Being Proud To Be Indian

[singh1986]

I don't know where even to start with the op.

How can Sikhs be proud of being "Indian" when India and its constitution doesn't even fully recognise Sikhism as a separate religion! If you want to be proud of India you give up your identity of being a Sikh... so what are you!?... a proud Indian or a Sikh?! I know what I'd rather be...

In addition, the continuous betrayal and subjugation such as the fact we had to literally spill blood to get Punjabi recognised as a state language and we want Punjabi's in turn to be thankful to India? The Slaughter of generations of Sikh youth with no support from the Indian State and its Judiciary. Things like specifically banning Sikhs from attending the 1982 Asian Games and imprisoning them should they be on a train to Delhi... imagine if the British Govt banned Sikhs from attending London during the Olympics, would we be thankful to Britain!? The Sikh Genocide in 84!? The murder/rape/torture of thousands of people in Punjab in the 80/90's... I mean the list is literally endless... I could go on and on and on...

This is over and beyond 1984 there have been a lot more things India has done and been responsible for that makes me cringe should any associates me with India. I don't hate India or the Indian people... but I feel betrayed and would never want to be associated with such a nation and its discriminatory polices against my religion and people from my ethnic/linguistic background.

Also I would like to point out that it is a common misconception that India is/was one united mass... before the British came the area was divided into nations and Kingdoms on linguistic, cultural and religious basis. You don't see all the Southern African nations uniting into one nation just because they were ruled by the British! For some reason people find it acceptable to be ruled by a government that doesn't speak your language, different culture, religion, food, norms and values as acceptable?! The Indian Government doesn't represent Punjabi's and certainly not Sikhs...

[Jonny101]

The way I see it is, the Indian Sub continent(India, Pakistan, Bangla, nepal, Sri Lanka) is not one country. Although it is part of Asia but it actually deserves to be considered a separate continent on it's own. It is more diverse, multi lingual, multi religious, multi ethnic than Europe which is considered a separate continent. The Indian sub continent has a great history, it is home to great Rishi Munis, Peers, Fakirs, Bhagats, Scholars, Kings, Warriors and of course the greatest of all the Gurus. So as a Desi I can feel proud of being part of the Indian Sub continent, but that does not mean I am proud of being part of the modern entity called the "Indian Union" which is a creation of the British. Sikhs need a nation state of their own, and this became even more evident after what happened in 1984. Without our own country we will continue to face genocides at the hands of others.

[BritishSingh]

I am proud to be a British Sikh. As a British Sikh I feel that I have more freedom to express my faith in Britain than in India. Also I have Panjabi heritage not Indian. My mother tongue is Panjabi not Hindi. My diet is mostly Panjabi food, so therefore I prefer to classify myself as a British Panjabi. Furthermore I feel an attachment to the whole of Panjab including West Panjab which is where Nankana Sahib and Lahore (previous centre of the Sikh Empire) both are.

[sat]

Sant Jarnail Singh ji Bhindrawale Mahapurkh said we are not vak vadis (separatists), but the day they the indian government attack Darbar Sahib the foundation for khalistan will be laid, and that is what happened as we all know,

So to my way of thinking we ceased to be indians or hindustanis from that day forth, not that we hate the ordinary man / hindu in the street or the land it self after all we are part of it and it is where our Gurus and ancestors came from.

but rather it is the ideology of modern india and what it stands for the corruption, one law for the rich and another for the poor and the treatment of minorities and the poor, 1984 and the treatment of sikhs in prisons etc, so if you are proud of these facts then call yourself an indian, but not i and not in my name.

Khalistan Zindabad !!

[username1]

Yes good post username1. We don't want to deny our pre Sikh history like the Pakistanis. Most of the Indus Valley civilisation is in Pakistan yet they barely mention it because it isn't Islamic. The reason why Pakistani punjabis dislike speaking in Punjabi is because it predates Islam's arrival in India.

At the end of the day Sikhi does have a lot of similarities with Hinduism. The whole idea of reincarnation, meditation and the aim of breaking the circle of life and death. However, I think over time Hinduism got away from the original message, it became exclusive to high caste people, the people began to worship holy men (like Krishna) instead of the one god etc. That is why I believe Guru Nanak was sent, to show people the right path again.

However it's a shame that there is still so much caste discrimination amongst Sikhs.

You also get a lot of Sikhs who are anti Hindi at all costs, yet so much of bani is in Hindi!

Thanks for the appreciation. As for punjabi some muslims claim they invented it (spoken not script- they used shahmukhi script), that people like Sheikh Farid were the first writers of it and the use of arabic and persian in punjabi is justification for why punjabi was their innovation before Sikh ripped off their language with their sufism and turned it against them.

I think we have to appreciate what happens when we deny the past, we can re-produce Afghanistan like environments. The dark ages took place in the west simply right after christianity had become successfully in destroying the past from the minds of people. Long forgotten where the names of plato, aristotle and Socrates. The renaissance thrived when their names, their works came back. While the dark ages took place, some of the middle east started to grow in economy through it's sciences from the works of such greek and other persian philosophers, the remnants of the once proud Zoroastrian nation.

It's not a secret, Pakistan is a mess and doesn't have it's house in order. The last thing we want is to become anything like them, while they are off chasing a imaginary dream of emulating the most perfect man (lol), to create the most perfect nation they are actually going backwards in terms of international standards. Places like Japan and Brazil are going forwards. South America is rediscovering it's aztec past and the western world is rediscovering it's Roman, Greek and Norse pasts.

India as it is seems to be the lands of which the Vedas were prevalent. It also compromises of the nations Aurangzeb conquered. It also seems to be mentioned in other ancient Hindu/Indian literature. Gurbani isn't exactly in Hindi, gurbani compromises of many languages which were all incorporated into the standards of forming gurmukhi punjabi. The Sikh gurus standardized punjabi aswell.

I don't think a true Sikh can be against one specific language but against losing their own. Part of the political struggles facing punjab is removing punjabi as a public arena language, demeaning punjabi to a backwards tongue while praising hindi as a sophisticated tongue (even though it came from a rural community aswell). The laymen of geographical regions however tend to seek one language and from the central government there is a pressure to eradicate local dialects in a bid to unify india under a more central culture. In Maharashtra, Maharatis are very proud of their language and I doubt they want to see Maharati replaced with hindi.

Here is a map of Aurangzeb's empire: (here are a series of maps which relate to various mughals their expansion and shrinkage of empires http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00maplinks/mughal/roolvinkset/roolvinkset.html )

Much before Aurangzeb is King Ashoka's empire from 250 BC Source (http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00maplinks/early/ashoka/ashoka.html

)

[Shaastar]

before 1984

or after, The punjabi language I speak ive inherited from My Grandparents who were born before partition. Their villages had Sikhs Hindus and Muslims (muslims are now in Pakistan)..

The Sikhs Hindus stayed behind. That style of Punjabi is not understood by our Hindu Veers from South or East of India. When we had relatives over the men sat in one room women in another. Its neither good or bad, yet different. The Style of Punjabiat my Forebears follow they say a word and stand by it till their blue in the face or dead. Some call it a generation thing, but i see the same in my uncles who are not even into Sikhi.

It does not mean i consider myself special or higher. We love and respect everyone. But that the Reeht Rivaaz rehni behni we have is different from other States. I do not feel i am better at anything or less. In fact I have relativees in Delhi Haryana Chandigarh Rishikesh and Dehra Doon, so its not like we are uneducated in how others live. There is affinity with certain folk. But i would say more farkh. It does not have to be negative.

Due to the imprint of Punjabi asool in my family, that influence stands out stronger than anything else even after 4 generations in UK> I would say Im Punjabi British. I have no disregard for India or its people, we lovingly embrace everyone. I would love to discover Tamil East Indian Assamese Maharashtran rajahstani Nepalese culture and history.. But that does not mean i am Nepalese or Assamese or gujrati.

Maybe its because most of our families came from Old School Punjab straight into aa WHite Mans land without Nationalist Feelings for India as a whole i dont knoww. But its enough to say some like Nationalism Inclusiveness others are happy as they are and it dont mean we have differences burning inside.

[Shaastar]

btw everyone sits in one room in my relatives now. Praaneh jumaneh di yaadh ohndi c

[Big_Tera]

I am talking about being proud of Indian culture, food, music. I am not talking about being proud of politicians and government atrocities. that is a completely separate issue and is plain obvious that no is going to be proud of that. Are you suggesting we should be more proud of being British?

Sikhs are very well represented in Indian culture. from music, sports, culture.India doesn't belong to anyone one .it belongs to everyone. Yes the government might be against Sikhs. but thats the government. which has nothing to do with the average people and culture ect.

When other people are so proud of where they come from ie mexico, spain, ect. why shouldn't we say we are proud to be an Indian. it doesn't make us any less Sikh.This is our land and I love going to India and visiting our homeland. Ive traveled to many countries but nothing compares to India and my home City of Amritsar.

Being proud to call ourselves Indian doesn't mean we are agreeing with politicians. I think another reason why people don't want to associate with being Indian is because they think its not cool as they usually show the bad sides of India in the media.Even though other cultures of India might not be as good as punjabi culture ie music, food, sports ect. we should still embrace it as that is the diversity of India. Indian cuisine is the number 1 in the world. many people would love to be classified as Indians and are envious of our culture. We should not take for granted where we come from. Instead of overly westernized Sikhs who think they are British, we can be British indian and Sikh at the same time. lets not shy away from being India. because of the way the media portrays Indians as some Skinny dark skinned rickshaw driver. India is full of many different people.

Being Indian doesn't belong to Hindus. Sikhs can be proud to be Indian to. as you get older you start to realise this. instead of the youth who go over the top with being Punjabi.

[username1]

I am talking about being proud of Indian culture, food, music. I am not talking about being proud of politicians and government atrocities. that is a completely separate issue and is plain obvious that no is going to be proud of that. Are you suggesting we should be more proud of being British?

We are Indian and we cant let anyone take away our national identity. Sikhs are very well represented in Indian culture. from music, sports, culture.India doesn't belong to anyone one .it belongs to everyone. Yes the government might be against Sikhs. but thats the government. which has nothing to do with the average people and culture ect.

If it's just food, music and maybe other items of culture like dress and art. Then it won't last long since all of those can be described as art forms, they evolve and change with time and place. Being a part of the diaspora we won't inherit these directly. Maybe that is a good thing- being America-Sikh, British-Sikh or Canadian-Sikh (Western Sikh) is our own identity to form when it comes to those matters. It seems we can lead the fashion in paagh with armani suit fashion if we want to some Indian-Sikhs (nationality wise- Sikhs do live in places in India other than Punjab, some in Maharashtra, South India and Delhi). I don't mind south Indian dishes when it comes to idli-dosa but for me nothing beats the good old italian pizza. The global village culture allows us the express ourselves as we please, as for music most of the bhangra industry is lead in the UK, most produces for it are all in west midlands, vocalists usually fly over to record sometimes and do fly over to punjab to record videos sometimes in studio over there or here or else where. If it's art long gone are the days of Indian art form everyone is getting into computer graphics - art forms like those being taken up by Inkquisitive. So we don't have to follow on to Indian culture we get to define our own culture.

When it comes to people saying drinking alcohol is punjabi culture, it's untrue and in fact people are forming it as our culture, which surely is a nice way to destroy our kaum.

Afghan Sikhs do also claim to have ethnic backgrounds besides Indian and some would identify their own hence as Afghan but religion is Sikh. I've heard some afghan Sikhs are Kurds (the people saddam tried to kill in Iraq) from Kurdistan.

.

[Shaastar]

I am talking about being proud of Indian culture, food, music. I am not talking about being proud of politicians and government atrocities. that is a completely separate issue and is plain obvious that no is going to be proud of that. Are you suggesting we should be more proud of being British?

Indian states have different cultures. South Indians dislike North Indians imposing Hindi in conversations. Seen freshy bust ups in internet cafes over it lol.

I enjoy Rajhastani, Veg West Bengal Cuisine, but find South Indian mirch masseleh like volcanoe, gujrati food tiny portions not enough for horse! But if you sit a Panjabi family in a gujrati restaurant how are we meant to know whats what?

Indians and Pakistanis do not market Restaurants very well when they label it "Indian". Its not separatist to say which State the food comes from. If they did both Indians and Outsiders appreciate the different cultures of India better. I now am liking Rajhastani culture, dance, twirled moucha, big turbans and castles..The distinctive traits stand out. It does not mean all of india is like that..So then what is culture?

How can we be proud of soft romanticised Hindi Music ending with fantasies 7000 miles away? Practical people listen to practical music fit for the time and place.

What makes Indian culture? if its tolerance celebration love for diversity then you will find most of us are up for it. But Hindi is not the language of a Punjabi or Bengali. It is not more civilised it just does not sound as blunt.. Hindi Media films are based in Mumbais ELite community. What do they have to do with the average joe hanaa?

when Indians kept their ancient side, anyone would love it. When theres soo much change upheavel colonisation, moving into the modern age,though the shift has been great for empowering women, yet its sad to see Indians loose their heritage. If there was a Rani Jhansi today every Diaspora person would celebrate her.