always been the backbone of Sikh/Indian armies. Some people are inspired by spirituality, some people by the high moral code, some people by the arts (which Sikhi promotes more than any other faith), some people by independance (freedom from Islamic oppressors), and some people by the martial traditions. There is something for EVERYONE in Sikhi.

Jats have never been very spiritual people (I mean look at us ) and never got on well with Brahmins, but they were incredibly impressed by martial traditions. For them Sikhi became too good a deal to pass up.

You HAD to be a Sikh to be a well respected fighter, it was the COOL thing to do. Sikhs have forgotten how incredibly important the cool factor was for Sikhi to grow like it did. If you don't FORCE people to join you (like Islam), or lie to them (again, Islam), the only think left to convince them is by being something so cool they are inspired to be part of it.

Sikhi absorbed and rebranded the existing warrior culture, learned the ancient techniques of Shastarvidya and combat strategy. Now in the modern day Sikhs are the ONLY ones carrying on that martial heritage of North India, it practically belongs to us.

===================================================================================================

What you need to understand is...

Sikhs by our VERY NATURE are quite hippy. Our values are as fair, liberal conservative and secular as they come (which we should be proud of). The fact that we have such high moral standards is NOT simply because morality and the importance of marriage (unlike in atheism) is encoded into Sikhi, it's ALSO because we come from a Patriarchal Punjabi culture that EXPECTS men to be men and women to be women.

Remember that women in Punjab even now DO NOT drink, and would never be expected to. Punjab still has that incredibly macho and rural culture, and the women don't behave anything like supposedly 'liberated' women here do.

Now am I saying Punjabi culture is perfect? Hell no, far from it. Punjab is plagued with problems, most of which have been forced on it. I'm saying there needs to be a balance.

Sikhi WITHOUT Punjabi = Hippy.

Punjabi WITHOUT Sikhi = Jock.

Sikhi PLUS Punjabi = Khalsa.

===================================================================================================

Punjabi culture has NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH MUSLIMS. It's been there since ancient times.

Sikhs didn't suddenly pop up out of the ground, our ancestors were mostly Hindu and CHOSE to become Sikhs to free themselves from the corrupted mess that is Hinduism (corrupted due to the passing of time, repeated Muslim invasions and retarded Brahmin control and casteism), the idol worship of illogical Hindu Gods which obviously don't exist, and of course their Islamic oppressors at the time destroying their ancient culture.

Sikhs even NOW visit Hindu Mandir's to preserve that part of their history, if only just for fun. Just because we left Hinduism behind doesn't mean it should be forgotten.

Sikhs even NOW pay respect to village shrines called 'Juggah', which honour the ancestor who created the village. This is part of the Punjabi Folk Religion.

This is stuff Sikhs do in Punjab as we speak, I know my family does. Personally I found it all INCREDIBLY confusing in my younger years going there on holiday since it was just NORMAL for them and nothing was ever explained.

What else points to Punjabi culture having nothing to do with Muslims? Well.

Punjabi is not an officially recognised language in Pakistan and they're trying to phase it out. Why? It's because they consider it to be the language of the Sikhs. They'd like to pretend they were never ruled by Sikhs, descended from kaffir's themselves, and that they're just like their Arab masters. They are attempting to destroy their history and adopt Urdu (their halfway point between Middle Eastern and Indian languages) and generic ISLAMIC CULTURE.

Hell even Hindu's consider it to be the language of the Sikhs. That's why around the time of the Punjabi Suba, Punjabi Hindu's were goaded into supporting Hindu Nationalism and Hindi, a language they could barely speak. Punjab was then lazily divided and whole Punjabi speaking Hindu populations were totally cut off from their homeland.

Punjabi music is almost ENTIRELY dominated by Sikhs. What would all the stupid 'Asian' radio stations play if not for us aside from Bollywood tunes?

Bhangra is a double edged sword, on the one hand it is the MAIN preserver of Punjabi culture in the UK. On the other hand it also unfortunately imitates modern music and comes with its share of crappy party songs that celebrate crappy morals (not all, most Bhangra songs are all about pride). Are we stronger thanks to Bhangra? Definitely, it gives us a banner to unite under.

What ELSE can we really say we've really allowed ourselves to excel at? Kabaddi? Sure we own that but that's not a bigtime sport yet.

Sikhs would be doing a LOT better in others sports like boxing if we just supported all the RIDICULOUS amounts of talent our people have. We're so outnumbered, we've always punched above our weight, and yet we STILL can't be bothered to support each other. Pathetic.

Think about this... The SECOND the Muslims have a single person to rally behind, they are instantly throwing money at them. The first British Asian Boxing Champion was Harry Dhami, and yet he doesn't even have a WIKIPEDIA PAGE. On the other hand everyone knows who Amir Khan is... Not to mention Muslims do this with EVERYTHING, they even have sites dedicated to listing crappy Halal shops.

The only films in Punjabi that get any attention are those made by Sikhs, and the industry in Punjab is starting to explode now which is a great thing for us. We need to separate ourselves from Bollywood which has never represented us. The Bollywood 'love story' is a giant sack of crap.

And of course Punjabi was the language of our Sikh Guru's, so for US it cannot be replaced.

Fact of the matter is, Sikhs have had an overwhelmingly bigger impact on the Punjabi identity worldwide than Muslims, especially after partition. The difference in population between Indian Punjab and Pakistani Punjab is totally IRRELEVANT, eventually NOBODY in Pakistani Punjab will be left who can even speak Punjabi, only Urdu.

Personally I think this is great. Sikhs didn't ASK to be the ones associated with Punjabi, but fate has ensured we are. Now we should be working hard to OWN Punjabi culture completely, that's thousands of years of history that belongs ONLY to us.

===================================================================================================

What am I ultimately getting at here?

Sikhs (being inherently liberal) have integrated FAR too well, we've become a bunch of coconuts and adopted the many weaknesses of the white people and this 'modern' culture.

Western culture has now become SO overwhelmingly atheist (the church becoming less and less culturally relevant), feminist pandering, politically correct and blindly liberal almost socialist, that it's come to the point where society has no backbone, little moral fibre, and no actual value when it comes to marriage. The old culture of Britain is being WIPED out right in front of the white populations eyes and there's nothing they feel they can do about it, they're incredibly downtrodden.

Look at how the overwhelmingly white population (90%) of the UK stood back for over a decade and did nothing as their children were being destroyed in plain sight. The police didn't care, the councils didn't care. There are plenty of chavs out there carrying knives, but they didn't care either.

I love white people I really do, but the facts are just damning.

Our Punjabi boys (most of them likely mona) on the other hand risk their future to assault that crappy little restaurant. No matter WHAT the police say, they got the right place, they wrecked the right shop, and they stabbed one of the guys involved (who eventually went to jail). We ALL know they did the right thing, and most of the internet knows it too.

You know what they've called that shop now? It used to be the Moghul Darbar. NOW it's been reopened as the 'Desi Dera'! HAHAHAHA Like some kinda screwed up peace offering. Still Halal of course...

WHAT would have happened if those Sikhs just did a peaceful protest about it instead? NOTHING that's what.

The Punjabi way worked. Shere Punjab and all the Seva they did worked. If the Sikh community just ACCEPTED our vigilante nature and didn't marginalize the very people trying to wake them up and solve their problems as troublemakers, well we wouldn't be talking about this crap EVEN NOW would we? We COULD have Shere Punjab on standby in every major city by now like the Sikh Misls back in the old days, but we don't.

It's high time to STOP blaming the girls. None of this is their fault, almost all of it is totally avoidable.

It is the older generation and the Gurdwara's that have TOTALLY failed us. Western Sikhs are taught absolutely NOTHING about Sikhi at the Gurdwara, and learning Gurmukhi at 'Punjabi School' doesn't achieve anything. Not only that, but ANY solutions of any kind by the younger generation have been soundly rejected by the Gurdwara's. Arguments turn into fights and the police get called in.

Our education systems are so bad that's it's almost LITERALLY the case that it's only kids from Amritdhari families that are taught and have any real familiarity with Sikhi.

The rest of us can't even name our 10 Guru's nevermind what order they come in. It's a COMPLETELY different world we live in. Going to Gurdwara has become a ritual, the idea of actually partaking like getting on the stage and singing some Gurbani (supposed to be open to all Sikhs) is some wierd alien concept, and the truth is the Gurdwara probably wouldn't allow it anyway...

How can a child ever be expected to learn about and love Sikhi, Punjab and their history by themselves? Aside from researching obscure boring websites that haven't been updated for a decade? This is why Basics of Sikhi is like the best thing to happen to the panth for a longass time.

If our children aren't taught OUR culture/history (both Sikhi and Punjabi) they are disarmed, gullible and weak with no frame of reference and will just latch onto whatever culture they are exposed to be it acting like they're White or even 'Urban Youth'. Punjabi culture through Bhangra has at least been SOMEWHAT able to step in and fill in the gaping ignorance.

Kids don't even know that Islam was an INVADING force in India, simply knowing that tiny bit of context alone kinda changes EVERYTHING. Do you expect the schools to teach this stuff? Good luck!!!

We sometimes get Sikhs from Canada on this forum wondering what the hell is wrong with us in the UK, how is child grooming even a REAL THING here? They wonder if it's something that's coming their way once the Muslim population grows.

Surrey is basically mini-Punjab, moreso than Southall. The Punjabi culture is ridiculously strong over there because of all the immigration. Frankly Canadian Sikhs are nutty, they were stupid enough to blow up a plane once after all...

They've had guys like Bindy Johal in the limelight. We have spineless idiots like Param Singh. Bindy Johal was a goddamn criminal, but you can respect the fact that he would never have allowed this grooming crap to happen for a second, he would have had them all executed.

If they STAY Punjabi in Canada, then honestly they probably don't have much to worry about...

What we need to do is to throw away this ridiculous Western attitude that has crept into and rotted our panth, it's done us NO favours. We need to embrace Punjabi JOR, not undermine it. NO more of this 'brown unity' and 'Asian' crap either, which is only ever used against us.

Muslims will ALWAYS act like Muslims, Islamic culture DEMANDS UNIFORMITY. Why can't we behave like Sikhs? Not Westerners. Not Pacifists. But actual Punjabi Sikhs.

A Khalsa that is NOT WILLING to fight, kill and die... is no Khalsa at all. Sikhs in the past endured such crazy amounts of pain and came out on top, and now here we are... paralyzed over some pathetic bottom feeding child rapists?

Muslims should FEAR Sikhs, because any evil against us will be met with nothing but bloody brutality. Filthy cowards only do things when they think they can get away with it.

Police should FEAR Sikhs, because we don't care about their arbritary laws and their 'community cohesion', and we'd leave groomers dead in the streets for them to clean up (burying things under the rug and tidying is all the police seem to be good for...).

Singh means LION right? Well... lions have never lived in Britain. They lived in Punjab.

[ThunderousDominator]

Sorry but you're totally WRONG on the Punjabi matter.

Fact is if Sikhi WASN'T from Punjab, it would probably have been eaten alive by Muslims just like Buddhism has been in India (where Buddhism was born and at one point the official religion). Hindus only survived centuries of horror because of their massive population, which Sikhs have never had.

So WHY were we able to survive and win out with such modest numbers? It's because Sikhs are Punjabi and inherited all of the ALREADY EXISTING strength Punjab had to offer. Guru Hargobind was trained in that Punjabi warrior culture and was a skilled martial artist (Shastarvidya) and hunter, and he mandated that Sikhs follow his example, arm themselves and always be prepared to fight. This in turn gave even more reasons to inspire warrior tribes like Jats, Rajputs and Shaivites to join Sikhi if they hadn't already.

There is a REASON most Sikhs are Jat, and why they have always been the backbone of Sikh/Indian armies. Some people are inspired by spirituality, some people by the high moral code, some people by the arts (which Sikhi promotes more than any other faith), some people by independance (freedom from Islamic oppressors), and some people by the martial traditions. There is something for EVERYONE in Sikhi.

Jats have never been very spiritual people (I mean look at us ) and never got on well with Brahmins, but they were incredibly impressed by martial traditions. For them Sikhi became too good a deal to pass up.

You HAD to be a Sikh to be a well respected fighter, it was the COOL thing to do. Sikhs have forgotten how incredibly important the cool factor was for Sikhi to grow like it did. If you don't FORCE people to join you (like Islam), or lie to them (again, Islam), the only think left to convince them is by being something so cool they are inspired to be part of it.

Sikhi absorbed and rebranded the existing warrior culture, learned the ancient techniques of Shastarvidya and combat strategy. Now in the modern day Sikhs are the ONLY ones carrying on that martial heritage of North India, it practically belongs to us.

===================================================================================================

What you need to understand is...

Sikhs by our VERY NATURE are quite hippy. Our values are as fair, liberal conservative and secular as they come (which we should be proud of). The fact that we have such high moral standards is NOT simply because morality and the importance of marriage (unlike in atheism) is encoded into Sikhi, it's ALSO because we come from a Patriarchal Punjabi culture that EXPECTS men to be men and women to be women.

Remember that women in Punjab even now DO NOT drink, and would never be expected to. Punjab still has that incredibly macho and rural culture, and the women don't behave anything like supposedly 'liberated' women here do.

Now am I saying Punjabi culture is perfect? Hell no, far from it. Punjab is plagued with problems, most of which have been forced on it. I'm saying there needs to be a balance.

Sikhi WITHOUT Punjabi = Hippy.

Punjabi WITHOUT Sikhi = Jock.

Sikhi PLUS Punjabi = Khalsa.

===================================================================================================

Punjabi culture has NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH MUSLIMS. It's been there since ancient times.

Sikhs didn't suddenly pop up out of the ground, our ancestors were mostly Hindu and CHOSE to become Sikhs to free themselves from the corrupted mess that is Hinduism (corrupted due to the passing of time, repeated Muslim invasions and retarded Brahmin control and casteism), the idol worship of illogical Hindu Gods which obviously don't exist, and of course their Islamic oppressors at the time destroying their ancient culture.

Sikhs even NOW visit Hindu Mandir's to preserve that part of their history, if only just for fun. Just because we left Hinduism behind doesn't mean it should be forgotten.

Sikhs even NOW pay respect to village shrines called 'Juggah', which honour the ancestor who created the village. This is part of the Punjabi Folk Religion.

This is stuff Sikhs do in Punjab as we speak, I know my family does. Personally I found it all INCREDIBLY confusing in my younger years going there on holiday since it was just NORMAL for them and nothing was ever explained.

What else points to Punjabi culture having nothing to do with Muslims? Well.

Punjabi is not an officially recognised language in Pakistan and they're trying to phase it out. Why? It's because they consider it to be the language of the Sikhs. They'd like to pretend they were never ruled by Sikhs, descended from kaffir's themselves, and that they're just like their Arab masters. They are attempting to destroy their history and adopt Urdu (their halfway point between Middle Eastern and Indian languages) and generic ISLAMIC CULTURE.

Hell even Hindu's consider it to be the language of the Sikhs. That's why around the time of the Punjabi Suba, Punjabi Hindu's were goaded into supporting Hindu Nationalism and Hindi, a language they could barely speak. Punjab was then lazily divided and whole Punjabi speaking Hindu populations were totally cut off from their homeland.

Punjabi music is almost ENTIRELY dominated by Sikhs. What would all the stupid 'Asian' radio stations play if not for us aside from Bollywood tunes?

Bhangra is a double edged sword, on the one hand it is the MAIN preserver of Punjabi culture in the UK. On the other hand it also unfortunately imitates modern music and comes with its share of crappy party songs that celebrate crappy morals (not all, most Bhangra songs are all about pride). Are we stronger thanks to Bhangra? Definitely, it gives us a banner to unite under.

What ELSE can we really say we've really allowed ourselves to excel at? Kabaddi? Sure we own that but that's not a bigtime sport yet.

Sikhs would be doing a LOT better in others sports like boxing if we just supported all the RIDICULOUS amounts of talent our people have. We're so outnumbered, we've always punched above our weight, and yet we STILL can't be bothered to support each other. Pathetic.

Think about this... The SECOND the Muslims have a single person to rally behind, they are instantly throwing money at them. The first British Asian Boxing Champion was Harry Dhami, and yet he doesn't even have a WIKIPEDIA PAGE. On the other hand everyone knows who Amir Khan is... Not to mention Muslims do this with EVERYTHING, they even have sites dedicated to listing crappy Halal shops.

The only films in Punjabi that get any attention are those made by Sikhs, and the industry in Punjab is starting to explode now which is a great thing for us. We need to separate ourselves from Bollywood which has never represented us. The Bollywood 'love story' is a giant sack of crap.

And of course Punjabi was the language of our Sikh Guru's, so for US it cannot be replaced.

Fact of the matter is, Sikhs have had an overwhelmingly bigger impact on the Punjabi identity worldwide than Muslims, especially after partition. The difference in population between Indian Punjab and Pakistani Punjab is totally IRRELEVANT, eventually NOBODY in Pakistani Punjab will be left who can even speak Punjabi, only Urdu.

Personally I think this is great. Sikhs didn't ASK to be the ones associated with Punjabi, but fate has ensured we are. Now we should be working hard to OWN Punjabi culture completely, that's thousands of years of history that belongs ONLY to us.

===================================================================================================

What am I ultimately getting at here?

Sikhs (being inherently liberal) have integrated FAR too well, we've become a bunch of coconuts and adopted the many weaknesses of the white people and this 'modern' culture.

Western culture has now become SO overwhelmingly atheist (the church becoming less and less culturally relevant), feminist pandering, politically correct and blindly liberal almost socialist, that it's come to the point where society has no backbone, little moral fibre, and no actual value when it comes to marriage. The old culture of Britain is being WIPED out right in front of the white populations eyes and there's nothing they feel they can do about it, they're incredibly downtrodden.

Look at how the overwhelmingly white population (90%) of the UK stood back for over a decade and did nothing as their children were being destroyed in plain sight. The police didn't care, the councils didn't care. There are plenty of chavs out there carrying knives, but they didn't care either.

I love white people I really do, but the facts are just damning.

Our Punjabi boys (most of them likely mona) on the other hand risk their future to assault that crappy little restaurant. No matter WHAT the police say, they got the right place, they wrecked the right shop, and they stabbed one of the guys involved (who eventually went to jail). We ALL know they did the right thing, and most of the internet knows it too.

You know what they've called that shop now? It used to be the Moghul Darbar. NOW it's been reopened as the 'Desi Dera'! HAHAHAHA Like some kinda screwed up peace offering. Still Halal of course...

WHAT would have happened if those Sikhs just did a peaceful protest about it instead? NOTHING that's what.

The Punjabi way worked. Shere Punjab and all the Seva they did worked. If the Sikh community just ACCEPTED our vigilante nature and didn't marginalize the very people trying to wake them up and solve their problems as troublemakers, well we wouldn't be talking about this crap EVEN NOW would we? We COULD have Shere Punjab on standby in every major city by now like the Sikh Misls back in the old days, but we don't.

It's high time to STOP blaming the girls. None of this is their fault, almost all of it is totally avoidable.

It is the older generation and the Gurdwara's that have TOTALLY failed us. Western Sikhs are taught absolutely NOTHING about Sikhi at the Gurdwara, and learning Gurmukhi at 'Punjabi School' doesn't achieve anything. Not only that, but ANY solutions of any kind by the younger generation have been soundly rejected by the Gurdwara's. Arguments turn into fights and the police get called in.

Our education systems are so bad that's it's almost LITERALLY the case that it's only kids from Amritdhari families that are taught and have any real familiarity with Sikhi.

The rest of us can't even name our 10 Guru's nevermind what order they come in. It's a COMPLETELY different world we live in. Going to Gurdwara has become a ritual, the idea of actually partaking like getting on the stage and singing some Gurbani (supposed to be open to all Sikhs) is some wierd alien concept, and the truth is the Gurdwara probably wouldn't allow it anyway...

How can a child ever be expected to learn about and love Sikhi, Punjab and their history by themselves? Aside from researching obscure boring websites that haven't been updated for a decade? This is why Basics of Sikhi is like the best thing to happen to the panth for a longass time.

If our children aren't taught OUR culture/history (both Sikhi and Punjabi) they are disarmed, gullible and weak with no frame of reference and will just latch onto whatever culture they are exposed to be it acting like they're White or even 'Urban Youth'. Punjabi culture through Bhangra has at least been SOMEWHAT able to step in and fill in the gaping ignorance.

Kids don't even know that Islam was an INVADING force in India, simply knowing that tiny bit of context alone kinda changes EVERYTHING. Do you expect the schools to teach this stuff? Good luck!!!

We sometimes get Sikhs from Canada on this forum wondering what the hell is wrong with us in the UK, how is child grooming even a REAL THING here? They wonder if it's something that's coming their way once the Muslim population grows.

Surrey is basically mini-Punjab, moreso than Southall. The Punjabi culture is ridiculously strong over there because of all the immigration. Frankly Canadian Sikhs are nutty, they were stupid enough to blow up a plane once after all...

They've had guys like Bindy Johal in the limelight. We have spineless idiots like Param Singh. Bindy Johal was a goddamn criminal, but you can respect the fact that he would never have allowed this grooming crap to happen for a second, he would have had them all executed.

If they STAY Punjabi in Canada, then honestly they probably don't have much to worry about...

What we need to do is to throw away this ridiculous Western attitude that has crept into and rotted our panth, it's done us NO favours. We need to embrace Punjabi JOR, not undermine it. NO more of this 'brown unity' and 'Asian' crap either, which is only ever used against us.

Muslims will ALWAYS act like Muslims, Islamic culture DEMANDS UNIFORMITY. Why can't we behave like Sikhs? Not Westerners. Not Pacifists. But actual Punjabi Sikhs.

A Khalsa that is NOT WILLING to fight, kill and die... is no Khalsa at all. Sikhs in the past endured such crazy amounts of pain and came out on top, and now here we are... paralyzed over some pathetic bottom feeding child rapists?

Muslims should FEAR Sikhs, because any evil against us will be met with nothing but bloody brutality. Filthy cowards only do things when they think they can get away with it.

Police should FEAR Sikhs, because we don't care about their arbritary laws and their 'community cohesion', and we'd leave groomers dead in the streets for them to clean up (burying things under the rug and tidying is all the police seem to be good for...).

Singh means LION right? Well... lions have never lived in Britain. They lived in Punjab.

so much bs in this post....

[Jonny101]

Tandoori Singh Jee, you have made some valid points but I have to disagree with some

Sikhs are not brave because they are 'Punjabi Sikhs' rather it's the reverse that's true: Punjabis Sikhs are brave because they are Sikhs. Before the Sikh Guru blessed us Punjabis with Sikhi, where was our bravery? why didn't Anakh of the Punjabis get moved when Afghan and Turk warriors from the North West would come and forcibly take way their daughters and sisters? Nearly half of the Punjabi population converted to Islam out of fear and other other lived in constant fear while retaining their faith.

Guru Jee changed all of that, especially Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee who turned the sheep like Punjabis into roaring lions on the battle field. For the first time in India's history, an Indian ethnicity faced the Pathans and beat them and even managed to do the impossible and rule over them(NW frontier). This was all the power of Bani and Rehit that Guru Jee bestowed upon us. So all glory and praise should be reserved for Sikhi.

But I agree with your other point about Punjabi Sikhs in the west getting too westernized. The old western culture was not bad. But today's modern western culture as it is practiced in western europe and North America is a culture which promotes men to lose their manliness and become very emasculate in nature. Just look at any movie or tv show, nearly all the male figures are shown as being very feminine almost to the extent of aping homosexual behavior. Today you can barely tell the different between a straight man and a homosexual in the west, they look, walk, talk, dress and behave almost he same! On the other hand women are brainwashed into denying their feminine nature and instead are encouraged to become full fledged feminists. Punjabi Sikhs growing up the west have only managed to emulate these behaviors of their western counterparts. Most of our boys(who are currently 25 and under) are losing their manliness while our girls act like they are some spoiled bollywood actresses.

[UKLondonSikh]

UK = On this occasion I have to respectfully diagree with certain viewpoints.

UK = Four of the Panj Pyaaray were non-Punjabi's. That indicates where our jor and bravery stems from.

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/66388-four-of-the-5-pyaaray-were-not-punjabi/

UK = Also the majority of Sikhs are not from the Jatt tribal identity (but the percentage is currently just slightly under 50%)

UK = The majority of Jatts are proud Punjabi Muslim Jatts like Pakistan's 1st Prime Minister or Hindu Jatt's like Sajjan Kumar

UK = Punjabi's were constantly the slaves of outsiders until such point that Sikhi liberated us to become Singhs.

UK = It should be remembered that up until Dhan Dhan Guru HarGobind Sahib Ji Maharaj up to half of our Qaum were ex-Muslims.

UK = Bhangra does indeed preserve links with the Punjabi language, however, when a Muslim Jatt record labels propagates casteist songs, promotes alcohol and drugs useage and encourages materialism then it is de facto acting as a cultural cancer within our youth.

UK = Bindy Johal should not be hero worshipped in BC amongst our youth. Anyone who sells drugs disqualifies themselves from being called Sikh. Nevertheless, it doesn't hurt us to utilise any sense of justice held by anyone within the wider community (not least our own) to combat Muslim paedophiles from emulating the Prophet Muhammad's achievements. SP did a great job in that respect.

UK = We need to urgently accept our sehajdhari (and non-Punjabi) brothers and sisters as fully haqdaar Sikhs rather than marginalising them.

UK = Tandoori Singh you were 100% absolutely correct that our enemies should always fear us (rather than the opposite way round).

[Shaastar]

love punjabiat and love sikhi. dont matter what caste any1 is.

youth these days r becoming close minded. Back in infant school just after the 1984 riots we had a family from the bhappa community in mumbai move on our rd who were directly affected by what happened back home..theey were chased out.

not only did this family become focal in the gurdwara seva , rohl recitation in london but the sons and daughter were easily amulgumated with 15 other punjabi lads in our group.In those days if u didnt stick together you got busted by the skinheads..

now you hear of sangats dividing off.. it dont need to be like that. My youth days included Sikhs from various backgrounds. We even had 2 anakhi pathaans from a diff religion who preffered to hang around with indo punjabi sikhs because of who we were and what we stood by.

[Jeevan]

Patricia Hewitt called for age of consent to be lowered to ten Former Labour cabinet minister apologises for links to paedophile group in 1970s and admits she 'got it wrong'

Former Labour cabinet minister Patricia Hewitt Photo: PAUL GROVER

By Georgia Graham, Political Correspondent

8:39AM GMT 28 Feb 2014

Patricia Hewitt was forced to apologise after it was revealed that she had called for the age of sexual consent to be lowered to ten.

The document published in the former Labour cabinet minister’s name also called for incest to be legalised.

A National Council for Civil Liberties (NCCL) press release quoted in The Sun issued in Miss Hewitt’s sole name in Mach 1976 read: “NCCL proposes that the age of consent should be lowered to 14, with special provision for situations where the partners are close in age or where the consent of a child over ten can be proved.”

The document, which relates to an NCCL report on sexual law reformed continues: "The report argues that the crime of incest should be abolished.

“In our view, no benefit accrues to anyone by making incest a crime when committed between mutually consenting persons over the age of consent.”

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  26 Feb 2014

• Patricia Hewitt says sorry for her role in paedophile controversy

  27 Feb 2014

Miss Hewitt, who was general secretary of the NCCL from 1974 to 1983 said: "I take responsibility for the mistakes we made. I got it wrong on PIE and I apologise for having done so.

Miss Hewitt finally broke her silence and apologised for her role in the scandal after The Telegraph asked her to explain why the NCCL of which she was general secretary had pledged it’s “protection and support” for prominent paedophile group the Paedophile Information Exchange (PIE).

Miss Hewitt said she had been out of the country for the past 12 days as the scandal over the links has been growing and apologised for her association with the group.

She said: “NCCL in the 1970s, along with many others, was naïve and wrong to accept PIE's claim to be a ‘campaigning and counselling organisation that ‘does not promote unlawful acts’.

"I should have urged the council to take strong measures to protect NCCL’s integrity from the activities of PIE members and sympathisers and I deeply regret not having done so."

Miss Hewitt later became press secretary to Labour leader Neil Kinnock. She was an MP for 13 years to 2010 and served as a Health Secretary in the last Labour government.

Her admissions place further pressure on Harriet Harman, the deputy Labour Leader who served as legal officer for the NCCL from 1976 to offer a full apology for her own links to the paedophile organisation.

Miss Hewitt’s frank admission that “got it wrong” contrasts sharply with Miss Harman’s insistence that she has “nothing to apologise for.”

Miss Harman has insisted that PIE was confronted by NCCL in 1976 and “pushed them to the margins.”

However pressure was building on her to offer a full apology over links. Rob Wilson, the Tory MP for Reading East, said: “It is right and welcome that Patricia Hewitt has apologised.

“It makes it hard to see why others involved would not wish to do the same.”

http://www.telegraph...red-to-ten.html

[Premi5]

Sikhs even NOW visit Hindu Mandir's to preserve that part of their history, if only just for fun. Just because we left Hinduism behind doesn't mean it should be forgotten.

Sikhs even NOW pay respect to village shrines called 'Juggah', which honour the ancestor who created the village. This is part of the Punjabi Folk Religion.

*Bump

TandooriSingh, I agreed with some of your points, but I strongly believe that these two above points are related to things which 'Sikhs' definitely should be well distanced from.

Does anyone know what the latest is with this trial/what the outcome was for the defendants? Also, why do females from the groomer community not speak out against these happenings?

http://www.englishdefenceleague.org/muslim-grooming-gang-abused-leicester-sikh-girl/

Muslim Grooming Gang Abused Leicester Sikh Girl (from March 2013)

Leicester Magistrates Court has this month been hearing a case involving the alleged sexual exploitation of a 16 year old girl.

Five men have been remanded in custody and one bailed for a total of 22 charges involving child prostitution, human trafficking and paying for sex with a child.

Although the Leicester Mercury didn’t think it worth mentioning, this is clearly another example of a Muslim grooming gang – that much is clear from the names of the accused. The five held on remand are: Aabidali Mubarak Ali,Rakib Iacub, Hamza Imtiazali, Bharat Modhwadia and WajidUsman Ullah.

Of course, we can hardly expect the paper to mention Islam. So desperate has the press been to exclude any discussion of religion from these kinds of story that they’ve developed an obsession with the term ‘Asian’ (something we’ve discussedbefore). Not only is this unfair on other ‘Asian’ communities, but it detracts from what many believe to be an important motivating factor in these crimes: the status of women and non-Muslims in Islam.

In this case we have discovered that the victim was, in fact, a local Sikh girl.

Long before she was attacked, the girl’s father, a university lecturer, became concerned that his daughter was associating with the wrong crowd. Eventually, after a number of warning signs, he managed to gain access to her Facebook account,where he immediately uncovered evidence that she was being groomed for sex.

This he took to the police. But to no avail. No action was taken, and despite his repeated efforts, he was ultimately unable to prevent his daughter from being abused. Another young life ruined and a father overcome with guilt and anger: guilt that he was unable to do more, anger at the perpetrators, but also anger at the police for letting him and his daughterdown so badly.

It was with this in mind that Sikh vigilantes attacked the Moghul Durbar restaurant in Leicester, run by one of the defendants, Wajid Usman Ullah. Two men were seriously injured.

These aren’t actions we can condone, but they are a sign ofhow desperate things have become. The leaders of the Sikh community no doubt understand and share some of the anger that motivated these young men but, to their credit, they immediately condemned the attack.

British Sikhs have reason to be proud. If there’s even a hint of extremism in their community they deal with it, and Sikhs have proved over generations that they have no problem integrating themselves into British culture. They may be a relatively small minority, but we’re proud that we’ve had the opportunity to stand side-by-side with members of the Sikh community at a number of our past demonstrations.

Sikhs are, of course, no strangers to Muslim aggression. In fact, one of the great heroes of the Sikh religion, Guru GobindSingh, is remembered as the man who, in the 17th century, fought to free the Sikh people from the tyranny of the Muslim Mughal emperors – one the most brutal regimes in history.

When British Sikhs look at their Muslim neighbours they are unlikely to see their ancient oppressors. But what they do seeis a community that, despite being plagued with problems,nonetheless believes itself deserving of the respect that the Sikh community has worked hard to earn. What’s worse is that the government also seems to believe that Islam is deserving of our respect, regardless of whether it actually does anything to address segregation, extremism and the scandal of Muslim grooming gangs.

No wonder British Sikhs are frustrated. And when they findthemselves the victims of Islamic extremism should we be surprised if they question whether the authorities can be trusted to deal with the problem?

Leicester’s Sikhs, as well as the rest of the community, are owed answers as to why the police failed to intervene when presented with compelling evidence of grooming. Without a convincing explanation, we believe that the police officer in charge of the case must be dismissed.

To that end, we call upon Sir Clive Loader, the Police and Crime Commissioner elected by the people of Leicestershire, to investigate what went wrong and to reassure local people that the police are prepared to deal with grooming cases.

It should not have come to this. How many more atrocities, how many more hate preachers, how many more examples of Islamic separatism and supremacism, how many more grooming gangs before the authorities finally accept the extent of the problem?

How many more young lives have to be ruined before a father can go to the police and expect them to help him protect his daughter?

In the hope that we can bring further attention to this case, and perhaps even encourage further action to address the problem of Muslim grooming gangs, this article has been issued to:

Sir Clive Loader, Police and Crime Commissioner for Leicestershire

[West London Singh]

Punjabi culture has NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH MUSLIMS. It's been there since ancient time

My friend, Punjabi has far more to do with Islam and Muslims that you will ever know.

I'll give you just one example to set you on a self-voyage of discovery:

Question) What is OUR Punjabi word for bathroom ?

Answer) Gusulkhanna

Question) What does OUR punjabi word 'gusulkhanna' mean ?

Answer) Well, 'khanna' obviously means compartment or room so the real question is what does 'gusul' mean.

Well now, 'gusul' is the word that the prophet Mohammed gave and is from the Islamic Koran. He ordered that all Muslims must perform gusul before reading namaz. That is to say, they must perform a ritual whereby certain parts of the body have water sprinkled on them, for example water thrown over the left shoulder 3 times.

So.....OUR own beloved Punjabi word for bathroom means ' preparing to read the muslim prayer'.

Now that, is just one example I've given you. There's a million more showing how much our Punjabi culture, language, architecture is extremely heavily influenced by Islam.

Just have a look at the design and layout etc of a typical Punjab village. Looks absolutely nothing like a village in any other state in India but is identical to villlages in Iran and Afghanistan.

[Jonny101]

My friend, Punjabi has far more to do with Islam and Muslims that you will ever know.

I'll give you just one example to set you on a self-voyage of discovery:

Question) What is OUR Punjabi word for bathroom ?

Answer) Gusulkhanna

Question) What does OUR punjabi word 'gusulkhanna' mean ?

Answer) Well, 'khanna' obviously means compartment or room so the real question is what does 'gusul' mean.

Well now, 'gusul' is the word that the prophet Mohammed gave and is from the Islamic Koran. He ordered that all Muslims must perform gusul before reading namaz. That is to say, they must perform a ritual whereby certain parts of the body have water sprinkled on them, for example water thrown over the left shoulder 3 times.

So.....OUR own beloved Punjabi word for bathroom means ' preparing to read the muslim prayer'.

Now that, is just one example I've given you. There's a million more showing how much our Punjabi culture, language, architecture is extremely heavily influenced by Islam.

Just have a look at the design and layout etc of a typical Punjab village. Looks ar

Those are loanwords and were mostly spoken by educated Punjabis. The real rural Punjabis, especially the Sikhs used different words. For example Gusalkhan = Jangal-Pani. During the misl period when Sikhs faced severe persecution at the hands of the Muslims, the Singhs had developed their own (offensive) vocabulary in reaction to the persecution they faced from their Islamic foe. For example. when a Singh would go to relieve himself (call of nature) he would say "Mai Makkai Challa"(I am going to Makkah). A dog was called a Mullah. Later the Sikhs stopped using these offensive words.

[West London Singh]

Those are loanwords

'Loan words' from where ?

Punjabi is 900 years older than Hindi and Urdu is a brand new language........Both those languages have taken words from Punjabi, not the other way round.

But if you want to consider every word Punjabi has taken from Persian etc as a 'loan word' and discard it as such you're gonna be left with practically nothing as even the word 'Punjabi' is, by your definition, a 'loan word'.

and were mostly spoken by educated Punjabis.

I come from an uneducated rural family. There were no 'educated Punjabis' among my lot and they all knew that the punjabi word for bathroom is gusulkhanna.

The real rural Punjabis, especially the Sikhs used different words.

No they didn't. They were Punjabis who spoke Punjabi so they called it by it's Punjabi name : gusulkhanna.

Its just like some working class white english folks living in a council estate will often refer to the toilet as the bog or crapper. That doesn't mean they don't know what the correct English word for it is.

During the misl period when Sikhs faced severe persecution at the hands of the Muslims, the Singhs had developed their own (offensive) vocabulary in reaction to the persecution they faced from their Islamic foe. For example. when a Singh would go to relieve himself (call of nature) he would say "Mai Makkai Challa"(I am going to Makkah). A dog was called a Mullah.

No they didn't. You've been reading too many Kushwant Singh books romantcising the nihangs. You've read somewhere about a few nihangs using words like that and you've arbitrarily associated the word with every Sikh that existed at that time. Thats very silly.