Kundalini Yoga And Yogi Bhajan

[Guest Sikhism]

Yoga has nothing to do with Sikhi. If it did then a person who is physically handicapped cannot realize Vaheguru. Neither does yoga help to improve a person's spirituality in Sikhi. When the Gurus speak about yoga in a positive light in Gurbani they are referring to when a Sikh comes to the Guru to learn how to give the mind to the Guru. So they have redefined what Yoga means. The old meaning that yoga means union (not in all cases) is somewhat accepted, but the key part the Vedic scriptures miss out on is By Guru Grace. Vedic scriptures say you need A Guru, but Gurbani rejects this and says you need The True Guru. It is rejected, but the true meaning is added.

Then there is another meaning which the Vedic scriptures describe where they practice postures, mundras, mantras, and breathing exercises, which are one of the path to achieve union with God. Again this meaning and practices of yoga are rejected by Gurbani . We all need to remember that the Vedic scriptures describe that yoga (postures, mundras, etc) is one of the ways to gain union with God, but they also say there are 3 other ways. Another is through attaining Vedic knowledge, which they also describe as yoga (union of atma with God). The people of the Vedic scriptures do not practice these postures to stretch their bodies before starting a fitness class. They followed these practices of Kundalini Yoga, Hatha Yoga, Tantra yoga, kirya yoga, etc to gain union with God. However Gurbani rejects these practices as ways to gain union or as spiritual tools.

By saying Krishna we do not become hindus, but stretching our bodies before a fitness class we are not practicing yoga. It is called stretching. However the actions of 3HO group fits in the definition of Vedic scriptures and Gurbani rejects such practices. They make specific parts of Shabads as mantras, hold a certain posture, do certain mundras, and do certain breathing exercises. The Gurus tell us that focusing and devoting the MIND toward Gurbani is the only yoga a Sikh needs to do. A person who is handicapped, who cannot move his hands, who has a hard time breathing can all gain union and not for a second have to complete false practices which 3HO are teaching and practicing.

Jap ji sahib says in the school of the shabad is where us Sikhs train the mind and gain union.

[Guest Paul]

In my opinon Yogi Bhajan by some reasons didn`t teach his desciples authentic sikh path. That`s why 3ho gurudwara is different (there are portraits of Y.Bhajan and Baba ShriChand and of Gurus near Siri Guru Granth). He tought people to dress in white. You may see that there are always bigstone rings on him. In book of dr.Trilochan, dr Trilochan himself says that Y.Bhajan told him that sikhism is only an off-shot to his tantric practices (book is written in mid `70). He tought tantric kundalini yoga first and that is really unsikhi way to reach highier counciousness. He used his own way to give spiritual names (you may get one online through their web site) and khalsa titles and even took the name of Siri Singh Sahib. And all of his biography is full with things you should believe only, so that tells me that he was a self-made man.

But on the other hand I met a lot of people whose life has changed to a better when they started to practice kundalini yoga sadhana.

I agree that 3ho movement in the core is more vedic then Sikhi, and we should not blend these two if we respect and understand GuruNanak. So if it is yogic path, why people dress in sikhi way and use sikh symbols?

If i`m wrong and there is a necessity to unite these traditions in 3ho and Yogi Bhajans way, please comment, and tell me why to do so?

I really recommend to read dr Trilochan book about Yogi Bhajan teachings and Sikhism http://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,7478,7482

Paul

[skaur8888]

I attended a kundalina yoga retreat once and they seemed to be more concerned about making money, this put me off as they have no right to make money from the Guru and also dancing while listening to shabad, on the Sikhnet site the Yogi Bhajan seems to have an almost guru like status - I'm sure a lot of the people following him are genuine but there seems something dubious about it . He doesn't seem very humble

[skaur8888]

also if his yoga was connected to Sikhi why didn't he reveal it to other Sikhs in India before going to USA, I think unfortunately it may be money related, another sign that he's not a humble being

[luckysingh99]

I attended a kundalina yoga retreat once and they seemed to be more concerned about making money, this put me off as they have no right to make money from the Guru and also dancing while listening to shabad, on the Sikhnet site the Yogi Bhajan seems to have an almost guru like status - I'm sure a lot of the people following him are genuine but there seems something dubious about it . He doesn't seem very humble

It's unfortunate that you had such an experience. Where exactly was this retreat ???

Do you think they all dance to shabads ?

Was any dancing happening within the vicinity or in the presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji prakash ?

Have you ever seen anything or heard about anything disgraceful happening between us Punjabis IN THE presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji ??

Sorry, to put the questions like this but we are ALL guilty of jumping and accusing other sects or jathabandis and highlighting their wrongs whereas we have to remember that there are many wrongs within the Punjabi communities compared to the gora Sikhs as well.

At the end of the day, I have to applaud and hand it to the yogi for converting and transforming over 200,000 white hippies and goras into FULL Sikhs in Guruji's Bana. We don't even have any single Baba/Sant or leader that can make a Quarter of that number of monas, sehajdharies..etc.. into FULL Punjabi Sikhs in Bana do we ??

But instead, we slate him for the few wrongs we find and this just shows the typical cultural behavior among us.

For the good that he may have done, I should be thankful but not for the bad stuff like money laundering, profiting and self gains from retailing products...etc..

.

I am not trying to say that he or 3HO deserve our respect but I would rather approach the issues with a neutral state of mind and then decide after seeing the evidence.

I don't like to judge and as Sikhs we should try and minimize as much as possible when we can............

Guru Nanak Dev ji says on Ang 1027

ਕਿਸ ਹੀ ਮੰਦਾ ਆਖਿ ਨ ਚਲੈ ਸਚਿ ਖਰਾ ਸਚਿਆਰਾ ਹੇ ॥੧੪॥

Kis hī manḏā ākẖ na cẖalai sacẖ kẖarā sacẖi▫ārā he. ||14||

Do not call anyone else bad; follow this way of life. Those who are true are judged to be genuine by the True Lord. ||14||

Then, Guru Angad Dev ji says that we should judge ourselves 1st before we judge any 3rd person or party.

on Ang 148-

ਨਾਨਕ ਪਰਖੇ ਆਪ ਕਉ ਤਾ ਪਾਰਖੁ ਜਾਣੁ ॥

Nānak parkẖe āp ka▫o ṯā pārakẖ jāṇ.

O Nanak, if someone judges himself, only then is he known as a real judge.

[stingers12]

but it is true, then they should read the shabads from guru sahib if people are going to dance with there hair uncovered, and they also tell the people to get and start dancing, and also what is there main puprose it is to promote yoga instead of sikhi, are they going around and promoting sikhism or how they trying to promoting tantric yoga,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSr8vihJefg

[luckysingh99]

That video answers a few questions and is not something that they should be proud of.

Even if Sri Guru Granth Sahib prakash is not there at that moment, then it should be and we should still be respecting the manji or the throne/seat of Guruji.

Just because Guruji is not on the throne doesn't mean one can do whatever they wish on those grounds can it ?

I hope they have got the message and learnt from these mistakes because I would be real shocked to see something recent with similar accounts of bedbi.

[stingers12]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfOgUN3ZagY&feature=player_embedded

[stingers12]

but htey are alright pretty good people

[skaur8888]

It's unfortunate that you had such an experience. Where exactly was this retreat ???

Do you think they all dance to shabads ?

Was any dancing happening within the vicinity or in the presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji prakash ?

Have you ever seen anything or heard about anything disgraceful happening between us Punjabis IN THE presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji ??

Sorry, to put the questions like this but we are ALL guilty of jumping and accusing other sects or jathabandis and highlighting their wrongs whereas we have to remember that there are many wrongs within the Punjabi communities compared to the gora Sikhs as well.

I can only go what I experienced while I was on the retreat which lasted a week, gurbani, for example, sunnia from japji Sahib, was used to accompany yoga sets, there was no explanation of its relation to Sikhi, when I discussed it with the instructors they acknowldeged what it was. There was no education to the people at the class about how to respect gurbani (covering head). dancing did not occur in precence of Guruji, but shabad come from Guruji and I would think the words deserve the same respect as if Guruji was present. Gurbani was used in the context of conquering negative psychological states like a mantra and no mention made of Viaguru. I;m afraid that was enough for me and its not a case of judging any particular groups, but distortion of gurbani

Yes plenty goes on amongst Punjabis but we are taught the significance of gurbani and how to respect it - whereas Kundalini Yoga is using gurbani to make it palatable for the majority of people who attend their classes and will not be inclined to explore the origins of it. Just because they are gora (and some Punjabis may be disrespecting Sikhi) does not mean they should be excused from respecting gurbani. I would recommend you try one of the classes so you can see what actually goes on.