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Kundalini Yoga And Yogi Bhajan


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I re-read the below topic again.

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/70507-bhagat-jaidev-ji-sudarshan-chakra-kirya-meditation/

One of non 3ho member here posted with examples of yogic kriyas were mentioned/used in gurbani by bhagats as spiritual aid as part of their spiritual development process. It's a very interesting read.

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This topic has become very ridiculous as a person is clearly rejecting Gurbani. Gurbani cannot be ripped apart and just presented as a single line. A person will never make this mistake unless they want to distort the meaning as was done with ang 71 by stating there "are" nine forms of worship. Really!!! this is how low you need to go to prove your beliefs. Completely astonishing!!!!

There are countless shabads and pauris that very clearly tell a Sikh there is no value in yoga, which includes kundalini, hatha and any other yoga prescribed by Vedic scriptures, which 3HO have copied or invented. If a person started asking the Guru they could go on for days searching for shabads that tell them there is no value. Gurbani gives the direction to focus your consciousness on the Guru whether you are standing, sitting or lying down.

There is one pauri that I really think sums this discussion.

so gurU so isKu kQIAly so vYdu ij jwxY rogI ] so guroo so sikh kathheealae so vaidh j jaanai rogee || He alone is said to be a Guru, he alone is said to be a Sikh, and he alone is said to be a physician, who knows the patient's illness. iqsu kwrix kMmu n DMDw nwhI DMDY igrhI jogI ]5] this kaaran ka(n)m n dhha(n)dhhaa naahee dhha(n)dhhai girehee jogee ||5|| He is not affected by actions, responsibilities and entanglements; in the entanglements of his household, he maintains the detachment of Yoga. ||5||

ang 503

If you claim to be a teacher or if you claim to be a Sikh or if you claim to be a physician, then this is where you should stand. If you don't, I feel sorry for you. How simple and at the same time how complex the above pauri is, yet you are not able to grasp the teaching.

Making up stories of how Sri Chand received a blessing to master all forms of yoga from the same Guru who wrote against yoga practices is very insulting to Sikhs and Sikhi. But it won't be the first time such nonsense was written about the Sikh Gurus and Gurbani.

Ignorance has been the one reason why so many have different views of Sikhi. Gurbani doesn't need to grow. It is the reader who needs to learn how to understand the shabads and hopefully learn how to interpret Gurbani in the process.

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While i do confess that what i know about yoga can be written on the back of a postage stamp, i have always thought three things about it.

1/ It is just a form of exercise and should not be given any higher status than this.

2/ The only spiritual food a Sikh needs is Naam, which can be found through SGGS JI only.

3/ True inner peace can not be achieved through yoga for e.g. the mind can not be controlled by yoga.

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This topic has become very ridiculous as a person is clearly rejecting Gurbani. Gurbani cannot be ripped apart and just presented as a single line. A person will never make this mistake unless they want to distort the meaning as was done with ang 71 by stating there "are" nine forms of worship. Really!!! this is how low you need to go to prove your beliefs. Completely astonishing!!!!

Nine forms of worship both exist in snatan world and traditional sikhi. We are not concerned what happenes with nine forms of worship in snatan world, as they have various different different ishat guru. Our ishat guru satguru is sri guru granth sahib ji and we worship sargun saroop of sri guru granth sahib with nine different types of flowers along with upasana of shabad and upsana of self as one jot.
If you have issue with nine forms of worship towards sargun saroop of sri guru granth sahib ji, then may be you want to explore different dharam as you obviously are more aligned with protestant missionary reformist view who treat sri guru granth sahib maharaj as holy bible, depriving sri guru granth sahib to be living guru status and visit to gurdwaras only on sundays only, you might as well sing hallieujah in choir gurdwara church sitting form to please your wrathful god (instead of sargun and nirgun) sitting in sky somewhere waiting to spank the hell out of its followers.

There are countless shabads and pauris that very clearly tell a Sikh there is no value in yoga, which includes kundalini, hatha and any other yoga prescribed by Vedic scriptures, which 3HO have copied or invented. If a person started asking the Guru they could go on for days searching for shabads that tell them there is no value. Gurbani gives the direction to focus your consciousness on the Guru whether you are standing, sitting or lying down.
There is one pauri that I really think sums this discussion.
so gurU so isKu kQIAly so vYdu ij jwxY rogI ] so guroo so sikh kathheealae so vaidh j jaanai rogee || He alone is said to be a Guru, he alone is said to be a Sikh, and he alone is said to be a physician, who knows the patient's illness. iqsu kwrix kMmu n DMDw nwhI DMDY igrhI jogI ]5] this kaaran ka(n)m n dhha(n)dhhaa naahee dhha(n)dhhai girehee jogee ||5|| He is not affected by actions, responsibilities and entanglements; in the entanglements of his household, he maintains the detachment of Yoga. ||5||
ang 503
If you claim to be a teacher or if you claim to be a Sikh or if you claim to be a physician, then this is where you should stand. If you don't, I feel sorry for you. How simple and at the same time how complex the above pauri is, yet you are not able to grasp the teaching.
I urge you to read the above link someone posted their research on this topic, it will clear up lot of misunderstanding.
Regarding the guru maharaj pavitar vaak- listen to in depth katha by sant gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale it will clear up lot of misinformation as english translations does not justice its clearly talking about characteristics of guru and sikh who has reached last stage-gyan, also talking about profession of jogi its talking about after certain stage whether you jogi or gristhi is same..its talking about jogi not yoga. This is totally un related what you shared.
Main definition of yoga( union) acknowledge and mentioned by traditional saints by sant gurbachan singh bhindranwale is
Yoga chit virthi niroadha (Yog vaishat)
Mind vibrations/thoughts stoppage
And there are many ways used as aids forms to stop mind vibrations, so naturally if mind gets stopped by shabad incorporated with any methods or aids/kriyas (swas gras-kundalini/trikurti)/dyan- its also inadvertently an yoga may be not in a structural form but according to main real definition of yoga.

Making up stories of how Sri Chand received a blessing to master all forms of yoga from the same Guru who wrote against yoga practices is very insulting to Sikhs and Sikhi. But it won't be the first time such nonsense was written about the Sikh Gurus and Gurbani.

According to reformist views you may find them false as your version of sikhi started only 100 years ago not traditional sikhi/historical event. Reformist are already on self destruction path..they have attacked sri guru granth sahib and sri dasam guru granth sahib because they cannot let go their hyper parnioa/insecurity and pre conceived notions in past and they are doing same now in form of missionaries..

Ignorance has been the one reason why so many have different views of Sikhi. Gurbani doesn't need to grow. It is the reader who needs to learn how to understand the shabads and hopefully learn how to interpret Gurbani in the process.

There is no ignorance but level of understanding in stages. Reformist like to perceive gurbani as black and white christian commandments, construct concept of gurbani separate from human consciousness, traditional sikhi believes gurbani speaks to human consciousness at different level and different states and see sargun/shabad and nirgun form in total unionized (Ikongkar) way and contextualize updesh from gurbani from bhagti, shabad surat, gyan-advait aspect so there one can easily reconcile various updesh from gurbani which applies to different individual and different different different stage.
I will end with small example. Gur mantar is same- Vahiguroo. Perceptions are different based on individual stages so traditional sikhi provides generic structrual frame work (structure does not apply as hard and fast rule but but applies case to case basis) to an seeker.
First seeker is given updesh to worship sri guru granth sahib ji with nine forms above mentioned to invoke devotion and prem towards guru sahib, prem and bairaag then use that prem and bairaag go on to
Second stage of seeker..seeker is given updesh to go inwards explore shabad inside. So seeker start shabad surat yog abhyaas and where seeker uses these kriyas/techniques ( swas gras/swas swas/kundalini/dhyan on trikurti etc etc) and using them as aids incorporated with shabad to transcedent further go through many reference points/stages within body.mind, i.e- kundalini opens in navel naturally after swas swas gras simran incorporated with kriya/technique one by kirpa of maharaj gets gurmukh rom rom hari dhaviae and goes through anhad shabad stage, dasam dwar etc falls into sun samadhi eventually (given the fact one does not get caught up in reference points/stages in the body or expereince at dasam dwar or some realm as their final destination with duality invoking a desire for four types of sargun mukhti)
Final stage and alternative stage of 2nd stage, one can physically go through third stage- with full bairaag mithiya dristhi of this world, desireless state of mind and by rising above from perception of ego, individualistic mind-seeker do full abhyaas on dhyaan(without any other thoughts) of gyan of vahiguroo mantra with perception of oneness/non duality after intense abhyaas and with kirpa of vahiguroo ji, seeker eventually falls into smadhi into and further into nirvakalap samadhi leading realization of self.
Again these structure is not hard or fast rule (1, 2, 3 in order) but applies to one is at different state of mind. Traditional sikhi provides this structure for understanding purposes nothing else.
Rest i will let readers decide for themselves, we should concentrate on our jevean than demonizing other groups favoring one over another. My posts were simply reaction to misinformation spread and to set the record straight. Death/kaal is waiting for all of us all these arguments and criticism, all these self righteouness mixed with ego pride gets destroyed by kaal.
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you just have to take a look at how much those involve in kundalini e.g Spirit Voyage, are charging for CDs of gurbani - $30 - for Japji Sahib, its shameful, and please don't say Punjabi's make money out of Sikhi so why shouldn't the kundalini people. Does not justify charging $30 for what Guru Nanak ji gave to us all. Take enough to cover costs and a decent living, but this is just using gurbani for profit.

The west has a tendency to take the bits they like, eg yoga from Hindus, mindfulness from Budhists, and now gurbani from Sikhi, and dressing it up to make it palatable for themselves, we need to protect gurbani so it's link from the Gurus and Vaheguru is not lost and not reduced to the level of mantras for people to use to influence their mental states or attract wealth. Just take a look at the 3HO website and their meditations barely acknowledge Sikhi.

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you just have to take a look at how much those involve in kundalini e.g Spirit Voyage, are charging for CDs of gurbani - $30 - for Japji Sahib, its shameful, and please don't say Punjabi's make money out of Sikhi so why shouldn't the kundalini people. Does not justify charging $30 for what Guru Nanak ji gave to us all. Take enough to cover costs and a decent living, but this is just using gurbani for profit.

I have made plenty of purchase from spirit voyage. I have purchased online mp3 file of tracks and full cd..i find it cheaper...if you want to discuss phsyical cd then i can see high marks up but that also could be shipment and logistical cost and yes there is possibility they have high marks up for high profit. I cannot comment on it either way as i don't know truest intentions of those artist but its safe to assume since this is kalyug, all are affected including punjabi sikhs and white sikhs by greed aspect equally.
However, credit where its due- there are plenty of kirtan including japji sahib sung by 3ho and provided by spirit voyage freely on youtube and there are plenty of free kirtan on sikhnet gurbani media center.

The west has a tendency to take the bits they like, eg yoga from Hindus, mindfulness from Budhists, and now gurbani from Sikhi, and dressing it up to make it palatable for themselves, we need to protect gurbani so it's link from the Gurus and Vaheguru is not lost and not reduced to the level of mantras for people to use to influence their mental states or attract wealth.

Fair point, yes sacred traditions, including sanctity of gurbani have to kept in highest regard. However, more awareness of gurbani more better for sikhi parchar naturally, best parchar is via gurbani kirtan, as gurbani does the parchar itself- drawing seeker from within to itself. No sikh person can do parchar in perfection than gurbani itself. So gurbani should not exclusive to punjabi sikhs, audio gurbani should be available to all regardless thats how awareness of sikhi will be spread. I have read many miraculous stories how someone who didn't understand one bit of gurbani just became sikhs by listening to track of gurbani and its beautiful how gurbani draws people to itself.

Just take a look at the 3HO website and their meditations barely acknowledge Sikhi.

Interesting observation, but i think most people are fed up from dogmatic perception of religion so its good strategy in a sense that they are drawing people into generic spiritual platform (3ho) first to get people in then slowly people at their own pace naturally becoming sikhs once they have tasted "peace" after gurbani kirtan, meditation -yoga incorporated with shabad. I just met many white sikhs in ottawa who were not taught reformist fear mongering parchar of sikhi rather they expereince of sikhi once they have expereinced sikhi via meditation, simran, spiritual discourses, they become amritdharis sikhs on their own accord, on their will. Both punjabi sikh community and 3ho sikh community can learn lot from each other and share resources
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So gurbani should not exclusive to punjabi sikhs, audio gurbani should be available to all regardless thats how awareness of sikhi will be spread.
Interesting observation, but i think most people are fed up from dogmatic perception of religion so its good strategy in a sense that they are drawing people into generic spiritual platform (3ho) first to get people in then slowly people at their own pace naturally becoming sikhs once they have tasted "peace" after gurbani kirtan, meditation -yoga incorporated with shabad. I just met many white sikhs in ottawa who were not taught reformist fear mongering parchar of sikhi rather its the expereince of sikhi- they became amritdharis sikhs on their own accord, on their will. Both punjabi sikh community and 3ho sikh community can learn lot from each other and share resources

Yes I agree it should be available to all, but not at the cost of distorting the message of our Gurus, gurbani should lead us to Vaheguru not for us to use gurbani to meet out own ends. Gurbani should come first, and not be distorted just so it attracts more people.

You are very knowledgeable about Sikhi, but with respect it isn't dogmatic to want people who use gurbani to be aware of its link to the Gurus and Vaheguru as that is the message of gurbani otherwise gurbani could potentially be used in ignorance, as with homes in the west in which budhas are kept as a fashion object without much knowledge of who he was or his message and tattoos of Chinese symbols. Yes some people will be affected by the beauty of gurbani but distorting gurbani through a generic platform is not the way to go as most people will not explore further and gurbani will be no more that relaxing background music to them. Unfortunately their generic platform is more about not scaring the majority of goreh away with talk of 10 Indian gurus and overt talk about Wageguru/God.

Some Sikhs themselves have become involved, there's a class at one of the local gurudwara - unfortunately Punjabis sometimes suffer from assuming if westerners are interested it must be worth pursuing, this is where the kundalini ways could influence sikhi just as the British influenced Sikhi, for example by shortening Anand Sahib. We have a duty to our Gurus to protect gurbani and not let it be sold just so we get a few converts, Sikhi is not about converting people through the back door - Kundalinin yoga should be honest about where gurbani is from as the Gurus suffered so we could benefit from their message.

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Guest sikhism

I urge you to read the above link someone posted their research on this topic, it will clear up lot of misunderstanding.

Regarding the guru maharaj pavitar vaak- listen to in depth katha by sant gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale it will clear up lot of misinformation as english translations does not justice its clearly talking about characteristics of guru and sikh who has reached last stage-gyan, also talking about profession of jogi its talking about after certain stage whether you jogi or gristhi is same..its talking about jogi not yoga. This is totally un related what you shared.

Telling from your response I know you wrote in a haste to insult. Normally I would not entertain, but I am going to help you out with this one last post. You are correct it says jogi in Gurmukhi, but you cannot show me where in Gurbani in Gurmukhi yoga is spelt with a "y`"? It is spelt with a "J". However let's leave your grammar mistakes aside and lets look at the shabad. Also from your response I can tell you did not look to read the whole shabad. At the very beginning the Guru says the five thieves are in the body, but the person always goes out to indulge in them and the person gets robbed. Yoga is the practice to control the five thieves (control mind/open kundalini and so on) and "jogis" also want to control the five thieves, but both groups are unable to through their methods. Yogis try doing it through mundras, postures, breath control, and kriyas, but as Gurbani says they are unsuccessful. After the 5th pauri, which I posted, the sixth pauri goes into detail on how to deal with the five thieves. So to this point in this shabad the Guru is saying jogi and yogis have tried their attempts, but they have failed, However here I will show you the way. The Guru says meditate on God and by Guru grace you will be successful. The Guru has explained this shabad completely. Yogi stop your false methods and with your MIND meditate on God. The key word is Mind.

Lastly the nine forms of worship were being distorted by adding kundalini, kriyas, and other 3HO yoga practices to them, when this is not the case in the Shabad.

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