Animal Sacrifices?!

[Mahakaal96 318]

This is a quote I read from a book

" You Know you have found GOD when you observe that you will not murder ( that is willfully kill without cause). For while you will understand that you cannot end another's life in any event ( all life in eternal ) , you will not choose to terminate any particular incarnation, nor change any life energy from one form to another, without the most sacred justification. Your new reverence for life will cause you to honor all life forms- including plants, trees and animals-and to impact them only when it is for the highest good"

Might as well become a Jain then and tie up your mouth so you don't kill any bacteria and carry a broom and fixate your eyes to the floor so you don't kill any insects. Stop eating plants as they are described in bani as life forms and also proven by science to have life.

[Mahakaal96 318]

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Forget the chicken, jhatka this one:

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/72982-visiting-sikh-priest-received-90-days-in-jail-for-sex-assault/

Look, put the whole complex, deep, big-worded, mystical arguments aside and look at this a bit practically:

With all of the corrupt "Sikh" politicians and genocidal Punjab Police officers, it really does not make sense to kill a chicken - its not like there is a lack of targets to practice on. With all of the jhatka going on to prove warrior status and infuse Shakti etc. etc., you would think that the Indian government would be shaking in their boots from the Nihungs doing jhatka on every Panthic enemy that dares to do anything against the Panth. Sadly, I haven't seen any Nihungs in a crusade to rid the Panth of such enemies.

If exceptions are made for Nihungs due to their being warriors and Guru Da Ladli Fauj, do they not have a responsibility to act upon their special status in the Panth? If Taksal is teaching Santhiya, Paath, Keertan, Nanaksar is teaching utmost devotion and seva to Guru Sahib, AKJ is going Keertan seva - Nihungs are doing what exactly? If the role based model of Sikhi, where each Jathebandi has a role is to be accepted, are the Nihung Singhs actually serving their purpose? Jhatka is not supposed to be a way to get Bibek KFC or Mahaparshad - if everything that is used to defend jhatka is to be believed, the Nihungs would be an indomitable force that would fight to the last breath and body to liberate the Panth from its enemies - where are the Youtube videos of that? I don't see any Nihung brothers and sisters out there in force (not talking about individuals - entire Nihung regiments) waging Dharm Yudh against the enemies of the Panth.

If you want to do Jhakta and claim this is the warrior's path - should there not be a warrior's output from those belonging to Nihung jathebandis? It's like signing onto a nation's army, performing all of the training, and then when a foreign nation's army attacks you, so sit there stabbing target dummies and polishing/oiling their guns.

Something don't add up.

The 'panth' your talking about forsake the nihangs and long ago turned their backs on the nihangs. When the 'panth' thought everything was hunky dorey with the formation of SGPC and Singh Sabha no one gave a second thought about nihangs. The 'panth' thought their future was secure and that bad times or war would not be faced by the 'panth' so what need is there for nihangs?! The 'panth' had their new committees and leaders, who gave the nihangs a second thought?

The nihangs who were once allowed to take whatever maya they needed from any gurdwara for their day to day running were no forced out to the outskirts of the 'panth' unable to financially keep good horses or keep good up to date weapons. They were thrown out of gurdware where they once resided and at some places even refused langar. When the British in panjab employed a shoot on site policy for nihangs what did the 'panth' do?! When the nihangs all left panjab and went into exile at hazoor sahib or hid away living in jungles what did the 'panth' do?! The nihangs who were once feared by all, the nihangs who used to use the money from gurus golak to keep the best horses and best weapons and protect all were now replaced by corrupt sell outs who only intended on stealing from the gurus golak then what did the panth do?!

Fast forward in time and people ask why don't the nihangs do anything? Why don't they help the 'panth'?

You don't see nihangs getting their dastars removed or getting hassled by anyone do you?

The time WILL come when 96krore Khalsa fauj will take part in Dharam Yudh..... Not for the 'panth' but for Dharam.

Every bachan that mahraj has said about his fauj will become partak, just like the bachans about fake singhs in the 'panth' are becoming partak.....

[ms514 425]

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

So...are you implying that the Nihungs are in worse shape now than when the Mughals were around? They seemed to do OK with the limited resources at their disposal back then.

Come to think of it, what funding is SGPC and the Panth at large providing Taksal, Nanaksar, AKJ, Kaar Seva Babae? It appears that they do get donations and means to survive (and grow, no less) by their seva. If Nihungs took over seva of utilizing their Shastars in service of the Panth, they would probably be more powerful than any other Jathebandi (think how much of Puinjab would donate arms, money and their families to that cause).

Sant Jarnail Singh Ji did not have a treasure chest, but because he was willing to stand up and do seva of the Panth, the resources came to him from the Sangat.

[N30S1NGH 3,139]

ਮਾਸੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਰਿ ਮੂਰਖੁ ਝਗੜੇ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਣੈ ॥

The fools argue about flesh and meat, but they know nothing about meditation and spiritual wisdom.

Yes that includes fools from both extreme- ultra veggie fools and ultra tamoguni non veggies fools both have lost plot. Gurmat is unique, center, balanced path..!!

[BritishSingh 96]

This is a thread about 'animal sacrifices', so why are people talking about eating jhatka meat or eating veggies?

As for animal sacrifices: I would like to know to whom do the animals get sacrificed? because Waheguru doesn't need it & Sikhi beleives in one Waheguru not 330 million Devte.

Gurbani tells us to sacrifice ouselves (hao man arpi, sabh tan arpi), thus showing full devotion to Waheguru.

[N30S1NGH 3,139]

would like to know to whom do the animals get sacrificed? because Waheguru doesn't need it & Sikhi beleives in one Waheguru not 330 million Devte.

To chandi which is aad shakti of akaal purkh. Please listen to bhaugti katha by sant gurbachan singh bhindranwale to find out more about diferent shakti of akaal purkh- para shakti, chandi,bhaugti, bhagvta etc

Gurbani tells us to sacrifice ouselves (hao man arpi, sabh tan arpi), thus showing full devotion to Waheguru.

Fully agreed, no one disagrees with devotional aspect, thats bhagti aspect and other one is shakti aspect.

[aman12 28]

There are many paths to Akal Purekh. Akal Purekh is limitless, beyond beginning & end, beyond time, beyond death, his limits are not known, he is beant. If Akal Purekh is sooo vast and incomprehensible in his limits then how can there be only one path to merge with him?!

It is your limited budhi that does not let you see or accept that there may be some people in this world who's path towards Akal Purekh involves bhang and jhatka.

Yes there are many paths that lead to akal purakh. But im talking about the path laid out in Sikhi. So with that in mind, how exactly does those practices help me reach akal purakh? And for arguments sake, consider me a murakh who knows nothing about these matters.

Im gonna ignore your next paragraph since i got nothing against people eating meat when they need to.

[Mahakaal96 318]

Yes that includes fools from both extreme- ultra veggie fools and ultra tamoguni non veggies fools both have lost plot. Gurmat is unique, center, balanced path..!!

Real Nihangs who consume jhatka are very respectful towards samparda that keep sato Guni diet, in return puratan samparde like udasi, nirmala & seva panthi are respectful towards Nihang Singh maryada. This mutual respect is born out of 'gyan'. Those who argue about these things and cause problems by speaking bad about each others maryada are just agyani fools.

And n30 Singh ji mahaprashad is not tamo guni, your are mistaken if you think this. Even in swami shivanand ji's book on brahmacharya he lists meat as a rajo guni food. If one were to consume raw flesh like aghoris do then this is tamo guni, cooked flesh is rajo guni.

Jhatka that has been carried out after the reading of japji sahib and Chandi di // and then has ardas and kirpan bhet bhog performed is considered sato guni.

[Babbar_Singhsta 64]

VJKKVJKF. does anybody have katha on chandi, jatka , maha parshad and shaheedi degh ? or other puratan traditions by mahapurakh or uchi avasta singhs such as giani thakur singh jee....

be it taksali , nihang or whatever point of view...

lets get gyan of these amazing mahapurakh on these topics , as we are dirt and know nothing.

posts the links pleas babeyo!

p.s the video of baba nihal singh jee on shaheedi degh is very old... he doesn't shak shaheedi degh anymore nor tells anybody too

akaal

[Mahakaal96 318]

Yes there are many paths that lead to akal purakh. But im talking about the path laid out in Sikhi. So with that in mind, how exactly does those practices help me reach akal purakh? And for arguments sake, consider me a murakh who knows nothing about these matters.

Im gonna ignore your next paragraph since i got nothing against people eating meat when they need to.

A veragi teagi Bhagat will lead a life of complete detachment and eat very simple and live very simply as this will be beneficial to his way of life and path of bhagti.

A ghristi jeeve will live his life as a householder and be required to pay attention to his wordly affairs whilst doing whatever bhagti he does. His bhagti may take on the form of visiting gurdwara, basic nitnem and lots of pun dhaan but it's his path.

A warrior who worships Akal Purekh through his sargun shakti whilst being knowledgeable about gods nirgun form will carry out shaster pooja, perfect his knowledge and use of weapons. As nihangs could lead a nomadic lifestyle that is physically very demanding and will consume shaheedi degh as part of that lifestyle as a medicine, aid in meditation and for general up keep of maryada. He will perform jhatka to anoint his weapons, to practice his martial skill and consume the meat to keep his body physically fit and robust for his nomadic lifestyle.... All of this is his bhagti. Reaching god does not mean sitting crossed leg in a room, he can be experienced & worshipped in all of the above and countless other ways.

The vastness of Sikhi is what gives it beauty and balance

[Mahakaal96 318]

VJKKVJKF. does anybody have katha on chandi, jatka , maha parshad and shaheedi degh ? or other puratan traditions by mahapurakh or uchi avasta singhs such as giani thakur singh jee....

be it taksali , nihang or whatever point of view...

lets get gyan of these amazing mahapurakh on these topics , as we are dirt and know nothing.

posts the links pleas babeyo!

p.s the video of baba nihal singh jee on shaheedi degh is very old... he doesn't shak shaheedi degh anymore nor tells anybody too

akaal

Veere listen to Asa di vaar viakhiya part 25 by Giani thakur Singh ji. He talks about jhatka. You can listen to it on http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audio

Here is a translation of what Giani ji says:

"Nihang Singhs eat Jhatka meat because of their traditions. The Guru allowed this tradition of Jhatka to be practised within his army and by his soldiers; it was not for civilians to eat. Maharaj said to them that if need be you may Jhatka an animal and eat it, not just goats or chickens but any animal you may find in the jungle. The Nihang Singhs of today still follow this tradition. When performing Jhatka on a goat, first the goat is bathed, then Japji Sahib and Chandi Di // are read. One Singh stands by the head of the goat and upon the final lines of Chandi Di // being read, Those who sing this divine ballad will be liberated from the realm of life and death, at this moment the goat is decapitated with one blow and the soul of the goat is liberated. The goat itself lowers its head to receive salvation. (Giani Thakur Singh, Asa Di // Viakhya Part 25)

[N30S1NGH 3,139]

And n30 Singh ji mahaprashad is not tamo guni, your are mistaken if you think this. Even in swami shivanand ji's book on brahmacharya he lists meat as a rajo guni food. If one were to consume raw flesh like aghoris do then this is tamo guni, cooked flesh is rajo guni.

Jhatka that has been carried out after the reading of japji sahib and Chandi di // and then has ardas and kirpan bhet bhog performed is considered sato guni.

I agree bro, I didn't mention anything regarding mahaprashad being tamogun.. above was general statement regarding two extremes. I agree extreme tamoguni would be aghoris and extreme satoguni would be jains.. Jains make vaishnu bhramins look like murders lol... There is always a future fanatic nut bar out there somewhere from both sides make current fanatic from their ghetto look like kacha pilla dhilla and put them out of their business to take over. Both extremes are wrong.

[Mahakaal96 318]

I agree bro, I didn't mention anything regarding mahaprashad being tamogun.. above was general statement regarding two extreme. I agree extreme tamoguni would be aghoris and extreme satoguni would be jains.. Jains make vaishnu bhramins look like murders lol... There is always a future fanatic nut bar out there somewhere from both sides make current fanatic from their ghetto look kacha pilla dhilla and put them out of their business to take over. Both extremes are wrong.

This fanaticism on both sides is wrong and very damaging to the panth but I must say that from all the real nihangs I met in India they are very respectful of sato gun aradhnah path and likewise singhs from taksal accepted Nihang Singh practice of jhatka and degh. The problem is in the west. Unknowledgeable jatha fanatics and wana be nihangs and taksalis fighting over what they consume just to feed this temporary body we are living in, it's sad state of affairs.

[aman12 28]

A veragi teagi Bhagat will lead a life of complete detachment and eat very simple and live very simply as this will be beneficial to his way of life and path of bhagti.

A ghristi jeeve will live his life as a householder and be required to pay attention to his wordly affairs whilst doing whatever bhagti he does. His bhagti may take on the form of visiting gurdwara, basic nitnem and lots of pun dhaan but it's his path.

A warrior who worships Akal Purekh through his sargun shakti whilst being knowledgeable about gods nirgun form will carry out shaster pooja, perfect his knowledge and use of weapons. As nihangs could lead a nomadic lifestyle that is physically very demanding and will consume shaheedi degh as part of that lifestyle as a medicine, aid in meditation and for general up keep of maryada. He will perform jhatka to anoint his weapons, to practice his martial skill and consume the meat to keep his body physically fit and robust for his nomadic lifestyle.... All of this is his bhagti. Reaching god does not mean sitting crossed leg in a room, he can be experienced & worshipped in all of the above and countless other ways.

The vastness of Sikhi is what gives it beauty and balance

Eating meat because your lifestyle demands it is understandable.

Taking bhang when one is perfectly healthy & when the panth is not at war..doesn't really make much sense to me. And if it aids in mediation, then why didn't Guru Ji tell the whole panth to take it regularly? The way im looking at it is this; If something could help a Sikh in mediation of all things, then wouldn't it be mentioned & stressed upon by our Gurus?

As for using goat's blood on Guru Ji's weapons..eh i really do want to understand the logic behind this but i need some historical reference of it being acceptable. So if you know about a source dating back to Guru Ji's time talking about this practice, let me know & i'll get to my reading.

[N30S1NGH 3,139]

This fanaticism on both sides is wrong and very damaging to the panth but I must say that from all the real nihangs I met in India they are very respectful of sato gun aradhnah path and likewise singhs from taksal accepted Nihang Singh practice of jhatka and degh. The problem is in the west. Unknowledgeable jatha fanatics and wana be nihangs and taksalis fighting over what they consume just to feed this temporary body we are living in, it's sad state of affairs.

Yeah I was talking to many parchariks regarding state of youth here for eg gyani sher Singh was flabbergasted regarding fascism here among sikh youths.. He said aurenzebi type sharia ism sikhi has taken birth in west.. While in East sikhs regardless of differences are very understanding, tolerant and in general very happy.