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Jhatka - The Sikh Method Of Slaughter Vs Halal/kosher...


singhbj singh
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I agree with dasamsarblohgranth veer ji. Current sri akaal takth sahib maryada need to be revamped regarding meat..It's need to reformed from making jhatka meat available to all to only nihangs as there is martial/ deep philosophical/symbolism behind nihang doing jhatka rather than some uncle tom harry doing jhatka and eating jhatka.

What's really funny is that the "martial/deep philosophical/symbolism behind Nihang" Singhs doing jhatka, if explained to the missionaries, would make them want to throw up or have their brains explode.

Missionaries and Nihang Singhs are both pro-meat, for totally different reasons. When you think about how both groups are, it's pretty funny to think of the missionaries' reaction when the "martial/deep philosophical/symbolism" of Nihang Singhs is explained to them.

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Isn't it the case that evenry sikh should aspire to be a sant-siphai (saint-solider) so why would there be one rule for one and another for someone else?

Guru Gobind Singh created the khalsa in order to make one type of sikh. Yes - there are different jathebanids etc, which ultimately shoudn't be the case, but it's absurd to say that one type of sikh can eat meat and another can't.

At the end of the day meat is meat whether you jhatka it, halaal it, kuttha it... and IMHO there is no referece to pro-meat in SGGS ji, see my earlier post.

Giani thakur Singh ji sums up jhatka and who should eat it perfectly in part 25 of Asa di vaar viakhiya which can be found on gurmatveechar.com.

Quotes from Giani ji :
“Today people have changed traditions in order to please the desire of the tongue and eat other forms of meat from shops etc...Jhatka was a special tradition that was only for the soldiers of the Guru to practise, not normal householder Sikhs.” (Giani Thakur Singh, Asa Di // Viakhya Part 25)

"Nihang Singhs eat Jhatka meat because of their traditions. The Guru allowed this tradition of Jhatka to be practised within his army and by his soldiers; it was not for civilians to eat. Maharaj said to them that if need be you may Jhatka an animal and eat it, not just goats or chickens but any animal you may find in the jungle. The Nihang Singhs of today still follow this tradition. When performing Jhatka on a goat, first the goat is bathed, then Japji Sahib and Chandi Di // are read. One Singh stands by the head of the goat and upon the final lines of Chandi Di // being read, ‘Those who sing this divine ballad will be liberated from the realm of life and death’, at this moment the goat is decapitated with one blow and the soul of the goat is liberated. The goat itself lowers its head to receive salvation”. (Giani Thakur Singh, Asa Di // Viakhya Part 25)

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Isn't it the case that evenry sikh should aspire to be a sant-siphai (saint-solider) so why would there be one rule for one and another for someone else?

Guru Gobind Singh created the khalsa in order to make one type of sikh. Yes - there are different jathebanids etc, which ultimately shoudn't be the case, but it's absurd to say that one type of sikh can eat meat and another can't.

Sant "sipahi" has many forms outer/ esoteric forms- sipahi in form of political activist, journalist who just uses shabdvali to subdue the oppressor, leader-jathedar, human right activist, freedom fighter, internal sipahi in form of bibeka who has killed all the demons/ desires and off course outer sipahi- who has practiced martial traditions and upheld and praticised (bhagti in form of shakti) deep philosophical/symbolism of sri dasam guru granth.
We cannot ignore one form over another.
Old traditional sikhi is quite diverse as its four attributes of sikhi beautifully represented (bhagti-nine forms,shabad surat-many meditation techniques/kriyas,advait-gyan and shakti) blended together beautifully* while holding sri guru granth sahib- shabad guru being central theme of all- one can cross platform anytime to be all in one or focus on each aspect of sikh there are no hard or fast rule.
Nihang order (khastri sant-sipahi warrior), nirmale/taksal order (saint-scholars - sipahi in their own right to contemplate on shabad gyan), sevapanthis order - kar seva (sant-scholar/sipahi in form of seva) and udasi order (asectic shabad surat yogic order- yogi sant order if needed its proven in history can provide shaheediya).
*Many nihangs would learn from nirmale, taksal-upsamparda of nirmale, udasi, sevapanthis and vice versa.
What underpins all four orders is sri guru gobind singh -Khalsa inner state of individual- who have tasted atam ras and is enlighten one:
Sri sarbloh granth
Atam Ras Neh Jannehi Sio Haie Khalsa Dev,
Prab Meh Mo Meh Tas Meh Ranchak Naeh Bhaiv ||
The one who has entered the sphere of atma(self), he alone is worthy of the title of the khalsa, he becomes one with me the guru and ultimately God.There is no difference.
Here Guru Gobind singh ji directly explains Khalsa.
"The Khalsa is my exceptional Image,
In the Khalsa ever resides my Spirit.
The Khalsa is my Beloved and Venerable Master,
The Khalsa is my divine Protector.
The Khalsa is my Father and Mother,
The Khalsa is my body and soul.
The Khalsa is embodiment of true and perfect Guru.
The Khalsa is my Gallant and Knightly friend.
I have stated the truth without an iota of misconstruction.
God and Guru Nanak are to this my witnesses."
Guru Gobind Singh, Sarb Loh Granth, (MS), 519-526.

In response to gurbani quotes provided. see- post below.

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/69992-topic-about-meat/?p=566240

This is what i have to say
groups within sikhi like to put sikhi within boundries, a little box...anything within the box is sikhi and anything outside is not...this does not go with the teaching of guru granth sahib...sikhi is more than that...you can not put sikhi within boundires, labels, a box and say its that....
many people will write bhagat kabeer jis baani on here using there baani as a tool to fight against meat eaters...then the supporters of meat will either try to twist bhagat kabeer jis baani and say you are not thinking in perspective of what they were saying etc....
but the truth is this (well for me) there is not 1 answer...several times in your spirtual jeevan youll find out there isn't 1 answer to things...for example waheguru is closest to everyone but at the same time waheguru is the farsest...guru gobind singh ji writes khanda prithmai saaj ke...god createsd the double edged sword first..thr double edged sword represents how the world is,,,life is both posion life is both sweet
GURU Granth sahib will answer this question---in Guru granth sahib every bhagat has his own way of reaching god, those who use bhagat kabirs lines to make their claim against meat..ok..then also go ring bells in mandirs...also go do nawaz like bhagat farid every morning....see 1 bhagat for example bhagat kabeer is saying 1 thing about meat and a topic...while another for example guru nanak dev ji is saying some thing else about the same topic (example the opposite view on the meat situation between them)..but both bhagat kabeers and guru nanak dev jis bani is in guru granth sahib...the point wasnt to do kandhar of the other...but recognize theres differenrt ways of reaching god...wherever the truth was heard guru nanak dev ji accepepted it....that is the universal message of guru granth sahib and sikhs dont even rememeber that..,hardcore jathabndi fanboys will not like my answer but in the end this is wat i feel is the truth...
the vedas each have a different sadhant...message...which will you use, that is up to you, dont get into the kandhar mode of the other ...the vedas dont have writing denouncing the other either....just like in guru granth sahib 1 bhagat isnt denying the other and actually bhagat kabeer mentions bhagat ravidas and bhagat ravidas mentions bhagat kabir and others and they both tell they are all right in their own way and have reached god...this is sikhi....(not actuallty telling you to choose vedas but just giving example of how they are also like that) the matter isnt bringing down the other view point but offering something for all...annd if u cant do that ull be stuck in small fighting and live in boundries...limits
waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh
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Then should Guru gobind singh have had 2 separate amrit snachars? one for the khalsa and one for Nihangs?

Bit silly don't you think?

Sant "sipahi" has many forms outer/ esoteric forms- sipahi in form of political activist, journalist who just uses shabdvali to subdue the oppressor, leader-jathedar, human right activist, freedom fighter, internal sipahi in form of bibeka who has killed all the demons/ desires and off course outer sipahi- who has practiced martial traditions and upheld and praticised (bhagti in form of shakti) deep philosophical/symbolism of sri dasam guru granth.
We cannot ignore one form over another.
Old traditional sikhi is quite diverse as its four attributes of sikhi beautifully represented (bhagti-nine forms,shabad surat-many meditation techniques/kriyas,advait-gyan and shakti) blended together beautifully* while holding sri guru granth sahib- shabad guru being central theme of all- one can cross platform anytime to be all in one or focus on each aspect of sikh there are no hard or fast rule.
Nihang order (khastri sant-sipahi warrior), nirmale/taksal order (saint-scholars - sipahi in their own right to contemplate on shabad gyan), sevapanthis order - kar seva (sant-scholar/sipahi in form of seva) and udasi order (asectic shabad surat yogic order- yogi sant order if needed its proven in history can provide shaheediya).
*Many nihangs would learn from nirmale, taksal-upsamparda of nirmale, udasi, sevapanthis and vice versa.
What underpins all four orders is sri guru gobind singh -Khalsa inner state of individual- who have tasted atam ras and is enlighten one:
Sri sarbloh granth
Atam Ras Neh Jannehi Sio Haie Khalsa Dev,
Prab Meh Mo Meh Tas Meh Ranchak Naeh Bhaiv ||
The one who has entered the sphere of atma(self), he alone is worthy of the title of the khalsa, he becomes one with me the guru and ultimately God.There is no difference.
Here Guru Gobind singh ji directly explains Khalsa.
"The Khalsa is my exceptional Image,
In the Khalsa ever resides my Spirit.
The Khalsa is my Beloved and Venerable Master,
The Khalsa is my divine Protector.
The Khalsa is my Father and Mother,
The Khalsa is my body and soul.
The Khalsa is embodiment of true and perfect Guru.
The Khalsa is my Gallant and Knightly friend.
I have stated the truth without an iota of misconstruction.
God and Guru Nanak are to this my witnesses."
Guru Gobind Singh, Sarb Loh Granth, (MS), 519-526.


In response to gurbani quotes provided. see- post below.

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/69992-topic-about-meat/?p=566240

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Then should Guru gobind singh have had 2 separate amrit snachars? one for the khalsa and one for Nihangs?

Bit silly don't you think?

Amrit sanchar sanskar amrit is same derived from naam amrit, naam amrit is same, bhramgyan amrit is same but rehat/maryadas are different different. If you have issue with unity within diversity, you can take it up to panj takths including budda dal who have different different maryada.

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Then should Guru gobind singh have had 2 separate amrit snachars? one for the khalsa and one for Nihangs?

Bit silly don't you think?

Instead of trying to adjust your own budhi to try and accept that mahraj gave the Khalsa a choice on whether they eat jhatka or not you have instead decided to question the actions of Guru Gobind Singh Ji?!

There are many nihang singhs who accept the maryada of jatkha, are present themselves at jorh mele when jatkha is performed but as a personal choice do not eat meat. Here is a quote from baba Joginder Singh ji of budda dal raqba:

Those who wish to eat meat should eat Jhatka which gears individuals towards warfare. Those Sikhs who just wish to perform selfless service and meditate should avoid meat and maintain a very simple diet. There is no obligation on anyone to eat meat, one should never eat khulla mass. (Jathedar Baba Joginder Singh, Oral Interview July 2006).

I think baba ji's quote and the two I put up earlier from Giani thakur Singh ji sum up overall who jhatka is for. Unfortunately many times as Giani ji says in his katha people abuse the process of jhatka just to satisfy their tongue. Some people who have no desire of ever serving in dharam yudh go to places like hazoor sahib or Nihang dals just so they can eat meat afterwards. Or you will get someone who starts of by claiming the don't want or need to take Amrit and keep kes and be shaster dhari because they are just interested in doing simran and are peaceful soul who sees god everywhere and are not fighting type. After not being able to control their senses and more importantly the desire of their tongue they suddenly realise they are a yodah who can't wait for the next dharam yudh to start and use this as a reason to start eating meat.

A person needs to be honest with themselves and not try to use maryada given especially to the fauj as an excuse to satisfy the flavour of their tongue.

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How many maryadas did guru Gobind Singh administer? More than one?

Amrit sanchar sanskar amrit is same derived from naam amrit, naam amrit is same, bhramgyan amrit is same but rehat/maryadas are different different. If you have issue with unity within diversity, you can take it up to panj takths including budda dal who have different different maryada.

Where has guru sahib said this? I've shown you where SGGS talks against

Instead of trying to adjust your own budhi to try and accept that mahraj gave the Khalsa a choice on whether they eat jhatka or not you have instead decided to question the actions of Guru Gobind Singh Ji?!

There are many nihang singhs who accept the maryada of jatkha, are present themselves at jorh mele when jatkha is performed but as a personal choice do not eat meat. Here is a quote from baba Joginder Singh ji of budda dal raqba:

Those who wish to eat meat should eat Jhatka which gears individuals towards warfare. Those Sikhs who just wish to perform selfless service and meditate should avoid meat and maintain a very simple diet. There is no obligation on anyone to eat meat, one should never eat khulla mass. (Jathedar Baba Joginder Singh, Oral Interview July 2006).

I think baba ji's quote and the two I put up earlier from Giani thakur Singh ji sum up overall who jhatka is for. Unfortunately many times as Giani ji says in his katha people abuse the process of jhatka just to satisfy their tongue. Some people who have no desire of ever serving in dharam yudh go to places like hazoor sahib or Nihang dals just so they can eat meat afterwards. Or you will get someone who starts of by claiming the don't want or need to take Amrit and keep kes and be shaster dhari because they are just interested in doing simran and are peaceful soul who sees god everywhere and are not fighting type. After not being able to control their senses and more importantly the desire of their tongue they suddenly realise they are a yodah who can't wait for the next dharam yudh to start and use this as a reason to start eating meat.

A person needs to be honest with themselves and not try to use maryada given especially to the fauj as an excuse to satisfy the flavour of their tongue.

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How many maryadas did guru Gobind Singh administer? More than one?

Where has guru sahib said this? I've shown you where SGGS talks against

Can you show me where guru sahib has said what the 4 bujjer kurehits are? Can you show me where guru sahib has given order to keep panj kakkar rehit? The Khalsa rehit does not just come from SGGS, it comes from a combination of SGGS, Dasam, sarb loh and puratan rehitnamas uttered by the mouth of Guru Gobind Singh Ji themselves. Many other historical Granths also talk about jhatka maryada, in the past I have posted pangtia from SGGS ji and other sources in support of jhatka but will no longer do this as it is obvious people will still stick to thier pre-conceived notions of what is right and what is wrong, there's nothing wrong with that as long as you have enough gyan to accept the opposite side of the argument as well and realise it's all down to personal preference and suitability. The recent topic on animal slaughter was a good balanced debate. For those who wish to do serious khoj then there is plenty of material available from both sides, all you have to do is research for yourself.

Fateh

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