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Guest Gurdial Binepal

Amritharis Looking Down On Or Disrespecting Sangat And Monay

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Guest Gurdial Binepal

I hate the big I am aura that young amrithatis try to create. They seem to think that they are in some elite club and that no1 else is worthy. What they don't realise is that they are pushing most of the younger sangat away from Sikhi as they feel that these stuck up hypocritical people are not the kind that they wanna hang out with. This is a really bad situation as if they were true gursikhs they would be overcome by so much humility that this would not be the case. I have lives in canada and am now in the uk and it is rife amount our community. We are writing the foundations for our own failure.

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Yes there are some such sikhs and they are wrong if they think they are better the everyone else, but there are also many judgemental moneh who look for negative things in amritdharis but can not see their own faults, there main arguments is we are are not amritdhari so its ok for us to do / be the way we are, my answer to this is why is it ?, you refuse to follow your Guru's basic teachings e.g. do not cut your hair, Drink alcohol, smoke etc but you point the finger at people who are trying to follow Guru ji but do have faults because no one is perfect except Waheguru / Guru ji (who are the one and the same). We should not look at other peoples faults but look at our own. There are many good amritdhari sikhs out there who do some excellent work like Bhai Jugraj Singh ji of basics of sikhi who do not think they are better than any one else and are trying to help the youth, look at the positive people and the negative in yourself. No offence intended but i too get fed up of judgemental moneh always criticizing amritdharis, why dont they take amrit and show everyone how it should be done, rather than look at the faults in amritdharis!

moneh are not sikh...that's the truth.....you follow first 9 gurus....or you follow only 10th guru....in both cases you have to keep hair ,have to live with natural body..have to cover up

your head with turban........but these monaas are sooooooooooo chaalluuuuuuuuu.................lol

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You get the same in both boats.

There are some monay, who feel that they are not restricted, so they can do what they want. At the same time they give impressions that the amritdharis are tied down and have to stick to their rehat -They look at this in a degrading manner.

On the other had, there are full pagh- dhari and amritdhari sikhs that may not pay too much attention to monas and tend to ignore them....but this is not the picture as a whole.

Some of these feelings do come quite naturally and we all have to try to not be prejudice.

I know , because i was a mona all my life for over 35 years and back then i would always see a singh as a singh. This means that i always gave my natural respect to a paghwala Singh, whether they had full dhari/trimmed, amritdhari or not...

However, now that I haven't cut my hair in a few years, i notice that whenever I am out and i see a Singh with a trimmed beard- I naturally think to myself '' he trims it !''.

Sometimes, i get a taxi and when i see a full sardar, i feel a natural sense of being more relaxed.

I know it's a little nauhghty, but i have to tell myself to be Equal and Fair.

These are natural weaknesses that we all have but we have to confront them and admit them to ourselves to be able to conquer them.

If someone out there claims that they are NOT inclined to some sort of prejudice, then they are only lying to themselves and making their own battle with the 5 chor even harder.

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Guest ego

No, a sikh is someone who remains/strives to remain pure within by applying the gyan of gurbani. People practiced Truth in the Satyug, Jesus practiced truth, outer dicipline was needed during Guru Jis time as there was a war and sikhs needed a focus and to remeber the importance of miri and piri in being warriors.

Internal dicipline is what is needed as indicated many times in gurbani. Nowadays many donning the 5 K's have let pride take over- ego is one of the 5 thieves and once the amritdhari falls into ego- their seva of truth is rendered useless.

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And what of the moneh who call themselves sikhs but do not even follow the basic rule do not cut your hair etc, you are looking at the negative and using the term many but i say you are wrong, there are many many good amritdharis and moneh out there,

unfortunately the bad in both seem to get the press, lets look at ourselves first, everyone has faults even in Guru jis time sikhs made mistakes yes there were many who were/are brahmgianis but to say an amritdharis is supposed to be perfect from the point of taking amrit is absurd, amrit is the starting point to becoming a khalsa, but many people believe that one has do be perfect in order to take amrit, if that were the case and that person is already perfect then why the need to take amrit ?

1/ Take amrit

2/ keep rehat (most important)

3/ Become Khalsa (perfect by Gurus grace)

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that sort of stuff seems modern to me.

Back in the day dont matter if you had a pagh or cut hair. If you lived outside Southalls Birminghams, you were a tiny minority of a slightly bigger ethnic minority of blacks and paks who equally could turn on you, if you didnt get it from the Working classes.

So when apneh saw each other other there was affinity.

As communities grew bigger Punjabis the Unity fractures, splinter into this that. We used to get pangeh all the time from chitteh kaleh gangs when we were like 15 16. Hit 17 go into Southall get hyped up apneh. Total opposite, eyes glaring at each other??

It dont matter who or what you are, community spirit is lacking. You can make excuses on rehat, this that other, the bottom line is things have changed, some of good some for bad.. If we had a Solid leadership in Gurdwara i reckon that could create a brill focal point on community building again.. People get peed off with tribalism groups, you look like this, i drive a merc you got a chitty chitty bang bang, im this jatha your that splintering.. 20 years ago you would not even be able to walk down certain areas and rds without getting a bar coming your way. When that happens you dont give a monkeys whos got a pagh or whos a mona. You were judged by actions of what you did and words you carried.

I know Some ace singhs and monai who held it down, all you guys probably do that bloke was probably your uncle. Ones a Singh his best mate was a mona. If you ever met Bhai Rama Singh they would encourage community things of togetherness. Youth of today on all sides have let their Forefathers down.

If we had to work our butts off 3 jobs in 1964 provide for a family, yourself, save a little to help open a gurdwara, no health n safety at work, crapped over by Managers, accepting racism as a reality to overcome our poverty, hoping the world will change, all the bs goes aside. Ancestors did noto face that to watch our communities divide off and yes you had monai and singhs then too.

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im seeing more sikhi now than i saw 20 years ago in terms of camps, parchars, workshops singhs with dammaleh and singhanis... We should be coming together from an era where folk did not always know, where athiesm was rising then too, Make the most of what you got.

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Exactly shaastar we need to stick together follow our Gurus teaching and try to become Gursikhs and the guys you talk about some of them were probably my uncles as i grew up in that era too and yes their was more unity and they were all friends, as i can recall the problem started when ambition and greed crept in nothing wrong with ambition as long as it is done through honest means and then pride came along when one person had a bigger car or house and then jealousy reared its ugly head and corruption in gurdwara committees came along which then caused a bigger divide and finally some who started to preach that moneh are bad and amritdharis are superior but in fact a lot of the amritdharis had previously also been moneh themselves and finally we come to where we are today. But that is what happened here in the uk but then what caused the divide in other countries ? seems we have gone a bit off topic here but that happens some time too lol.

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Exactly shaastar we need to stick together follow our Gurus teaching and try to become Gursikhs and the guys you talk about some of them were probably my uncles as i grew up in that era too and yes their was more unity and they were all friends, as i can recall the problem started when ambition and greed crept in nothing wrong with ambition as long as it is done through honest means and then pride came along when one person had a bigger car or house and then jealousy reared its ugly head and corruption in gurdwara committees came along which then caused a bigger divide and finally some who started to preach that moneh are bad and amritdharis are superior but in fact a lot of the amritdharis had previously also been moneh themselves and finally we come to where we are today. But that is what happened here in the uk but then what caused the divide in other countries ? seems we have gone a bit off topic here but that happens some time too lol.

gotto be same story abroad bro.. Though i must admit back in 1998 as I visited East Coast of US along NY NJ the sangats were tight wherever i went. It was like going back to Gurdwaras in the 1980s. I just loved the way SInghs and monai had a lot of piar out there then.

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K, this is something that I feel is blown out of proportion - I genuinely feel that a lot of moneh judge Amritdharis harshly or are paranoid that they're being looked down at. For example, I'm quite quiet and stick to myself, rather than being really outgoing and talkative, especially when it comes to strangers. So when I've gone to the Gurdwara, and moneh have been looking at me and I've not smiled at them and greeted them warmly, made conversation with them, etc, I'm sure that they've judged me, and consequently all Amritdharis, to be judgemental and snobby.

I have personal experience with this, before I came into Sikhi I had moneh friends who I've not been able to keep good relationships with, since they seem to have a belief that "Amritdharis look down on us" "Amritdharis think they know it all" "Amrtidharis are meant to be bringing people into Sikhi but instead they push people away"- despite the fact that I've not said anything to them. It's paranoia and it's uncalled for. I wonder what it'd be like if we openly judged moneh based on a couple of encounters in which we were not treated the way we wanted to be.

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K, this is something that I feel is blown out of proportion - I genuinely feel that a lot of moneh judge Amritdharis harshly or are paranoid that they're being looked down at. For example, I'm quite quiet and stick to myself, rather than being really outgoing and talkative, especially when it comes to strangers. So when I've gone to the Gurdwara, and moneh have been looking at me and I've not smiled at them and greeted them warmly, made conversation with them, etc, I'm sure that they've judged me, and consequently all Amritdharis, to be judgemental and snobby.

I have personal experience with this, before I came into Sikhi I had moneh friends who I've not been able to keep good relationships with, since they seem to have a belief that "Amritdharis look down on us" "Amritdharis think they know it all" "Amrtidharis are meant to be bringing people into Sikhi but instead they push people away"- despite the fact that I've not said anything to them. It's paranoia and it's uncalled for. I wonder what it'd be like if we openly judged moneh based on a couple of encounters in which we were not treated the way we wanted to be.

Yes i too have noticed this that when you smile at moneh some just stare like you have two heads (lol maybe its me), but your point about moneh saying amritdharis think they know it all and are supposed to bring people to sikhi.

1/ Well i guess if you tell a monah that they should grow kesh stop drinking etc and take amrit then you are ott and think you know it all !

2/ but if you say its ok what you are doing (but it is not) and just pray, then you are an ok singh and not a preacher and not ott like the others.

its a case of what they want to hear and its not necessarily the truth.

recently i took my kids to punjabi school and while they are in class i stay at the Gurdwara and do sangat, when i went to the langar hall there was a group of 5 moneh ages arond 20-30 standing talking and i over heard them talking about whisky, i mean who the hell comes to the Gurdwara and talks about whisky now if i had confronted them about this firstly they would have denied it which would have put me in an awkward position and secondly i would have been labeled ott and extremist and to be honest the committee or others of the Gurdwara may have sided with the majority. but they soon stopped for what ever reason.

Some moneh do have a lot of respect for sikhi and you can usually tell which ones by the way they behave for example

recently two young girls at the same Gurdwara were standing in the foyer and there heads were not fully covered and when there parents came out of the langar hall the father told them off and said it was disrespectful and that there heads should be covered.

Amritdharis who walk around with there noses in the air, personally i avoid eye contact with them.

Having been a monah and now Amritdhari i would say there are two types of monah and Amritdharis

Moneh :

1/ who has no or little respect for sikhi and just comes once in a while to the Gurdwara and questions everything you tell them about Gurbani and talks in sadh sangat, who would rather be with their mates etc.

2/ who come to the Gurdwara frequently does seva and simran but has not grown kesh and taken Amrit yet but does not do any kind of nasha drinking etc, for these people i have the utmost respect.

Amritdhari.

1/ Who thinks they are better than everyone else even other amritdharis and does not acknowledge a hello or a fateh properly and walks around as if they own the place.

2/ Who smiles at people speaks in a friendly manner shows respect to all, and does not engage in idle chit chat but encourages others to follow the Gurus teaching verbally and by example sits in sangat and listens with love. These are the Gursikhs whose sangat and dust of the feet i ask for :respect:

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Guest Truth seeker

I agree with the o/p it is extremely hard ,my personal experience of being kesdhari and wanting to get closer to sikhi.there is little brotherhood amongst Sikhs I am yet to meet a sikh brother who is open enough to treat me as a friend or brother.

I know why now our own 'Sikhs' are turning away from our guru because no one is demonstrating any pyaar .yes there are talks ,groups etc but ultimately after these events everyone goes there separate ways ,

I am finding it very hard to find sangat/ friends to help me in my journey into sikhi...

Any advice would be great

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moneh are not sikh...that's the truth.....you follow first 9 gurus....or you follow only 10th guru....in both cases you have to keep hair ,have to live with natural body..have to cover up

your head with turban........but these monaas are sooooooooooo chaalluuuuuuuuu.................lol

100% bandhar.

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Guest Truth

Just practice Truth of Gurbani, naam simran, realise that God is everywhere, everything, realise no image, no form, no colour- remember it always fearlessly regardless of what form God comes in to test u. If u really want this, dont worry about others, just practice Truth. There are amritdhari idiots and mona idiots, theyre both the same.

Real Truth seekers are of the same- whether amritdhari or not

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