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Missionaries Infiltrating Uk Sikh Organisations

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Check your pm dasam ji. I have responded to your query. Don't want to go way off-topic here.

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N30singh ji

We know harpreet is rabid opponent of Dasam bani.It has been discussed here on this forum earlier.

He came here to defend himself . Nirbhau singh has replied him well but harpreet is stubborn like missionaries.

.There are tapoban singhs there who also represent akj.

I invite harpreet to come to this forum and i will show him that Guru Gobind singh ji himself compiled Dasam Granth

sahib and there two manuscripts of 1696 and 1698 AD.

Though you have bared his credentials well,But let us not divert the topic and stay focussed on the issue. You

can start another thread on his balsphemic views as he is disputing Bachiter Natak also and yet claim to represent

akj.

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If AKJ UK who have doubts on dasam bani wants proper vichar I can get my dasam granth ustad ji Giani Gurdev singh who has spent 15 years learning gurbani, sri dasam guru granth from sampardvas.. He is very gupt though I can only request him. He met Dr anokh singh, Kulbir singh ji of tapoban they had great vichar.

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It's been explained and mentioned by GPSji that the problem is some of the views and attitudes from AKJ-UK.

We need to understand the issue at hand here and it is not entirely about akj.

As the average joe and the few akj from UK that I have known, I can say that they do have confusion about dasam bani.

Just as they doubt the authenticity of raagmala they also doubt that parts of the dasam bani are by dasam pita.

This is what I have personally gathered from my own personal experience and I can also say that the few members that I knew were also quite hesitant to discuss dasam bani.

I don't know exactly what the stance of missionaries is on dasam bani, whether they reject all of it or just some parts of it,- Maybe the more learned members on here can elaborate.

AKJ as a whole have done a great job with pulling in younger youth with their seva and kirtan, especially in UK. Therefore, we shouldn't be bashing at whole jatha in any respect compared to some of the complete manmatt deras that exist in our world today.-that need all the bashing !

As for this whole calendar issue- I am inclined to think that it is much more about politics rather than seva of the panth.

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I met shingara singh a few months ago near/in handsworth wood before he died so I could have a discussion with him about God. The nice thing about him was that at such an old age he was high spirited even after being so alone as he had no family (they had left him). I remember going upstairs to his room where he was doing paart of guru ji and he was really welcoming.

BUT and now this is a BIG BUT I was disappointed after meeting him as he asked me and my friend to do simran with him but when we just started doing simran he stopped and asked if we had "naam drir" which to I said I am not akj. He suddenly stopped doing simran and said you must go pesh into AKJ, I kind of laughed but didn't say anything in return as I didn't feel I needed to explain myself and besides I respected him too much to even argue. Then before I left he started talking about how raagmala wasn't gurbani even though he knew I wasn't akj and that I believed in all of gurbani.

I came to visit him and talk about God but unfortunately this wasn't the case. But if seniors are doing this kind of veechar to the youth then it is disappointing... I see this as a problem with senior gursikhs doing dodgy veechar and causing splits in the panth rather than unity.

Yes like I said he never backs down in a fight and like all Sikhs, he had his controversial views but still he would engage with us and we could look past his views, and he would look past our views - I never agreed with him on rag mala and I always used to mock him for doing akhand path rolls where rag mala was read at the end - he would smile and back off

Also on naam drir - that was his belief because of his personal experience I have heard many people saying I didn't get anywhere spiritually until I met sant baba ............... ! So we never gave it a second thought, he was welcome to his opinion, but he was always welcoming and always talking about Sikhi and encouraging us to do simran, regardless of being akj or not.

even sant baba mani singh of Uk had some controversial views on caste which I found shocking but I guess we have to learn to look past these things to see the good in people as he was a solid singh.

As for dasam Granth situation within akj there are many within the Jatha who are shocked by the anti dasam sentiment and it has caused deep divides again

It seems like just as the UK and canada seemed like it could be making progress in non violent political movements and support for bhai rajoana and sikh human rights

All of sudden we get split again by a new issue -

It just seems like perfect timing for Indian government as something to divide and distract the uk sangat ?

Dasam Granth has never been a problem so why all of a sudden is it being made a problem ? Dasam Prakash was at hazur sahib when bhai sahib bhai randhir singh was given a siropa and he never wrote anything against it or condemned it in an way.

Is it just to divert our efforts away from the real issue ?

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Bhai sahib Bhai Randhir singh ji and sant Gurbachan singh bhindrewale had very cordial relations.

Once they were invitees at a wedding in Distt Ludhiana. They were lodged in one room for the night.

Both had opposite views on ragmala.But both of them had interests of panth first and foremost.They talked

past midnight about charhdi kala of panth but never touched subject of Rag mala.

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If you want clarification from akj.org/AKJ Toronto, then go to the following program and talk with those individuals which you have questions for:

Nov 02 2013
Aasaa Dee Vaar Keertan
5:00 AM to 10:00 AM
Gurooduaaraa Saaheb-Dixie Road (Hall No. 5)
Aasaa Dee Vaar Keertan: 5:00am-9:00am
Gurmat Vichaar session: 9:30am-10:00am
Ontario Khalsa Darbar
7080 Dixie Road, Mississauga, ON

For Bhai Harpreet Singh Jee's 5 posts on this forum, you can find them here: http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/user/1873-hargurus/

AKJ_pressnote_re_SriDasamBani_10_21_2008

Taran0 Jee is right, I have been saying this all along as well.

All of these arguments are exactly what Sarna, RSS, Congress want. These missionaries are the product of Sarna, RSS and Congress.

That's why the missionaries go against Dasam Granth Sahib, Naam Simran, Sikh Scholars, etc and bring up controversial topics such as meat allowed for all Sikhs (not just Nihang Singhs).

The missionaries have not just infiltrated AKJ UK, but also many UK so called panthic organizations, if I'm not mistaken, one of them is called 'Dal Khalsa'. Also missionaries have infiltrated many Gurdwara committees. The problem is much bigger than just a few AKJ UK individuals.

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Sometimes I get a little confused with what product the missionaries are exactly ?

Sometimes they come across as very anti-ritual and very anti-hindu, so are they more RSS and Congress ?

In all honesty, I don't really want to know what they think or who they are batting for.

For me, It's best to just steer clear of them if I can, because these kind of things become a spiritual drain on my self development as a Sikh.

However, I still thank GPSji for bringing this issue to everyone's attention though.

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If you want clarification from akj.org/AKJ Toronto, then go to the following program and talk with those individuals which you have questions for:

Nov 02 2013

Aasaa Dee Vaar Keertan

5:00 AM to 10:00 AM

Gurooduaaraa Saaheb-Dixie Road (Hall No. 5)

Aasaa Dee Vaar Keertan: 5:00am-9:00am

Gurmat Vichaar session: 9:30am-10:00am

Ontario Khalsa Darbar

7080 Dixie Road, Mississauga, ON

For Bhai Harpreet Singh Jee's 5 posts on this forum, you can find them here: http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/user/1873-hargurus/

AKJ_pressnote_re_SriDasamBani_10_21_2008

Taran0 Jee is right, I have been saying this all along as well.

All of these arguments are exactly what Sarna, RSS, Congress want. These missionaries are the product of Sarna, RSS and Congress.

That's why the missionaries go against Dasam Granth Sahib, Naam Simran, Sikh Scholars, etc and bring up controversial topics such as meat allowed for all Sikhs (not just Nihang Singhs).

The missionaries have not just infiltrated AKJ UK, but also many UK so called panthic organizations, if I'm not mistaken, one of them is called 'Dal Khalsa'. Also missionaries have infiltrated many Gurdwara committees. The problem is much bigger than just a few AKJ UK individuals.

The ;press release you have posted is from genuine jatha whose sewadar was Puran ji.Beofre him was Bhai Ram singh ji.

They were great Gursikhs of charhid kala.How come you have clubbed their letter with harpreet singh's five selected posts.

This letter is by another gursikh and in fact is a retort to harpreet in that thread.Please do not distort the facts.

Please do not bracket them with likes of harpreet singh whose post you should read to decide.His utterances were posted by N30singh

and it seems moderator has removed that Post.His face is unmasked in that post as he is questioning authenticity of Bachitter Natak also.

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dasamsarblohgranth ji

It seems you missed posting about blaspehmic utterances of Harpreet singh .I cite one for your reference

Quote

Harpreet Singh 3. Dasam Granth was never compiled by Guru Sahib or even on Guru Sahib's instructions. So, why is it so unbelievable that some banis that cannot be Gurbani go added? Is there anyone who can claim to be Perfect as Guru Sahib? Dear Veer, the whole point of my post is that these differences are not issues that make us enemies or non-Sikhs. We will resolve these one day...but meanwhile let's stand together for all the similarities we have. Vaaheguroo, bayntee hai Gursikho!
Unquote
You have posted an old threAD WHEREIN ONLY Harprret's view is given. Can you please post the entire thread instead.

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we should change the name of the thread to missionaries infiltrating UK Sikh organisations

they are very clever they have a 3 year course after which your qualified as a gyani (or you can call yourself a professor) - then they send you out - most gurdwara committees will call them over because apparently they have a qualification - they are getting in everywhere

i think we should stop calling gyanis from india full stop - and have home grown parchaaraks like jagraj singh and sukhy and baljit singh, bhai rajoana tv etc

we have better and more inspirational speakers who were born in the UK

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They are nastiks to the core as they are not taught to do naam simran.They are against mystical aspects of sikhi

which are developed only after naam simran. One has three levels namely physical, mental and spiritual.

Missionaries remain upto mental level and believe in what they see with their eyes. But one experiences sikhi

only after transcending mental level.That is why missionaries many times are caught beating about bush especially

when they preach there is no entity called soul.

Not only they ridicule Guru Gobind Singh ji's bani but ALSO preach against teachings of Sri guru Granth sahib.

They sport kirpans outside their shirts but do not believe in waheguru as Gurumantra.

No one gives any importance to them in india. They are unknown entity as they are shunned by faithful sikhs.

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GPS,

You live in California, yet you seem to know everything about the jatha in in UK. This bold statement that AKJ are anti Dasam Granth needs to stop being used. AKJ do jaap, swaiyeh and chopai sahib in the Amrit Sanchars. Many Gurmukhs in the Jatha read Akal Ustat, Chandi di vaar swaiye 33 etc Therefore AKJ DOES believe in Dasam Bani.

Every jathebandi does have bad apples in, but at the same time there are jewels in the Jatha as well. If you have any issues with the Jatha, come to the UK and sit down with Jathedar Raghbir Singh and Bhai Jarnail Singh and have a discussion with them, rather than moaning and groaning on Sikh Sangat forum, which is not going to you achieve anything.

Your wasting your life on this forum, instead read more gurbani or do simran or do more khoj into Guru Gobind Singh Jee's Dasam Bani.

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Taran summed it up!

When it comes to some1 doing parchar work , you gotto step up whos this Desi preacher from a diff continent country? Is he Working for SIkhs In Britain? or Canada wherever you are to address local challenges in Youth.

British SIkhs saying for years we need our own British Born and raised Spiritual Teachers in touch with Youth here to connect better, encourage dharmic growth, education, Unicultural and Interfaith events without diluting ourselves, promoting good health wellbeing, help family and community networking, rediscover our own historical treasures. Some of our jathebandia are doing ace seva including akj.

Indian preachers who themselves are suscpetible to being luded in lecture centres will not question their University Lecturer Why they are taught Nam Simran is wrong?? Or WHy they were taught Baba Deep Singh Ji could not fight headless? WHy have that pedigree of sheep who puts Spiritual dharam last and a stitched up Ideology first to train young sangat?

SIkhi is a Divine Path that can defy logic. Saragahi battle defies logic. The Ras from Gurbani to any Created being defies logic. Because to us if and when we choose to act upon its not a mere Word in Black n WHite. Sant Attar Singh defied logic with no modern tech by influening countless so did Sant Mahapurkh. SIkhi is Unique it empowers Logic to an Unconquered level. Western style logic does not dictate the parametres of dharam.

Be careful with Jathebandis. There have been ruckas back in 1997 1998 inside the uk AKJ where both pro and anti Dasam Granth elements kicked off during Rehras time on a coach to a Rensbhai. One influential Singh made it a point he wanted Rehras stopped at a certain point because he did not believe In dasam Granth, another group inside the same Jatha opposed him, it led to an argument that developed. Then some sangats just quietly doing paat or collectively doing Simran when coaches went smaagams. The Akj applied some good conflict resolution to refocus on their own lives. their not are not all bad apples guys! Please please dont think all akj are one sided.

My experiences with Akj were somewhat diff. I had a great deal of warmth with the elders, some of the Youth were really genuine open friendly, yet a num would not even give eye contact. At first even i found it strange. But you get that in most groups. I came from an area where Sikhs being a minority greeted each other randomly..Jathebandia then were mostly in Sikh Diaspora areas. It was a diff world anyway to living in a Punjabi area where all you see is your own bandeh.

Spread your own love brothers, that love flames its own fragrant revolution onto new generations. Break the grand designs through outreach. In difference there can also be peace and love with Sikhi.

Bhai Rama Singh stayed with a family whos extended cousins followed Sants. At the time one of their nephews was in the warmest friendliest way telling me that upon Mool Mantar recitation he does it upto Nanak Hosi Bi Sach but our other friend does it upto Gurprasad because he is under his own instruction in his own camp. That its upto me to see what i attain. the Singh was blaze buzzing with energy, oozing warmth, projected extreme nimrata totally not into politics, his key was amritvela, and at points only interjected an extreme masculine dominant energy in a brotherly fraternal way to make a point with a joke it was like a giant was entering the space with love and compassion. so i thought theres gotto be more to doing Mool Mangtar upto Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach and broke my previous thought upto Gurprasad. But the level of brotherhood was always kept eventhough diffs existed. In that particular extended family, One was akj the other believed in Sants. It did not break their rishteh. There was a lot of Commaderie and respect. Their level of bhagti was such they would die for each other. And these were no ordinary bods, these were tall wrestler hawkish Singhs well known in West London.

Theres a way of saying something without being controversial or tribal. Given that we have inherited dividing problems. Lets just apply what we can to our own lives.

It is beneficial if Gurdwaras cap Indian raagis entirely. Simply do not open more gurdwaras, Live with what we have and take part in our Heritage. In our local Singh Sabha the sangat take turns to do the rohl. Up the rd theres two gurdwaras 24 7 paat done by sangat. Indian raagis are welcome to stage, but makes no odds sods if they not there. This is not even in a majority Sikh area.

If sangat take apna hissah in their gurdwara things get better tohgether. Put diffs aside work together. Tribalism stays here. We are moving inside our bodies ageing. no akj nihung taksali label is going to accompany us in another 40 50 years when we leave this body.

The day will come if and when we gotto take a stand ( ie Anjum Chaudhary threatened to slander Guru Nanak dev 2005ish) everyone gets together. NIhungs Akj Taksalis Monai even the wrong types you would not expect. Suddenly we all get charged. Your gonna get your diverse crowd up front again. So Lets not knock each other.

Decipher the letter and just go to source gull qhttam.

When i see kids screaming about diffs if only they knew what it was like to be a minority face skinheads bnps then panthers and kaleh gangs. You put all this Sectarian stuff behind. Your Forefathers built you an envirement they did on sacrifices so you could lead a comfortable life. Some1 somewhere along your forefathers worked 2 3 jobs to survive, , screwed their health...

There now has to be a better way to address our current situations without infitghing.

akj is not your enemy. They have done some great work with youth. Many started with akj some moved on some still there. It can be a stepping stone, but dont turn on your brothers. Next man walks in bhaana lloves his sikhi. Give him brotherly piar back. He believes in what he does, its a level of sikhi, for some its like that kudrat makes us all different. Keep the Unity not for one group. But because your Ardas you do 3 4 times a day you end with Sarbat Da Bhalla. Akj man in it too. Baani talks about Humanity that includes all of you, do not break off into little group identities. Your Lions with energy, when that comes together it historically took on superpowers. Dont go down rd Neo Sikh Colonial crap this that. It is what it is in front of your face. Accept and crack on.

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