Bbc One Must Watch -Sikh Girls Groomed By Muslims

[hsisingh]

The programme was very distressing - irrespective of what faith you are.

It was also very distressing to see the news story about two Sikh men (one looked like an amritdhari) in the Punjab convicted of the rape of a 5 year old.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/two-men-kidnap-rape-five-year-old-girl-in-punjab-life-term/1/305371.html

..this follows the April 2013 news, about a 90 year old being raped in a village in Hoshiarpur by a Raghbir Singh

http://m.indiatoday.in/story/woman-raped-in-hoshiarpur-police-books-accused-india-today/1/261962.html

...and the May 2013 news of the conviction of Major Singh in Garshankar for the rape of a 14 year old girl

http://www.punjabnewsline.com/punjab/man-awarded-10-yrs-in-jail-in-hoshiarpur-gang-rape-case/75226

..and 4 boys being convicted of the rape of a school girl in Hoshiarpur in April 2010

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/four-classmates-school-peon-booked-for-raping-hoshiarpur-girl/581543/

These are just a handful of cases from my district in the Punjab..

..if you were an outsider looking at the Sikh community - what would you conclude about us? that Sikhs have a high propensity to commit sex crimes?

[DailyMail]

If I was an outsider, I'd think (a) these men are sick individuals who deserve to die in prison and (b) I'd think Punjab is a Sikh-majority state (just about) and therefore it is not surprising that most criminals and rapists will be from a Sikh background. In the same way that the majority of the rapists in the UK are white english, the majority in France will be white french. The point of THIS thread, however, is that a significant disproportionate number of rapists/groomers in a non-Islamic country (United Kingdom) are pakistani muslim (note: majority of rapists/groomers are still white in the UK, but a disproportionate number are pakistani-origin). Had we have been living in Pakistan, this wouldn't even be news unfortunately.

Unfortunately for the UK, political correctness has infested our institutions to the extent they aren't willing to call a spade a spade. Not to mention the large muslim vote bank, which means politicians aren't willing to call a spade a spade either.

[Ranjeet01]

Hsisingh

This particular topic is about grooming, if you feel the need to talk about sexual crimes in Punjab, perhaps you can set it up as a seperate topic and we can discuss the issues.

[Jeevan]

Dear SAS,

Is it possible to get funding from our Gurdwaras?

I know for a fact the Police, CPS, Social Services, Councils etc. etc. have access to funds in which they are allowed to make discretionary payments to help an individual or organization, that money should come over to the SAS.

Did you know Social Services receive £250,000 pa for each child in care, it is about time some of that money came directly to us Sikhs to help our children.

Dear Sikh Sangat,

Sikhs by their very nature are a successful quam, I find it hard that Sikhs with their economic prosperity, social well being & just as importantly networking connections are unable to fulfill this request for funding to the SAS?

I will put the word out to my friends, family, connections to see how they can help. I suspect funding will come in thick & fast but we cannot just assume this and need to put the initial work in.

Please do not accept from the authorities & even our fellow Sikhs that economic times are hard, they are indeed but not for everyone, the world is abundant and there are enough decent organizations & individuals who will donate to make that difference! Not everyone is aware of the issues & sometimes a quiet chat or presentation is enough for a rich benefactor to part with their monies.

Long Live The Khalsa!!!

PS I have donated but I appreciate it is well short of what the SAS require for their momentous task ahead.

[Britjabi]

The programme was very distressing - irrespective of what faith you are.

It was also very distressing to see the news story about two Sikh men (one looked like an amritdhari) in the Punjab convicted of the rape of a 5 year old.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/two-men-kidnap-rape-five-year-old-girl-in-punjab-life-term/1/305371.html

..this follows the April 2013 news, about a 90 year old being raped in a village in Hoshiarpur by a Raghbir Singh

http://m.indiatoday.in/story/woman-raped-in-hoshiarpur-police-books-accused-india-today/1/261962.html

...and the May 2013 news of the conviction of Major Singh in Garshankar for the rape of a 14 year old girl

http://www.punjabnewsline.com/punjab/man-awarded-10-yrs-in-jail-in-hoshiarpur-gang-rape-case/75226

..and 4 boys being convicted of the rape of a school girl in Hoshiarpur in April 2010

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/four-classmates-school-peon-booked-for-raping-hoshiarpur-girl/581543/

These are just a handful of cases from my district in the Punjab..

..if you were an outsider looking at the Sikh community - what would you conclude about us? that Sikhs have a high propensity to commit sex crimes?

Please - we must think rationally...............the above 4 cases are taken out of a community of over 15 million Sikhs in the Panjab - now compare that to the DOZENS of grooming cases in the UK in recent years involving Muslim gangs - all originating from a Pakistani population in the UK of UNDER 1 MILLION !!...........you don't have to be a statistician to work it out for yourself !!

I sometimes feel that this forum is being infiltrated by 'OUTSIDERS'...........

[hsisingh]

Hsisingh

This particular topic is about grooming, if you feel the need to talk about sexual crimes in Punjab, perhaps you can set it up as a seperate topic and we can discuss the issues.

I respectfully disagree with your comment - grooming (as is rape) is a sex crime - i thought the whole purpose of grooming was to manipulate someone to engage in sexual activity??

[Shamshere]

I respectfully disagree with your comment - grooming (as is rape) is a sex crime - i thought the whole purpose of grooming was to manipulate someone to engage in sexual activity??

You don't seem to understand the difference. If the Sikh rapists in Punjab were targetting solely muslim women/girls then it would be comparable.

These muslim gangs specifically target girls outside of their own community.

[Hammertime007]

they wouldnt do it to their own,

[jashb]

.

[AmanSingh1867]

there is also an issue of self esteem and respect which plays a bigger part in the grooming mechanism and its being ignored

I didn't realise this until i heard one of Mohan Singh's from SAS talks - and he emphasised the importance of families being close knit, loving and spending lots of time together and talking to each other...... THIS REALLY opened my eyes and i thought i want to do things differently with my kids and make sure i'm always around them and they know they got a friend, bodyguard, councillor, and dad all in one.

how many of us guys on here can honestly say that we have / or are able to talk to our younger cousins and sisters about the dangers of grooming? (without it turning into a rant)

how many of us can say we take an interest in what our girls aspire to, hope to be in future ?

how many of us truly respect them and their opinion and what is important to them or do we just try and tell them what to do?

we need to all take time out of our daily busy money making schedules and spend some time with our families and making them feel respected, wanted, and loved

so they don't go out looking for it elsewhere - biggest thing groomers are looking for is low-self esteem and broken families

The first thing groomers do is

1) shower with praise and gifts

2) talk about family and comment on how they don't respect the girl or appreciate her like the groomer does

3) get her to lie to family and alienate her from them

4) cement the emotional bond with sweet talk and talk of bollywood love stories

5) clinch the deal - she belongs to the groomer now and abuse can begin

There are many panjabi families that say they are middle class/ well off they have cars houses businesses etc but their families are broken

I just want to emphasize the importance of what veerji has said above, because along with instilling Sikhi knowledge in our kids, it is the single most important factor in preventing grooming of Sikh girls.

I'll give you a personal example. I am from a practicing/keshdari family. From a young age, my siblings and I have been taught about Gurmukhi and our history. Step one complete, no one would ever be able to lie to us/manipulate us about Sikhi, we have answers to any question/argument.

After reaching a certain age, we also got involved in seva initiatives. This surrounded us with wonderful sangat, Singhs and Kaurs who led by example, and didn't just know about Sikh, but were LIVING Sikhi each and every day. It is one thing to be lectured about Sikhi, it is another thing to experience it and live it in real life. Just like you can read 100 books on driving, until you have actually gotten in the car and tried your hand at the wheel, you are never going to be able to do it properly. So, step two complete, we were now applying the teachings of Sikhi into our everyday lives.

But there was one thing missing. My father is not an emotional man, in fact, he's more detached and withdrawn than most people. He cares about us for sure, we all know it, but he has never really been able to have that "you can come to me for anything" connection with his children, it is his biggest weakness.

I am the eldest child in the family. I have a younger brother and a younger sister. Thankfully, at an early age, I was able to figure out that the most troubled children are the ones that come from a broken home OR where the family is not tight-knit, and for this reason I took it upon myself to become that lead male figure in my brother and sister's lives.

With my brother, I know how important it is for guys to want to impress one another and "be cool", this can often times lead to alcohol and drug use, sometimes even worse than that. The single most important thing I did with him was show him that there was nothing cool about doing what everyone else was doing, real men, pioneers, do not follow other people's paths, they create their own. There are 2 types of people in life: leaders and followers, the former become CEOS, Presidents and world-wide stars. They are rooted to the Earth, are powerful, confident, stand up for what they believe in and ground the world up to their vision and all, NOT the other way around. When they die, millions mourn, for they not only lived a great live themselves, they inspired the people around them to do so as well. The latter spend their entire lives trying to impress other people, like a tumbleweed constantly blown in every conceivable direction by the winds of life. They are sheep who are too cowardly to trek their own paths, they would rather listen to others than use their own logic and judgement, they accomplish nothing noteworthy and in the end die forgotten and irrelevant.

Our Gurus were leaders. They did not conform to convention, stood up for what they knew to be right, valued truth higher than anything else, and even today, hundreds of years later, their message lives on through us. I taught my brother to not care about what the guys around him were doing and instead go down his own path. And again, it isn't just enough to say, you gotta do it yourself. We hit the gym together 3-5 times a week, have seva initiatives on the weekends, try to do our best in school, and want to get involved with a martial art and a few other volunteer programs, and of course, are constantly trying to learn more about Sikhi. When you're doing all that, there's no time for drugs or alcohol.

And my sister. It's been mentioned on here before that a lot of Punjabi girls have low self-esteem and that is why it is easy for predators to prey on them. I have found this to be true. Unfortunately, most Punjabi families do favor the boys over the girls. Furthermore, girls need a strong male in their lives, someone they can look up to, someone who can show, by example, the way a real man acts and behaves. They need to be close to this person as well, to know that he loves and cares about them. Obviously my dad wasn't able to do it, not because of gender issues, he treats us all the same, but because he has always remained emotionally detached for most of our lives. So I did it.

My sister describes me as her "best friend", and I am glad. Every brother, especially the older ones, should be close to his sister, not only to protect her, but also to guide her. My sister tells me EVERYTHING, and yes, this includes her crushes/guys she likes. The important thing is not to be a dictator, not to lecture her about how wrong it is or how much of an <banned word filter activated> she is etc... Crushes are normal when you're growing up, no one can control the way they feel, but we can all control the way we act. So I never chastise her for her feelings towards a boy, instead I remind her that we all have to make the bed we sleep in, that there are very real consequences for what we do, every action has a reaction and she needs to figure out what is important to her and stick with it. We both know of people who sleep around, do drugs, poorly in school, I just tell her that it is her choice about which side of the fence she wants to be on, certainly no one else can force her to behave a certain way. Like I said before, being a dictator isn't going to help, give your kids/younger siblings the tools they need to make the right decisions on their own, it will keep them safe for life.

So yeah, other than that, we have very similar personalities so always spend a lot of time chilling/hanging out together, I help her out with school, we really do get along like best friends. I've talked to her about the whole muslim grooming thing, she listened to me because we are close and she values what I have to say, had I been a dictator big brother it likely would have gone in one ear and came out another. And now I feel comfortable knowing that even if she moves away for Uni, she will be able to steer clear of this problem and come back safe and sound. Oh and one last thing, to guys with little sisters, they pay a lot of attention to the way you treat other women. If you're a womanizer/wanna-be-pimp, they will think it is okay for guys to treat them like that. Treat other girls the same way you'd want a guy to treat your sister.