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Kundalini Yoga And Yogi Bhajan

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but it is true, then they should read the shabads from guru sahib if people are going to dance with there hair uncovered, and they also tell the people to get and start dancing, and also what is there main puprose it is to promote yoga instead of sikhi, are they going around and promoting sikhism or how they trying to promoting tantric yoga,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSr8vihJefg

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That video answers a few questions and is not something that they should be proud of.

Even if Sri Guru Granth Sahib prakash is not there at that moment, then it should be and we should still be respecting the manji or the throne/seat of Guruji.

Just because Guruji is not on the throne doesn't mean one can do whatever they wish on those grounds can it ?

I hope they have got the message and learnt from these mistakes because I would be real shocked to see something recent with similar accounts of bedbi.

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It's unfortunate that you had such an experience. Where exactly was this retreat ???

Do you think they all dance to shabads ?

Was any dancing happening within the vicinity or in the presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji prakash ?

Have you ever seen anything or heard about anything disgraceful happening between us Punjabis IN THE presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji ??

Sorry, to put the questions like this but we are ALL guilty of jumping and accusing other sects or jathabandis and highlighting their wrongs whereas we have to remember that there are many wrongs within the Punjabi communities compared to the gora Sikhs as well.

I can only go what I experienced while I was on the retreat which lasted a week, gurbani, for example, sunnia from japji Sahib, was used to accompany yoga sets, there was no explanation of its relation to Sikhi, when I discussed it with the instructors they acknowldeged what it was. There was no education to the people at the class about how to respect gurbani (covering head). dancing did not occur in precence of Guruji, but shabad come from Guruji and I would think the words deserve the same respect as if Guruji was present. Gurbani was used in the context of conquering negative psychological states like a mantra and no mention made of Viaguru. I;m afraid that was enough for me and its not a case of judging any particular groups, but distortion of gurbani

Yes plenty goes on amongst Punjabis but we are taught the significance of gurbani and how to respect it - whereas Kundalini Yoga is using gurbani to make it palatable for the majority of people who attend their classes and will not be inclined to explore the origins of it. Just because they are gora (and some Punjabis may be disrespecting Sikhi) does not mean they should be excused from respecting gurbani. I would recommend you try one of the classes so you can see what actually goes on.

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Yoga is beautiful term. It itself means union with akaal purkh. It has many forms but since its been both being misused by yogis and also totally been rejected/demonized unfairly. It causes allergic reaction to mainstream sikhs.
Yoga has many forms- bhakti yoga, shabad surat yoga-kundalini yoga part of raj yoga, karam yoga - seva, gyan yoga.

1. Is there any real parampara, is there any chance to know not from 3ho books about Sant Hazara Singh or any other teacher that Yogi Bhajan claim to have

Yes they are indirectly linked with udasi and nirmale tradition. Sant hazara singh was nirmala/udasi atleast thats what i was told.

2. Karam Kriya (numerology), SatNam Rasayan (healing) and white tantra are invented by Yogi Bhajan?

White tantra was invented by 3ho along by with other commercial type yoga groups but not karam kriya and other healing methods (sharda poran granth talks about vidya with gurbani for healing) and as there are twelve forms of yoga/school of thoughts, all these kriyas are part of twelve forms of yoga-
Bhai gurdas ji talks about twelve forms of yoga/school of thoughts how they were gathered together.
Gurmat gathered all 12 school of thoughts ( reformed them where its needed) in indic traditions, gathers them together all in one platform- highway - high path of gurmukhs.
ਬਾਰਹ ਪੰਥ ਇਕਤ੍ਰ ਕਰਿ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਗਾਡੀ ਰਾਹੁ ਚਲਾਇਆ।
Baarah Pand Ikatr Kari Guramoukhi Gaadee Raahu Chalaaiaa.
बारह पंथ इकत्र करि गुरमुखि गाडी राहु चलाइआ ।
Gathering the twelve sects together, he prepared a high path of gurmukhs.

3. Is it possible to get such name Siri Singh Sahib is sikh tradition?

Sure why not, jathedar/bhai sahib/sant/farladhari singh sahib etc are all respectful terms in sikh tradition.

4. Are sikhs ok with sikhism as taught by Yogi Bhajan? (mantras, yoga, 3ho gurudwara, white color clothes..)

Sikhs have many orders, groups and traditionally they are mostly united and unity within diversity is celebrated. What define group is its people? Like most groups- there are good apples and there are bad apples.
Group and orders is not bad, individual cultish perception is bad-

5. From the book of dr. Trilochan Singh Sikhism and Tantric Yoga a found that sikh gurus are against all yogic practices, is there a chance to find such strokes it in scriptures?

I have read the book Trilochan singh. What he said was typical nothing new as it was usual was influenced by protestant reformist revionist sikhi thought. It's not black and white as he likes to claim as historically and in gurbani there are many kriyas/techinques- kundalini incorporated with shabad including shabad surat kriya/vidhi which was used along with bhagti/devotion at certain stage to transcendent from body and mind. In gurmat, What it is criticized is if someone wraps their head around these kriyas use these as kriya as mechnical/robotic way tries to transcendent without *Bhagti/devotion/gyan* not these yoga kriyas itself.

6. Is it true that son of GuruNanak Dev, Baba Shri Chand, was a yogin which rejected fathers path, but one day gave his blessings to GuruRam Das.

According to traditional puratan sikhi, sri guru nanak dev ji nirankar blessed his son with mastery of all forms of ancient yoga but those forms of yoga got pefected when they were colored with gurmat when baba sri chand maharaj met sri guru ram das who blessed sri chand with raj yoga and blended raj yoga in color of Gurmat - humility/gursikhi house holder/healing, so that its not those kriyas( which were turned robotic) but rather kriyas blended with bhakti/devotion, gyan and also its not those yogis who go in mountain but come down from mountains blended themselves and their shakti with bhagti and heal other people. Guru maharaj have blended the path of yogis to raj yogis (gursikh raja yogi/sant sipahi) who are supposed to house holder, do seva of healing- using shakti/chi energy inside to heal people and benefit the human kind.
Edited by N30S1NGH
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I can only go what I experienced while I was on the retreat which lasted a week, gurbani, for example, sunnia from japji Sahib, was used to accompany yoga sets, there was no explanation of its relation to Sikhi, when I discussed it with the instructors they acknowldeged what it was. There was no education to the people at the class about how to respect gurbani (covering head). dancing did not occur in precence of Guruji, but shabad come from Guruji and I would think the words deserve the same respect as if Guruji was present. Gurbani was used in the context of conquering negative psychological states like a mantra and no mention made of Viaguru. I;m afraid that was enough for me and its not a case of judging any particular groups, but distortion of gurbani

Yes plenty goes on amongst Punjabis but we are taught the significance of gurbani and how to respect it - whereas Kundalini Yoga is using gurbani to make it palatable for the majority of people who attend their classes and will not be inclined to explore the origins of it. Just because they are gora (and some Punjabis may be disrespecting Sikhi) does not mean they should be excused from respecting gurbani. I would recommend you try one of the classes so you can see what actually goes on.

Actually, I do practice Kundalini yoga and have been attending since the Spring ! :biggrin2:

In my experience so far it has been a very good yoga and well being experience. I have not found anything of disrespect or beadbi as such and everyone including the Goras cover their heads when uttering any gurbani.

I have been quite surprised because I originally joined under the impression that I shall leave feeling dishonored and upset at their conduct.

Maybe my experience has been a one off isolated case ??

We shall see...................

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I attended a kundalina yoga retreat once and they seemed to be more concerned about making money, this put me off as they have no right to make money from the Guru and also dancing while listening to shabad, on the Sikhnet site the Yogi Bhajan seems to have an almost guru like status - I'm sure a lot of the people following him are genuine but there seems something dubious about it . He doesn't seem very humble

Commercialization seems to be problem anywhere you go...similarly in punjabi community we have similar issues of people making huge profit margins and are greedy when they sell sikhi related books cds, saroops etc.

I don't mind paying for classes as long as its reasonable as people/parcharikhs have family to feed back home another reason they have payment for classes just so it ensures they have serious people.

Regarding dancing to gurbani infront of sargun saroop of guru maharaj, sehaj behavior is encouraged but else where its debatable topic that depends on avastha of individual going through inner trance and emotions sprouting out it should not be robotic ...we always had mastane fakirs in the panth from various old traditional orders such as udasi, sevapanthis before protestant influenced sikhi was introduced and they were demonized by aurenzeb type sikhi... regarding yogi bhajan having guru like status- don't all the saints have guru like status infront of overzealous chelas? look around mate. I made a post regarding that not too long ago-

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/69848-individual-cultish-perception-and-the-khalsa-panth/

Edited by N30S1NGH
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Yoga has nothing to do with Sikhi. If it did then a person who is physically handicapped cannot realize Vaheguru.

Not entirely true, yoga has many forms yoga is not rejected rather idolized perception behind it. Gyan yoga would fit perfectably with physically handicapped person

Neither does yoga help to improve a person's spirituality in Sikhi.

You do realize inadvertently you are rejecting gurbani where it talks about shabad surat yog techniques right? Whats sas gras simran? whats swas swas simran? whats concentration on trikurti?

When the Gurus speak about yoga in a positive light in Gurbani they are referring to when a Sikh comes to the Guru to learn how to give the mind to the Guru. So they have redefined what Yoga means.

Partially correct but yoga is not confined to bhagti yoga only. Yoga frame work was not re-defined but rather idolized perception of various types of yoga by people was given updesh.

The old meaning that yoga means union (not in all cases) is somewhat accepted, but the key part the Vedic scriptures miss out on is By Guru Grace. Vedic scriptures say you need A Guru, but Gurbani rejects this and says you need The True Guru. It is rejected, but the true meaning is added.

Now we are just talking sematics. Read vedas guru of many forms. At the end of vedas- vedant- guru guides in form of divine inner wisdom as self drawing seeker to itself.

Then there is another meaning which the Vedic scriptures describe where they practice postures, mundras, mantras, and breathing exercises, which are one of the path to achieve union with God.
Dependings on individual not the path, path is there along with various forms of path to transcendent body and mind. For eg - if person screws along the path of shabad surat marg ie- getting caught up expereince in trikurti or dasam dwar is that issue of path or mistake of seeker going astray?

Again this meaning and practices of yoga are rejected by Gurbani . We all need to remember that the Vedic scriptures describe that yoga (postures, mundras, etc) is one of the ways to gain union with God, but they also say there are 3 other ways. Another is through attaining Vedic knowledge, which they also describe as yoga (union of atma with God). The people of the Vedic scriptures do not practice these postures to stretch their bodies before starting a fitness class. They followed these practices of Kundalini Yoga, Hatha Yoga, Tantra yoga, kirya yoga, etc to gain union with God. However Gurbani rejects these practices as ways to gain union or as spiritual tools.
By saying Krishna we do not become hindus, but stretching our bodies before a fitness class we are not practicing yoga. It is called stretching. However the actions of 3HO group fits in the definition of Vedic scriptures and Gurbani rejects such practices. They make specific parts of Shabads as mantras, hold a certain posture, do certain mundras, and do certain breathing exercises. The Gurus tell us that focusing and devoting the MIND toward Gurbani is the only yoga a Sikh needs to do. A person who is handicapped, who cannot move his hands, who has a hard time breathing can all gain union and not for a second have to complete false practices which 3HO are teaching and practicing.
Jap ji sahib says in the school of the shabad is where us Sikhs train the mind and gain union.
No one is claiming some of kriyas and kundalini yoga are door to salvation they are spiritual aids not the destination itself similiarly in shabad surat marg, swas gras simran used to awaken nabhi there are reference points in the body not the destination itself in spiritual journey. 3HO from what i have seen incorporate gurbani mantras in kriyas making it totally acceptable. They are doing swas gras mentioned in gurbani, its known as kundalini yoga because it it awakens kundalini inside its also known as swas gras as swas goes to nabhi which invokes kundalini in over time. Most sant mahapursh from samparda have used one form of yoga posture/kriya or another in one stage of their life.
Also read and listen to yogi bhajan literature its not all kundalini yoga, he incorporates advait, bhagti , gyan, other shabad surat aspects of gurmat in 3ho. Yes in over time, especially after yogi bhajan- 3ho is not what it used to be, but same goes for other groups/samparda in the panth- look around- find me perfect group? There is none.
Also read http://www.simran.info/. You be surprised how much yoga swas gras/swas swas kriya they have used and whats dhyan on trikurti?, they may dress it up differently afraid of back lash, It's all same, same goes for akj.
I was given by akj singhani this technique long time ago-

Naam Simran can be done this way.

Sit down, and close ur eyes and focus on ur trikuti (third eye) the Brow Chakara, and slowly breath in while saying Wahe and exhale saying Guru.
This is called swas swas simran. I was taught to do Naam Simran dis way when i took amrit from an Akhand Kirtani Jatha, the Panj Payray put their hand on ur head and install Naam Simran into u, thus teach u how to do it.

Or u can do naam simran shutting ur eyes, focusing on ur trikuti and singing Waheguru. However u feel like it, cuz the main thing is that u do Naam Simran. You dont really need to have a Gurus pic in ur head cuz u shold jst put ure concentration on hearing Waheguru as u utter it and focus on ur third eye, that way wen u finish, doin Naam simran u will feel dat ur mind becomes nuetral of thoughts and u feel completely relaxed.

See things in stages, it be lot easier- physical bhagti comes first (nine forms of bhagti) in gursikhi as part of sadhana, then after surti goes subtle updesh is given to go inside/internally via shabad surat intertwined with swas gras simran (kundalini yoga) which invokes nabhi or shabad surat directly to trikurti which invokes naturally 3rd eye, dasam dwaur and then finally by guru maharaj apar kirpa- advait stage.
Edited by N30S1NGH

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Guest Kaur

Money making machine, nothing else. Kundalini Yoga has nothing to do with Sikhi. That's likening a Pineapple to an apple

I wonder where the self proclaimed Sahibs were during the Rajoana protests...hmm..

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Guest sikhism
Not entirely true, yoga has many forms yoga is not rejected rather idolized perception behind it. Gyan yoga would fit perfectably with physically handicapped person

All you have done is put yoga behind every word hoping that readers do not catch on to your fabrications. There is only one gyan that Gurbani advises us to look for; that is Guru Gyan. This Guru Gyan is independent of any kriyas or yoga. Also you dilute the word kriya and kundalini to give it a positive spin, which will confuse the reader. No Kriya or Kundalini is approved by Gurbani in the Vedic scriptures and 3HO way. Techniques which are approved through Gurbani do not follow any of what the Vedic scriptures prescribe or what 3HO practice. Gurbani very clearly states the practice of yoga does not satisfy anyone. No where does Gurbani say that any kriya, yoga, kunadalini are to be used to improve, help, and aid in a Sikhs Sikhi.

isD swiDk kyqy muin dyvw ] sidhh saadhhik kaethae mun dhaevaa || The many Siddhas and seekers, silent sages and demi-gods hiT ingRih n iqRpqwvih Byvw ] hat(h) nigrehi n thripathaavehi bhaevaa || cannot satisfy themselves by practicing restraint through Hatha Yoga. sbdu vIcwir ghih gur syvw ] sabadh veechaar gehehi gur saevaa || One who contemplates the Word of the Shabad, and serves the Guru min qin inrml AiBmwn AByvw ]6] man than niramal abhimaan abhaevaa ||6|| - his mind and body become immaculate, and his egotistical pride is obliterated. ||6||

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What nonsense! Swaas swaas simran as taught by Panj Piare has not nothing to do with Kundalni Yoga! Or yoga in general.

What that singhni has told you is not right and countless other who have had naam drirh will agree. Please read bhai sahibs books for more info regarding simran jugti. Please top using this example.

Some have even called swaas swaas jugti of naam as hath yoga which is also nonsense. Actually if swaas swaas simran is practised with correct technique then it is opposite to that of hath yoga.

Swaas swaas simran is just a technique to japp naam. Further to this, dhyaan, prem and vairaag are required in addition to listening to the dhuni (sound) of of Naam with our surat. Nowhere in Gurbani does it state to sit to adopt techniques of Yog mat. Instead Gurbani whows a simple path to Parmatma by doing sifat salah of Parmeshar through Naam and paath/kirtan of Gurbani.

All this confusion has arised because the technique of swaas swaas simran is not being taught by panj piare in amrit sanchars.

If one wants to learn about naam abhiyaas and dasam duar then please read the relevant books by bhai randhir singh jee.

The main jugti of Naam is "prem". No need for yogmat techniques. A Gursikh who does naam abhiyaas, keeps rehit e.t.c will reach dasam duar, so what is the need for kundalani yoga, dancing, breathing techniques, sitting techniques?

The "spitritual aids" for Gursikhs are Rehit, Kirtan, Santhiyaa and Sangat.

Also the use of terms "protestant" and "abrahamic" is not right. Is bhai randhir singh also a "protestant" because they rejected yogmat and believed in the supremacy of Gurmat? Are then all those who reject yogmat and have shardha only in Gurbani "protestant" or "right-wing extremists". All this name calling is empty it has no basis.

Bhul chuk maaf jee.

Edited by osingh

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All you have done is put yoga behind every word hoping that readers do not catch on to your fabrications. There is only one gyan that Gurbani advises us to look for; that is Guru Gyan. This Guru Gyan is independent of any kriyas or yoga.

These are not fabrications, they very much exist in snatan world and they very much exist in gurmat as well but not separately but all blended beautifully.
Gurmat does not reject the actual different frame works of yogas but blends them beautifully. It does redefines where its needed for eg - it redefines hatha yoga parnyam with color of gurmat-shabad/gyan as in kalyug one does not have to do hard austerities and also gurmat does not agree with how these different forms of yogas were turned into different paths and some sects even each other to claim supermacy- as such - Gurmat blends all forms of yoga in khalsa beautifully and splendidly.
Here are some examples:
Bhagti yoga towards sargun saroop of sri guru granth sahib ji:
1. Sravan - hearing the divine* praises.
2. Kirtan - singing the praised of the divine.
3. Simran - remembrance of the divines name.
4. Padsevena - service and offerings at the divines feet.
5. Archana - worship the divine.
6. Bandana - prostration before the divine.
7. Dasyam - developing feeling or emotion of being the divine's servant.
8. Sakhyam - cultivating the emotional bond of friendship.
9. Atma Nivedana - surrender of the self to the divine.
SGGS Ang- 71
Bhagat Navaie Parkara.
There are nine forms of devotional worship
Similiarly there is gyan jog starting with vairaag, bibek so on so forth.
And to read more about various forms of yoga read 30-41 pdf pages of gurmukh parkash by sant gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale. Sant gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale re-defined hatha and parnayam form of yoga to shabad and gyan aspect where its needed.
Also read various forms of yoga/asans/ sub forms- soraj praksh granth atam gyan parsang between bhai dya singh ji and sangat katha by gyani thakur singh ji

Also you dilute the word kriya and kundalini to give it a positive spin, which will confuse the reader. No Kriya or Kundalini is approved by Gurbani in the Vedic scriptures and 3HO way. Techniques which are approved through Gurbani do not follow any of what the Vedic scriptures prescribe or what 3HO practice. Gurbani very clearly states the practice of yoga does not satisfy anyone. No where does Gurbani say that any kriya, yoga, kunadalini are to be used to improve, help, and aid in a Sikhs Sikhi.

Kundalini incorporated with shabad is not paranyam or hatha yoga, you are mixing the two.
Kundalini kriya incorporated with shabad is one of way as spiritual aid to do jaap that naturally opens up kundalini/nabhi in over time, its just one of smallest aspect in shabad surat yoga, its same swas gras/swas simran is one of the way in shabad surat marg. No one is claiming be all or end all just like akj does not claim swas gras simran is be all or end all same like that 3ho does not claim kundalini kriyas is be all or end all.
Kundalini and some of kriyas is mentioned in gurbani along with swas gras simran:
As i said earlier, 3ho incorporates gur shabad in the kriyas and thats what distinguish them with other yog mats.
3HO incorporates gur shabad, they also incorporated bhagti/gyan/advait in their life style not sure why you deliberating ignoring that- for eg have you forgotten to check the seva and kirtan they do in devotion - kirtan bhakti and seva bhagti is also one of nine forms of prema bhagti aspect.

isD swiDk kyqy muin dyvw ] sidhh saadhhik kaethae mun dhaevaa || The many Siddhas and seekers, silent sages and demi-gods hiT ingRih n iqRpqwvih Byvw ] hat(h) nigrehi n thripathaavehi bhaevaa || cannot satisfy themselves by practicing restraint through Hatha Yoga. sbdu vIcwir ghih gur syvw ] sabadh veechaar gehehi gur saevaa || One who contemplates the Word of the Shabad, and serves the Guru min qin inrml AiBmwn AByvw ]6] man than niramal abhimaan abhaevaa ||6|| - his mind and body become immaculate, and his egotistical pride is obliterated. ||6||

They don't do hatha yoga kriyas, its kundalini incorporated with shabad- focus remains on shabad/navel or sometimes trikurti its perfetably fine* .And they also incorporate shabad in their kriyas and bhagti devotion towards guru sahib/gyan in their daily life style so no issue there.
*please listen to sant isher singh ji rara sahib atamik vichar tape - he goes through different stages all the way to end stage, during the tape he goes through shabad surat marg where its talk about nabhi/kundalini is awakened in nabhi chakra.
Edited by N30S1NGH

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What nonsense! Swaas swaas simran as taught by Panj Piare has not nothing to do with Kundalni Yoga! Or yoga in general.

What that singhni has told you is not right and countless other who have had naam drirh will agree. Please read bhai sahibs books for more info regarding simran jugti. Please top using this example.

Some have even called swaas swaas jugti of naam as hath yoga which is also nonsense. Actually if swaas swaas simran is practised with correct technique then it is opposite to that of hath yoga.

Swaas swaas simran is just a technique to japp naam. Further to this, dhyaan, prem and vairaag are required in addition to listening to the dhuni (sound) of of Naam with our surat. Nowhere in Gurbani does it state to sit to adopt techniques of Yog mat. Instead Gurbani whows a simple path to Parmatma by doing sifat salah of Parmeshar through Naam and paath/kirtan of Gurbani.

All this confusion has arised because the technique of swaas swaas simran is not being taught by panj piare in amrit sanchars.

If one wants to learn about naam abhiyaas and dasam duar then please read the relevant books by bhai randhir singh jee.

The main jugti of Naam is "prem". No need for yogmat techniques. A Gursikh who does naam abhiyaas, keeps rehit e.t.c will reach dasam duar, so what is the need for kundalani yoga, dancing, breathing techniques, sitting techniques?

The "spitritual aids" for Gursikhs are Rehit, Kirtan, Santhiyaa and Sangat.

Also the use of terms "protestant" and "abrahamic" is not right. Is bhai randhir singh also a "protestant" because they rejected yogmat and believed in the supremacy of Gurmat? Are then all those who reject yogmat and have shardha only in Gurbani "protestant" or "right-wing extremists". All this name calling is empty it has no basis.

Bhul chuk maaf jee.

Kriya of swas gras/swas kriya of kundalini are same, is used with effort which advertently/inadvertently awakens kundalini inside.
Kundalini is one of aspect of swas swas simran. It's one of development stages within swas gras /swas simran where kundalini is awakened its one of stage. No one is saying its end all or be all.
Is it along with swas gras simran mandatory ? No its just one of kriyas/techniques.
There are many meditation techinques/aids.
For eg- akj and taksal have different meditation techniques.
No one group can claim supermacy that their technique is valid and rest are invalid. They are all just aids, if one wraps their head around them its not fault of technique rather person.

Swaas swaas simran is just a technique to japp naam. Further to this, dhyaan, prem and vairaag are required in addition to listening to the dhuni (sound) of of Naam with our surat. Nowhere in Gurbani does it state to sit to adopt techniques of Yog mat. Instead Gurbani whows a simple path to Parmatma by doing sifat salah of Parmeshar through Naam and paath/kirtan of Gurbani.

The main jugti of Naam is "prem". No need for yogmat techniques. A Gursikh who does naam abhiyaas, keeps rehit e.t.c will reach dasam duar, so what is the need for kundalani yoga, dancing, breathing techniques, sitting techniques?
Exactly..we are talking on a same token kundalini is just a technique to jaap naam.
Who said 3ho does not have prem, vaairaag. Are you antar jaami veer ji who can measure someone prem in their heart?
As i said earlier, 3ho incorporates bhagti/prem/vaariag/gyan/shabad surat aspects of sikhi in their daily life.
Edited by N30S1NGH

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The "spitritual aids" for Gursikhs are Rehit, Kirtan, Santhiyaa and Sangat.

Definition of rehit is both inner and outer not just outer. Who said spiritual aids such as some of kriyas including kundalini kriyas- swas gras simran, swas swas simran are not part of some of inner rehit/aids to assist? You are assuming things veer ji.

Just like akj compliments their gursikhi life style with rehit of sarbloh bibek. 3ho also compliments their gursikhi life style with swas gras/swas swas simran/kundalini yogic kriyas incorporated with shabad.
If both group members start wrapping their head around rehit of sarbloh bibek and kundalini yoga respectively then I am sorry both members have some what lost an overall plot in sikhi as they made it into road block and as these things are spiritual aids/reference points part of outer/inner rehit not destination itself...!!!

Also the use of terms "protestant" and "abrahamic" is not right. Is bhai randhir singh also a "protestant" because they rejected yogmat and believed in the supremacy of Gurmat? Are then all those who reject yogmat and have shardha only in Gurbani "protestant" or "right-wing extremists". All this name calling is empty it has no basis.

There are 100 year old reformist views, and there are traditional views and traditional gurmat frame work.

Not all reformist sikh veiws based on Protestantism/jevoh witness type ideology - black and white are correct not all sikh traditional views in garb of puratan tradition are correct.

However, reformist tried to change fundamental frame work of sikhi with christian/protestant type of framework and that has to highlighted. I am sorry if my words are harsh.

Edited by N30S1NGH

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