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Do Only Khalsa Amritdhari Gursikhs Leave Reincarnation?


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Is Sargun Saroop of Maharaj permanent?

Sargun saroop of maharaj appear and disappear (unfold and fold) as per hakum of akaal purkh as gurbani does not get destroyed but appears and disappears (alop and loup). So to answer to your question, it is permanent because when is aloup/gupt its in deep non transcendental state (nirgun state) and when its pargat its in transcendental state (sargun) but whats common behind two states is never changing jot ~~ Supreme consciousness Awareness ~~ which is - Ikongkar gyan of naam/shabad itself....!!!!!!!

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This is the first thread where I have seen only five veer ji and neosingh veer ji not having an argument.

It should stay like this.

Agreeing, disagreeing and learning to develop further from these interactions is all part of sikhi.

There is no room for arguing or claiming that your view is correct only. In Sikhism, we all have our own views and we should know that only HE, Akaal Purakh the Ek Onkaar knows the Whole Truth and nothing but the Truth !

My farther used to say that you will learn more and get further in life if you keep your Eyes and Ears open whilst keeping your Mouth Shut !!

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Thanks to N30 for answering the questions. So in one of your first post you had stated the following:


According to my understanding and i have checked with gyani sher singh ji regarding this also, passage from sri dasam granth regarding various avtars subjected to kaal as their sargun saroop were in fact subjected to kaal as our physical body are all made out of panj tats -body will merge back in maya (see in shalaok nauvan), is to simply raise awareness of sargun upasakhs (of time/present/future) from sargun into nirgun gyan.
Above- raising awareness also indicitates why sri guru gobind singh maharaj gave such strong cautionary tarna to us followers so we don't confine him into only sargun aspect-
jae ham ko paramaesar ouchar hai | thae sabh narak kundd mehi par hai |

In your last post to me where I asked you whether Sargun is permanent you answered yes it is permanent; in the following way:

Sargun saroop of maharaj appear and disappear (unfold and fold) as per hakum of akaal purkh as gurbani does not get destroyed but appears and disappears (alop and loup). So to answer to your question, it is permanent because when is aloup/gupt its in deep non transcendental state (nirgun state) and when its pargat its in transcendental state (sargun) but whats common behind two states is never changing jot ~~ Supreme consciousness Awareness ~~ which is - Ikongkar gyan of naam/shabad itself....!!!!!!!

Do you not see a clear conflict between the two statements you made?

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Thanks to N30 for answering the questions. So in one of your first post you had stated the following:

In your last post to me where I asked you whether Sargun is permanent you answered yes it is permanent; in the following way:

Do you not see a clear conflict between the two statements you made?

I don't see conflict on statements because i was not talking about sargun in reality literally being confined in sidhant itself but rather sargun is being confined in individual consciousness and thats where i was getting at above. Sri guru gobind singh ji is sargun and nirgun both, if seeker or an individual confine sri guru gobind singh ji maharaj in his/her consciousness limited to only sargun saroop, they are not being aware of sri guru gobind singh ji nirgun roop which is eternal shabad and gyan- self- non transcendental nirgun roop which is ultimate reality and ultimate updesh of gurbani .!!!

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I don't see conflict on statements because i was not talking about sargun in reality literally being confined in sidhant itself but rather sargun is being confined in individual consciousness and thats where i was getting at above. Sri guru gobind singh ji is sargun and nirgun both, if seeker or an individual confine sri guru gobind singh ji maharaj in his/her consciousness limited to only sargun saroop, they are not being aware of sri guru gobind singh ji nirgun roop which is eternal shabad and gyan- self- non transcendental nirgun roop which is ultimate reality and ultimate updesh of gurbani .!!!

So what if someone confines Satguru only in Sargun? As you said sargun is permanent.

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So what if someone confines Satguru only in Sargun? As you said sargun is permanent.

There is difference between sargun in sidhant being permanent eventually folding itself in nirgun non transcedental form and individual consciousness making it permanent, when individual consciousness makes it permanent its creates an road block or an desire to be in realm of sargun . Hence, creating hindrance for itself to raise awareness from sargun to nirgun in his/her spiritual development and also not to mention contary to satguru ultimate updesh of eternal shabad and gyan updesh- real self- non transcedental pure awareness consciousness bliss- ikongkar..!!

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There is difference between sargun in sidhant being permanent eventually folding itself in nirgun non transcedental form and individual consciousness making it permanent, when individual consciousness makes it permanent its creates an road block or an desire to be in realm of sargun . Hence, creating hindrance for itself to raise awareness from sargun to nirgun in his/her spiritual development and also not to mention contary to satguru ultimate updesh on raising awareness to eternal shabad and eventually into gyan- real self- non transcedental pure awareness consciousness bliss- ikongkar..!!

Bhagat Dhanna Jatt ji focused on Sargun as permanent and he was united with Akal Purakh. Bhagat ji did not face no hindrance. Infact after devoting himself to Sargun, Maharaj blessed him with seeing Maharaj, where no one else could see him.

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