Futility Of Lights On Divaali

[luckysingh99]

N30 ji has explained that very well and I hope Panthicunity has a better understanding after reading the replies !

I know, we can look at Bhai Gurdasji's shabad and the missionaries use the same argument that the practice of divas is being denied. But you need to realize what the inner devotion is and that it is not the be all and end all.

The problem with this is actually the explaining mixed with the understanding, and N30ji has made a good attempt to help get the message across.

I like the reference N30 ji made to ''Love has No conditions'' .......think ...therefore why should devotion and prem to Guruji have conditions ?

We do chaur sahib because of the King of kings status we give to Guruji in physical form. Guruji sits on the throne at every gurukar but the missionaries can't see or explain this in the same line of thinking.

Talking about 'LOVE', why do we give a rose or flowers to fiancé, wife, partner or even mother on mother's day ??

Because, it's an expression/sargun action/acknowledgment of LOVE. :l:

The person receiving knows very well that the love and devotion is coming from our inner self and cannot be quantified in the flowers, but we still do it without thinking !

In the same way, think about the lighting of candle as just being an initial step/formality to acknowledge the ''celebration' status.

I hope you don't do it empty and think that is the be all and end all

I think it is VERY important to realize that Rituals or Actions do NOT mean they are NOT gurmat.

BUT, EMPTY rituals are definitely NOT gurmat.

Panticunity, I hope you don't mind being corrected in the op because the idea is that you see how we can give inner prem to Guruji.

In all honesty, I think we have all been stuck or questioned the same line of thinking you put in the OP,.........I know I certainly have ! :biggrin2:

I would often question it and think that the raagis are just misusing and twisting Bhai Gurdas ji's shabad just to fill their gholak ! :nono:

Thankfully now, I can see through the foggy lens and can see the shabad speaking to me even louder and clearer.

So, YES is shall still go and light a candle like everyone else and try and remind my kids if they remember what this day means. However, I will also most likely see some who is doing matha tekh and ardas to the candles and then I shall explain again to my kids that we Matha tek Primarily to Guruji in the darbar.

PanthicUnity, I hope you can see where I am coming from ?

[GPS]

Some perople have an agenda of atheism to forward . The starter

of this thread made a remark on the other thread of bandhi chhor diwas.And then he has another

thead here.

He misquotes Bhai Gurdas ji's vaar here.Did he not read Bhai Gurddas ji's vaar in that thread in reply

to his post.

But Bhai Gurdas ji who was contemporary of 2nd to 6th Guru sahiban writes

"Balhar tina Gursikhan bhav bhagat Gurpurb Karande

(I am sacrifice to those Sikhs who celebrate the days of Guru with devotion).

Let us get rid of Missionary mind set that is bent upon of distortion of sikh basics

by quoting selectively out of context.

[Jonny101]

excellent post lucky singh jee

[GPS]

Celebration of Bandi chhod diwas is history.Our history is no way against Gurbani. Sikhi is not only scriptures but comprises

scriptures,Guru panth , traditions and history. It is wholesome or nothing.

And celebration of diwali /bandi chhod diwas is recorded in Bhat vahis of that time

ਭੱਟ ਵਹੀ ਦੀ ਸੁਣੋ....

"ਗੁਰੂ ਹਰਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਜੀ ਮਹਿਲ ਛੇਟਾ ਬੇਟਾ ਗੁਰੂ ਅਰਜਨ ਜੀ ਕਾ, ਸੋਢੀ ਖ੍ਰਤੀ ਚੱਕ ਗੁਰੂ ਕਾ, ਪਰਗਨਾ ਨਿਜਹਾਰਾਲਾ, ਸੰਮਤ ਸੋਲਾ ਸੈ ਛੈਅਤਰ ਕਤਕ ਮਾਸੈ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨਾ ਪਖੇ ਚੋਦਸ ਕੇ ਦਿਨ ਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਬਾਵਨ ਰਾਜੋ ਕੇ ਗੈਲ ਗੜ ਗਵਾਲੀਅਰ ਸੇ ਬੰਧਨ ਮੁਕਤ ਹੁਏ"

"ਨਾਇਕ ਹਰੀਰਾਮ ਦਰੋਗਾ ਬੇਟਾ ਨਾਇਕ ਹਰਬੰਸ ਲਾਲ ਕਾ ਚੰਦਰਬੰਸੀ ਜਾਦਵ ਬਾਹਰਤੀਆ ਕਨਾਵਤ ਨੇ ਬੰਦੀ ਛੋੜ ਗੁਰੂ ਹਰਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਜੀ ਕੇ ਬੰਧਨ ਮੁਕਤ ਹੋਨੇ ਕੀ ਖੁਸ਼ੀ ਮੇ ਦੀਪਮਾਲਾ ਕੀ। ਏਕ ਦਿਵਸ ਨਾਇਕ ਹਰੀਰਾਮ ਕੇ ਗ੍ਰਿਹ ਮੈ ਨਿਵਾਸ ਕਰਕੇ ਗਵਾਲੀਅਰ ਸੇ ਵਿਦਾਇਗੀ ਲੀ। ਰਾਸਤੇ ਕਾ ਪੰਧ ਮੁਕਾਏ ਆਗਰੇ ਆਏ ਨਿਵਾਸ ਕੀਆ" (ਭੱਟ ਵਹੀ ਜਾਦਵਾਸਨ ਬਾਹਰਤੀਨ ਕੀ).

ਨੋਟ : ਦੱਸਣ ਯੋਗ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਕਤਕ ਵਦੀ ੧੪, ੧੬੭੬ ਨੂੰ ਦਿਵਾਲੀ ਸੀ।

unquote

Now readers should read and ask disruptionists from where they get their information.

[GPS]

In next phase of misinformation by missionaries (In fact it has started already) you will see distorted

meanings of Guru Granth sahib ji presented to us.Such as naam japna is keep God in mind.There

is no reincarnation, there is no karmic effect.There is no soul.

Many such interpretations are being forwarded already by their illiterate brigade.Why illiterate? Because they

have neither spiritual elevation nor academic background. Spiritual elevation comes with naam simran

only and it surpasses academic qualifications.They call naam simran parroting.

They are mostly 10 grade basic education and style them as professors. Know nothing about basic rudimentary

science but boast of scientific interpretation of Gurbani to sway ignorant sikh masses.

They have no idea that sikhism is shabad supreme (pardhan) religion and that is the reason we did not write much of

our history.It should not be compared with western school of thought as their society is samaj ( discipline) pardhan.

So their standards are different from us. We need to be careful of this cult who out of their ignorance are misleading

our youth.

[luckysingh99]

Some perople have an agenda of atheism to forward on one pretext or the other. The starter

of this thread made a remark on the other thread of bandhi chhor diwas.And then he starts another

thead to spread misinformation.

He misquotes Bhai Gurdas ji's vaar here.Did he not read Bhai Gurddas ji's vaar in that thread in reply

to his post.

But Bhai Gurdas ji who was contemporary of 2nd to 6th Guru sahiban writes

"Balhar tina Gursikhan bhav bhagat Gurpurb Karande

(I am sacrifice to those Sikhs who celebrate the days of Guru with devotion).

Let us get rid of Missionary mind set that is bent upon of distortion of sikh basics

by quoting selectively out of context.

GPSji, I have a gut feeling that Panthicunity does not have some atheist agenda.

I feel that he is just looking at the shabad superficially, but I may be wrong...... there is a lot of disguised missionary material out there as I have learnt thanks to your good self on the other thread !

In all honesty, I have done this myself like I explained above. And I too, was nodding my head at everyone that was making a trip to gurdwara to light a candle or deeva.

But it was that superficial learning stage where I could have remained if I chose to.

However, I feel it is a very tricky area to explain to someone that can't fully comprehend your understanding when trying to tell them.

Or if they find it difficult to differentiate between ritual practice/devotion and 'Empty'-ritual.

This is where I think N30ji tried well to get the right message across and some comments in his posts, inspired me to expand a little further.

[N30S1NGH]

Panthic unity brother, i do have some hope brother, that you would understand and accept beautiful path of sikhi of totality -sargun-bhagti,shabad nirgun-gyan intertwin with each other-Ikongkar not the missionary interpretations of khandan-mandan of everything... i do found your past post regarding non dualism-advait- I am that i am very intriguing..you seem to be on a right track its just you need little bit more clarification/structure so that its easy to see gurmat more clearly.

I think overall, missionaries those who don't want to listen we should give up but those who we can have dialogue and connect to it, we should make efforts to start -reconciliation process with them so that they can see beautiful path of sikhi in its totality.

[Singh559]

GPSji, I have a gut feeling that Panthicunity does not have some atheist agenda.

I feel that he is just looking at the shabad superficially, but I may be wrong...... there is a lot of disguised missionary material out there as I have learnt thanks to your good self on the other thread !

In all honesty, I have done this myself like I explained above. And I too, was nodding my head at everyone that was making a trip to gurdwara to light a candle or deeva.

But it was that superficial learning stage where I could have remained if I chose to.

However, I feel it is a very tricky area to explain to someone that can't fully comprehend your understanding when trying to tell them.

Or if they find it difficult to differentiate between ritual practice/devotion and 'Empty'-ritual.

This is where I think N30ji tried well to get the right message across and some comments in his posts, inspired me to expand a little further.

True it's easy to get caught up in paranoia without knowing it. If someone has pure intent they realize mistake.

[luckysingh99]

Panthic unity brother, i do some hope brother, that you would understand and accept beautiful path of sikhi of totality -sargun nirgun intertwin with each other-Ikongkar not the missionary interpretations of khandan-mandan of everything... i do found your past post regarding non dualism-advait- I am that i am very intriguing..you seem to be on a right track its just you need little bit more clarification/structure so that its easy to see gurmat more clearly.

I think overall, missionaries those who don't want to listen we should give up but those who we can have dialogue and connect to it, we should make efforts to start -reconciliation process with them so that they can see beautiful path of sikhi in its totality.

Definitely !!!

This is how everyone can help make a true sadh sangat.

SIkhi is ALL about learning.

[GPS]

I do not say he has that agenda.But he has been writing such posts since long here.Please see he writes in other thread

that celebration of bandi chhod diwas is concocted by Mahants.We should know who write such terms. Moreover one should

pass such remarks only if he has read and analysed sikh history thoroughly.

I do not say that bhai sahib is fountainhead of such misinformation but many times one is swayed by incessant propaganda.

One should amend his/her views especially when missionary brigade has been thoroughly exposed by their own comrades

who accuse them of atheism, anti sikh agenda at behest of anti sikh forces, asking sikhs not to keep hair, terming Guru Harkrishan

ji as a kid and questioning why he was given Gurgaddi, terming sGGS ji as a book and propagating to keep it in cupbaords.