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Do Only Khalsa Amritdhari Gursikhs Leave Reincarnation?


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yes why not i think for most part sikhi is rational and for the other parts i have faith/belief

however the irrational logic in this case is too much for a blind leap of faith hence asking more learned sikhs as to what they think/ what gurbani says

everydays a school day after all :)

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Khalsa Ji, The root causes of re-birth are: Kaam/ krodh/lobh/ moh/ ahankar. Once we break the attachment, then w e can be liberated. That's the theory; the practical is to remove such thoughts, and t

I have been reading the comments on this topic which is very relevant for today's society. Many people have this question. Some comments have strayed away from answering the question in the topic head

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It is common misconception amongst Sikhs that Guru Nanak Dev jee did not exist prior to their manifestation in human form in 1469. Guru Nanak Dev jee has been there throughout the 4 jugs. Guru Nanak Dev jee definitely existed before 1469.

Mukti mean liberation and liberation can have different levels i.e. mukti from narak (hell), mukti from chraasi lakh joon.

As per Gurbanee nobody has reached Akaal Purakh without Satguru.

Who is Satguru?

If other Avtaars/Bhagats/Prophets reached Akaal Purakh then who was their Satguru?

Satguru can be only one. Satguru as per Gurmat is clearly Guru Nanak Dev jee. Before bhagats met sri Guru Nanak Dev jee they had reached as far as Karam Khand which is just below Sach Khand. Sach Khand is the highest destination in Gurmat - "Sachkhand Vasai Nirankaar" - it is the fifth Khand (realm) mentioned in sri Jap jee sahib. It is through GurParsaad, kirpa of Guru we can meet Akal Purakh and enter Sach Khand.

Also I have read before that bhagats reincarnated as Gursikhs and took khanda de pahul amrit. However there has been research done relatively recently that proves bhagats met Guru Nanak Dev jee. Therefore they would not have to take jaman (birth) again to receive amrit. They must have received charan pahul amrit directly from Guru Nanak Dev jee. No doubt, before the bhagats could utter Gurbani they must have had to receive amrit first from Satguru.

Bhul chuk maaf.

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Satguru can be only one. Satguru as per Gurmat is clearly Guru Nanak Dev jee. Before bhagats met sri Guru Nanak Dev jee they had reached as far as Karam Khand which is just below Sach Khand. Sach Khand is the highest destination in Gurmat - "Sachkhand Vasai Nirankaar" - it is the fifth Khand (realm) mentioned in sri Jap jee sahib. It is through GurParsaad, kirpa of Guru we can meet Akal Purakh and enter Sach Khand.

just a correction all those did not reach karamkhand but gainkhand.. :)

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I have read that some bhagats reached Karam Khand and even now dedicated bhagats who do crazy abhiyaas of Naam can reach Karam Khand. However it is only by adopting Guru Nanak Dev jee as Satguru and receiving Gurmat Naam one is able to access Sach Khand.

Many Gursikhs interpret the 5 Khands mentioned in sri Jap jee sahib as spiritual states. The 5 Khands are not just spiritual levels but actual realms just like this one. This earth is a karam bhoomi - place in which we perform good/ bad karams and is part of Dharam Khand.

Now science I believe is also coming up with theories of multiple universes. Gurbani has already mentioned the vast creation and countless planets, stars and realms. We cannot even comprehend this small earth let alone Dharam Khand.

Fortunate are those who have had darshan and experience of these realms.

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I have read that some bhagats reached Karam Khand and even now dedicated bhagats who do crazy abhiyaas of Naam can reach Karam Khand. However it is only by adopting Guru Nanak Dev jee as Satguru and receiving Gurmat Naam one is able to access Sach Khand.

veer they reach gyan khand not karam khand

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Are you really applying rationalism and logic to faith!!

Reincarnation is not a real process - it is a literal tool used in many faiths to encourage good behaviour during one's life.

Our understanding of nature and the universe has progressed considerably since the Sri Guru Granth Sahib and other religious scriptures (that talk of recincarnation) were compiled.

So the question of whether it is only Amritdhari Sikhs can acheive mukti is a non question.

What are you saying?

Reincarnation is a key belief in Sikhi, it also seems like a fair process.

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Kaival mukhti is given by satguru nanak dev ji we all agree with that. Satguru nanak dev ji in nirgun/sargun form can take any form -both animate, in-animate-self,shabad form gyan form and give mukhti to all depending on individual devotion, perception love, efforts be it zikr, naam seva- they don't need permission from us which form they should transcendent, give mukhti, they can take any form and they have in the past in all the yugas based on gurbani helped devotees, given them mukhti based on individual perception/bhavna (he does not need to go through outer sikh traditions we cannot confine nirgun satguru nanak into any thing that will go against jaap sahib, sri akaal ustat sidhant), its based on individual devotion towards vahiguroo kirpa in various forms but at the end- sargun and nirgun (knowledge of self- atma-paratma) ekta- it was nanak nirgun par bhram all along ..before hindus try to confine him, muslims try to confine him now sikhs are trying to confine him in semetic, abhramic, ism religious form but sri guru gobind singh ji reinforces nanak nirgun saroop again in jaap sahib, sri akaal ustat, gyan parbodh without any religious boundaries
And also regarding khands in japji sahib- yes that could be perceived as sargun/psychical at begineer stage, but since we belive in kaival mukhti not other four sargun mukhti or protestant version of khands... khands in japji sahib are ultimately state of mind, almost 90% puratan scholars/literature(bhai vir singh, baba teja singh double ma, garab gajini teeka/sant gurbachan singh bhindranwale katha ultimately talks about khands being state of mind) have agreed to this as gurbani connects directly to our development of our human consciouness state/perceptions etc..Making khands or puriya into seperate reality its for sargun upasakhs ( pandit singh dhaka nirmala among others who were sargun upasakh with their understanding, limit khands to only subtle/physical realm of khands - made them into seperate ultimate reality place), sikhi does not beleive in protestant version of khands of wrathful god whipping day lights out of people where there is assembly/disassembly line towards locked sachkhand and other various khands. Both ultimate sargun interpertation of khands and protestant influence version of khands approach of sachkhand falls potentially into Polytheistic notions/disconnected reality from human spiritual development in the human consciousness and also in clash course with jaap sahib, akaal ustat, gyan parbodh sidhant.
I strongly believe before 1469 appearance of sikhi in full partak form, people who made efforts- karam yog/shabad surat/gyan yog with true devotion and love towards vahiguroo/nanak nirgun got kaival mukhti as sikhi is anadi as we cannot box satguru nanak or confine him into only sargun saroop avtar and christian abhramic version of prophet of 1469 (accept physical jesus otherwise will go to hell) as nirgun roop of nanak- vahiguroo can transcendent in to many forms- as sargun, nirgun, shabad, self - gyan according to need- they don't need permission from us. Satguru nanak was nirgun parbhram , he can take any form or of any avtar he wishes both animate, non animate form can give mukhti in its own unique way -naam gyan roop, amrit dristhi, bhramgyan drsithi of self, its not up to us to dictate which form he needs to use to transcendent to give mukhti to all in whichever form or way, so people should stop shoving leela/power of satguru nanak into their little wells, tribals, tunnels, and confine him with their limited buddhi.
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Satguru Nanak Dev ji and Akal Purakh are one. I agree a lot of what N30 just said but let's put the any form to the test of Gurbani. Bhagat Prahlad ji was saved by Narsingh avtar. Gurbani says Akal Purakh came down as this form and killed Bhagat Prahlad ji's father (the attacker). Then Dasam Bani says that Narsingh avtar was subject to Kaal. Read Gurbani and Sargun or Nirgun Saroop of Maharaj are not subject to Kaal. Both are above Kaal and are Akal. So it cannot be said Narsingh avtar was one of Satguru's Sargun or Nirgun form.

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Same jot of nanak in all avtars and in everyone equally no ghat no badh (zeeman zaman akaal ustat)- thats ultimately our "gurmat advait" sidhant, it was nanak nirgun parbhram all along - Anek hai Phir ek hai... body and antish karan (for us mere mortals) are subjected to kaal not jot nor hari avtar or guru avtar as they are profound incarnation of nanak nirgun/they disappear appear (14, 16, sarab kala- read japji sahib steek by sant gurbachan singh bhindranwale about six types of avtars) of nanak nirgun/akaal purkh , jot is maha kaal/nanak nirgun akaal purkh supreme consciousness not subjected to kaal that would indicate dualism and would against every foundation set in gurbani !!


Sri Dasam Granth rightly talks about about avtars subjected to kaal as they were in terms of body just like everybody else ( panj tatwas- shalok nauvan) - guru maharaj set the record straight to rise people surti's from sargun into nirgun as people were stuck in sargun upasana and wrap their head around sargun avtars- made that into road block themselves in their spirituality..rest people can check with parcharaikhs of the panth

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There are 4 pauris where Bhai Gurdas Ji mentions Charnamrit. Pauri 3 Vaar 1, Pauri 23 Vaar 1, Pauri 7 Vaar 11 and Pauri 22 Vaar 40.

The point is that one cannot and absolutely CANNOT achieve mukti without Guru Ji. Gurbani keeps reiterating this and Bhai Gurdas Ji's Vaar keeps mentioning this. One may live their life by: being good, doing seva, not cutting their hair, avoiding getting entangled in the 5 evils BUT one will NOT acieve mukti without Guru Ji. what may happen by doing good deeds is that one may get another chance in the same life or in another live to take Kande di pahul and accept Guru Granth Sahib Ji as their Guru. Pauri 22 Vaar 40 explains this fact.

Thanks for the above.

My comment was made in relation to a statement that said Guruji 'dipped' his feet in the water to initiate the followers or disciples !

According to the above vaars it is clear that charan amrit is not from the act of dipping your toes in water and saying ''you may drink this if you want to be my Sikh follower''.

It is about washing the gurus feet and then not discarding that same water which itself is considered amrit.

There is a huge difference in the significance of the two.

Can anyone else see this difference of which one has humility and respect and which one borders on cult behavior ?? or is it just me ?????? :stupidme:

Does any mahapursh or highly enlightened being go into a gurdwara and say '' here, you can touch and take the dust of my shoes'' ?? OR does a humble being approach themselves and wipe them ? See the difference ?

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And also regarding khands in japji sahib- yes that could be perceived as sargun/psychical at begineer stage, but since we belive in kaival mukhti not other four sargun mukhti or protestant version of khands... khands in japji sahib are ultimately state of mind, almost 90% puratan scholars/literature(bhai vir singh, baba teja singh double ma, garab gajini teeka/sant gurbachan singh bhindranwale katha ultimately talks about khands being state of mind) have agreed to this as gurbani connects directly to our development of our human consciouness state/perceptions etc..Making khands or puriya into seperate reality its for sargun upasakhs ( pandit singh dhaka nirmala among others who were sargun upasakh with their understanding, limit khands to only subtle/physical realm of khands - made them into seperate ultimate reality place), sikhi does not beleive in protestant version of khands of wrathful god whipping day lights out of people where there is assembly/disassembly line towards locked sachkhand and other various khands. Both ultimate sargun interpertation of khands and protestant influence version of khands approach of sachkhand falls potentially into Polytheistic notions/disconnected reality from human spiritual development in the human consciousness and also in clash course with jaap sahib, akaal ustat, gyan parbodh sidhant.

Understanding the above is important !

The khands or realms are difficult to define and many have given different opinions. However, we should understand and appreciate that they are states of our spiritual mind that we must conquer to get to the realm of Truth or sachkhand.

Think of a cross with all four directions of North, South, East and west.

Then think of Dharam,gian,saram and karam khand as representing each direction. Now, just as a compass always points North from any given point then so do all of these directions- think of them all as pointing to SachKhand.

I think that one has to travel in all Four directions to get to that same destination of Sachkhand. However, we shouldn't get confused and think that you can just choose between one of the four as it will still get us there. I don't think it works like that !

I know some scholars have said that they are done in succession or order starting at Dharam khand as if working up a ladder. This is more logical, but Guruji can grant his grace to anyone at ANY TIME, so one shouldn't feel stuck at one khand and unable to make it to the next.

Think of sajjan thug or khauda raksh !

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Understanding the above is important !

The khands or realms are difficult to define and many have given different opinions. However, we should understand and appreciate that they are states of our spiritual mind that we must conquer to get to the realm of Truth or sachkhand.

Think of a cross with all four directions of North, South, East and west.

Then think of Dharam,gian,saram and karam khand as representing each direction. Now, just as a compass always points North from any given point then so do all of these directions- think of them all as pointing to SachKhand.

I think that one has to travel in all Four directions to get to that same destination of Sachkhand. However, we shouldn't get confused and think that you can just choose between one of the four as it will still get us there. I don't think it works like that !

I know some scholars have said that they are done in succession or order starting at Dharam khand as if working up a ladder. This is more logical, but Guruji can grant his grace to anyone at ANY TIME, so one shouldn't feel stuck at one khand and unable to make it to the next.

Think of sajjan thug or khauda raksh !

khands are not state of mind but they exists for real

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