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Do Only Khalsa Amritdhari Gursikhs Leave Reincarnation?

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khands are not state of mind but they exists for real

Yes, but what exactly is 'real' ??

Do we know exactly what our ''jiv' or soul has done or where it has been ?

If you can get your jiva out and look at it with your own eyes, then I will believe whatever you say is real !

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And before the gurus how about all those lifes/souls? where they just given another chance based on their deeds, how can you accept guru granth sahib ji as guru if guru was not provided in this way pre 1300AD?

Sachkand has only been populated since 1300AD and the billions of souls before that are just reincarnated? Seems a bit illogical?

Thanks for the Pauris!

Sachkhand is not a place like a planet or country. It cannot be populated. If you know anything about sikhi then you should know that Waheguru is everything and everything is Waheguru. We are given this life to break free from reincarnation and merge back into Waheguru. Gurbani tells us this. Please read and understand Gurbani which can explain better than I can. Please read if you have not done so the pauris I have mentioned. It should be very clear and self explanatory.

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Yes, but what exactly is 'real' ??

Do we know exactly what our ''jiv' or soul has done or where it has been ?

If you can get your jiva out and look at it with your own eyes, then I will believe whatever you say is real !

when one does great abhiyaas and they are able to jailbreak :tongue2:(opening dasam duar) themselves than one can travel to these realms :smile2:

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Sachkhand is not a place like a planet or country. It cannot be populated. If you know anything about sikhi then you should know that Waheguru is everything and everything is Waheguru. We are given this life to break free from reincarnation and merge back into Waheguru. Gurbani tells us this. Please read and understand Gurbani which can explain better than I can. Please read if you have not done so the pauris I have mentioned. It should be very clear and self explanatory.

Sorry i think you have misunderstood the question, i didnt ask for qualification on what sachkand is, our role in merging back into Waheguru, nor on the infinitness of Waheguru these things are the very basic tenets of sikhi.

Having read the Vaar that you suggested im guessing that "Binu Gur Darasanu Daykhanaa Bhramataa Dhiray Tdaurhi Naheen Paaay, Binu Guru Poorai Aaay Jaaay" is what you are referring to.

Again for the record i asked pre guru's time how does this fit into our belief in others reaching sachkand?, i think one of the previous posters mentioned guru ji being in human form pre his existence to us as Guru Nanak Dev Ji is this correct?

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Sorry i think you have misunderstood the question, i didnt ask for qualification on what sachkand is, our role in merging back into Waheguru, nor on the infinitness of Waheguru these things are the very basic tenets of sikhi.

Having read the Vaar that you suggested im guessing that "Binu Gur Darasanu Daykhanaa Bhramataa Dhiray Tdaurhi Naheen Paaay, Binu Guru Poorai Aaay Jaaay" is what you are referring to.

Again for the record i asked pre guru's time how does this fit into our belief in others reaching sachkand?, i think one of the previous posters mentioned guru ji being in human form pre his existence to us as Guru Nanak Dev Ji is this correct?

Bhai Gurdas Ji's Pauri 49 Vaar 1 explains how Waheguru Gurmantar was made. This pauri explains that in each of the 4 Yugs Guru Ji was present in an avatar form and gave the name of Waheguru that was appropriate at that time. In this the present time our Guru Nanak Dev Ji's Jyot is in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. It is from Guru Granth Sahib Ji that we will receive the Gurmantar. What happened in previous yugs is irrelevant. That time has passed. Only the Present is relevant. So please stop referring to the past and refer to Guru Granth Sahib Ji's Hukkam.

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if only the present is relevant than why do we listen to sakhia from over 400 years ago please think before you type there is a lot to be learned from the past

but thanks for the information as it is always best to be informed with knowledge than not to seek it out

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if only the present is relevant than why do we listen to sakhia from over 400 years ago please think before you type there is a lot to be learned from the past

but thanks for the information as it is always best to be informed with knowledge than not to seek it out

My point is that the past is the past. Yes you can learn from it, but you only have the present to do anything about it. You only have the present to decide whether you want to accept Guru Ji's hukkam and take khande di pahul. Your future liberation from this life is in your present hands, take it or leave it, it's your choice.

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Any sentient beings true essential nature is that of liberation even without the want, need and desire for. Any being can be liberated regardless of Sargun factor. Did a perfect God create perfect people and an imperfect God create imperfect people?

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Same jot of nanak in all avtars and in everyone equally no ghat no badh (zeeman zaman akaal ustat)- thats ultimately our "gurmat advait" sidhant, it was nanak nirgun parbhram all along - Anek hai Phir ek hai... body and antish karan (for us mere mortals) are subjected to kaal not jot nor hari avtar or guru avtar as they are profound incarnation of nanak nirgun/they disappear appear (14, 16, sarab kala- read japji sahib steek by sant gurbachan singh bhindranwale about six types of avtars) of nanak nirgun/akaal purkh , jot is maha kaal/nanak nirgun akaal purkh supreme consciousness not subjected to kaal that would indicate dualism and would against every foundation set in gurbani !!
Sri Dasam Granth rightly talks about about avtars subjected to kaal as they were in terms of body just like everybody else ( panj tatwas- shalok nauvan) - guru maharaj set the record straight to rise people surti's from sargun into nirgun as people were stuck in sargun upasana and wrap their head around sargun avtars- made that into road block themselves in their spirituality..rest people can check with parcharaikhs of the panth

So was Satguru Nanak Dev ji also subject to kaal?

And what do you mean by same jot?

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So was Satguru Nanak Dev ji also subject to kaal?

And what do you mean by same jot?

You may be thinking kal outside of realm of akaal purkh as seperate entity..hence there is a confustion or misunderstanding.
According to my understanding- in deep layers of gurmat- kaal is maha kaal and maha kaal is akaal purkh himself- maha kaal is non transcedent aspect of nirgun and kaal is transcedent aspect of maha kaal- sargun ..!!
Satguru nanak dev sargun (physical body) saroop were not subjected to kaal as their body was made of shud satogun (out of rajo, tamo sato maya).
However, one jot is nanak nirgun all the along transcedenting different saroops/various avtars including - kaal itself and himself creating worlds play according to need of time in various kala's according to need- leaving at the end absoutely no dualism at all to spiritual seeker.
According to my understanding and i have checked with gyani sher singh ji regarding this also, passage from sri dasam granth regarding various avtars subjected to kaal as their sargun saroop were in fact subjected to kaal as our physical body are all made out of panj tats -body will merge back in maya (see in shalaok nauvan), is to simply raise awareness of sargun upasakhs (of time/present/future) from sargun into nirgun gyan.
Above- raising awareness also indicitates why sri guru gobind singh maharaj gave such strong cautionary tarna to us followers so we don't confine him into only sargun aspect-
jae ham ko paramaesar ouchar hai | thae sabh narak kundd mehi par hai |
Those who call me God, will fall into the pit of hell.
Not to mention repeteadely mention of worship of one non dual all prevading nirgun jot in gurbani in aad guru granth sahib ji and sri dasam granth sahib ji via shabad and shabad gyan.
Edited by N30S1NGH
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According to my understanding- in deep layers of gurmat- kaal is maha kaal and maha kaal is akaal purkh himself- maha kaal is non transcedent aspect of nirgun and kaal is transcedent aspect of maha kaal- sargun ..!!
Above- raising awareness also indicates why sri guru gobind singh maharaj gave such strong cautionary tarna to us followers so we don't confine him into only sargun aspect-
jae ham ko paramaesar ouchar hai | thae sabh narak kundd mehi par hai |
Those who call me God, will fall into the pit of hell.

kaal is not mahakal becoz if we look in simple words mahakaal is one who is greater than kaal itself and he is the only one who is not subjected to kaal.... mahakaal is free of maya but kaal comes in maya

here maharaj says in bachitar natak that whosoever call themselves god will end up in hell

if u say me that mine explanation is wro9ng then u may listen to baba jarnail singh ji's katha of bachitar natak sahib

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kaal is not mahakal becoz if we look in simple words mahakaal is one who is greater than kaal itself and he is the only one who is not subjected to kaal.... mahakaal is free of maya but kaal comes in maya

Thats exactly what i said, kaal is transcedental sargun(with gunas/maya) aspect of maha kaal/nirgun roop, maha kaal is non transcedental aspect/roop of nirgun.

here maharaj says in bachitar natak that whosoever call themselves god will end up in hell

if u say me that mine explanation is wro9ng then u may listen to baba jarnail singh ji's katha of bachitar natak sahib

Sure, there are many interpretations of the above tuk, similiarly baba isher singh ji nanaksar wale give interpertation from bhagti aspect and bhai sahib randhir singh ji gave interpretation from nirgun line of thought of which what i was saying earlier-so we don't confine sri guru gobind singh ji into only sargun aspect.!!

Edited by N30S1NGH
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