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A Very Bitter Truth That Needs To Be Expressed


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Great analysis!!!! Make perfect sense to me, and now I understand where many Hindus are coming from.

UKL = Excellent and very deep points made by Mehtab Singh Paji. But I think we shouldn't look at Hindu's from the lens that Mehtab Singh Ji is suggesting. We need to look at every so-called Hindu as a future Sikh and try by all means to delcassify them as Hindu and include them within the Sikh Panth. That way we weaken our bureaucratic opponents political base whilst strengthening our own. As the RSS philosophy has cleverly been to define as many people as possible (including Sikhs) as Hindu's whilst defining who is a Sikh to as small a section of the population as possible. And we've been neaive enough to fall for it. So we need to turn the tables and look at every avenue of turning so-called Hindu's into members of the Sikh Panth (regardless of if they keep kes or not). Once more people feel welcome in the Sikh Panth the more Amritdhari GurSikhs we will see in due course.

Username 1 = I want to convince them about Baba Guru Nanak dev ji. I think trying to attain khalistan will make it difficult to spread Sikhi among people. If langar-degh was spread all over hindustan there would be no one sleeping hungry in India

UKL = If we do more seva and parchaar and Langar provision ... then all of present day India ... can become Khalistan by virtue of being a majority Sikh state.

A very bitter truth indeed, this is also the history of ancestors of Sikhs as majority of Sikhs are from Punjab, India . Our ancestors related to and believed these stories. In paragraph 9 you state 'educated Hindus' question these stories and from your writing you give them props, but how do you feel about missionaries who Hindus would consider educated Sikhs who do not believe 'stories' about our history, Shaheed Baba Deep Singh Ji, 1699 Vaisakhi etc. Don't belittle other dharms itihass. Also there is no shortage of gaddars in Sikh history.

UKL = Gurds Singh Paji ... we don't need to believe in or respect something just because our ancestors did. I don't believe in any miracles relating to Sikhi because I believe our Guru Sahiban wholeheartedly rejected miracles. When tens of millions of people were slaughtered in Genocides in the last century there was no miracle to save them, so it's pretty fanciful for us to believe in virgin births, monkey gods or Arab slavetraders splitting the moon. Ask yourself this who is worthy of more respect ... a torso that fights with decapitated head ... or a Mahapursh Shaheed that despite a grevious neck wound the was losing blood fought to the very end so long as they could utter "Bole So Nihal - Sat Sri Akaal". As for 1699, if the blood on Guru Sahib's was those of the rotten masands does that make the bravery of our Panj Pyaaray any less? I humbly suggest to you that it doesn't. There are no gaddars that we look up to as religious figures as Sikhs.

pakistani khstriyeh v mildeh ah..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Khatris

UKL = Shaastar Paji the Muslim Khatri's (such as the Chinioti Shaikhs) de facto control much of Pakistani Punjab's industry

When Hindus say it was immoral for Satwant Singh and Beant Singh for breaking their duty of being a bodyguard and assassinating the Dushtni Indira Gandhi, then they are also condemning Arjun(and Krishna) for breaking the rules of war(and Kshatrya tradition) by assassinating Bhishma, Dronachya, Karan while they were unarmed.

UKL = As usual, you're absolutely right Jonny Paji. All of the population of present day India should respect Shaheed Bhai Beant Singh and Shaheed Bhai Satwant Singh as Desh Bhagats of the highest order. Our Shaheeds sacrificed their lives for the raksha of innocent civilans. Sadly Congress still managed to implement much of their Genocidal plans upon our Qaum.

I am not sure how you say this. Rishi Ved Vyas father was Rishi Prashar, who was a Brahmin, and mother Satyvati who was the daughter of a Fisherman. If you classify the caste by father's caste, then Rishi Ved Vyas was a Brahmin Rishi.

Important point though - None of these Rishis were HINDUS, all these Rishis highly respectful, were Brahmn Gyanis, and had devotion to 1 GOD, as even shown in serials, such as OM Naam Simran, and not Poojan of Devi-Devtas, a concept in which a new Devi-Devta is invented daily, sych as Maa Kheer Bhawani, Devi Halwa Poori, Maa Chintapoorni, Maa SukhDataDevi etc.

UK = Khalsa Ji you're absolutely that Valmiki was a Brahmin (who is used as a ploy by our Panth's enemies to stop wider knowledge spreading in India of who exactly Bhai Jiwan Singh Ji was) and Vyas is always accepted as a Brahmin ... though similar to the Valmiki ploy ... has recently been coined off as non-Brahmin by clever Hindutva forces who recognise him as Brahmin amongst their own ... but utilise the fisherman connection to appeal to Dalits that they are "Hindu" (when in fact all Dalits are natural born Sikhs if only they knew).

It's not strange at all bhaji.

Now, go one step further. Ask the same 1% minority Sikh jat, " 'ere mate, you're a jatt Sikh , so what d' you know about jatt muslims ".

UKL = Great point as always Jashb Paji ... and I think we as Sikhs constantly need to ram home the message to members of our Panth that 80% of Jatts are proud Muslims and Hindu's such as the 1st Prime Minister of Pakistan and marauding 1947 mobs that killed 20% of our Qaum in Pakistan and others like Sajjan Kumar and the Delhi Police Jatts who played such an active role in killing Sikhs in 1984. That's why apartheid biraderi mentality within the Panth cannot be tolerated from any sections that participate in it and united saanjhe Gurdware in London, the Diaspora and especially Punjab are an absolute must if we hope for our Panth to ever progress.

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I am not writing this to hurt anyone's feelings or offend anyone religious sentiments, but only to emphasize the fact that the history of a community reflects its character, personality, thought proce

People who hate Sant Baba Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa Bhindranwale call him "Bhindranwale". I see this every day in Hindu media. Also, I found it very insulting to compare Santji with Ravan, it will be in

Whats all this "big boys" nonsense?? One of my associates served with the British Army Parachuters In 1982 Falklands. They now do seva in Gurdwaras rubbing shoulders with regular sangat.. British War

It's not strange at all bhaji.

Ask a 1% minority Sikh jat, " 'ere mate, you're a jatt , so what d' you know about jaats ".

He'll most probably look at you like; "You wot? How am I supposed to know!"

In fact, only Sikhs living in Haryana itself would ever have come across Hindu jaats in real life, or most probably even know that such exotic concoctions exist. Take my father's example; he recalls meeting a Hindu with the same gotra while at university in Chandigarh and being absolutely gobsmacked that a person of his own clan could be a Hindu!!!

In Panjaab, there are next to no Hindus of this clan whatsoever, but a large proportion of Malwa jats belong to this clan, especially in dist. Patiala. Yet across the state border, in Haryana, there are plenty of Hindu jaats from this clan. Even met a few (visa overstayers) in London.

Now, go one step further. Ask the same 1% minority Sikh jat, " 'ere mate, you're a jatt Sikh , so what d' you know about jatt muslims ".

Varying reactions here. Especially if the said Sikh jat was brought up listening to silly songs like "putt jattan de". Ranging from shock, disbelief, sorrow right up to accusations of blasphemy!

Again, only Sikhs who would have come from Pakistan would know that there is such a thing as a muslim jatt. Again, take my father's example; he met a Pakistani muslim "virk" in London. He asked him how long his family had been muslims because it's obvious the only jatts left in pakistan would have been those Sikhs left high and dry during partition who converted at the point of the sword in 1947! But Pakistani virk was like "as far back as anyone in the family knows". Same goes for cheema, chatha, even sandhu and gill.

Whereas Panjaabi Sikh virk here in London was like "no such thing as jatts in pakistan mate; the only Panjaabis there are the ones that converted by force in 1947!!!" (err... no.)

If you'd have told me ten years back that there's a film maker in pakistan with my father's gotra I dunno what I would have said!

Truth is, we, just like pakistani panjaabis, live in our own bubble, that's why we 1% minority Sikh jats don't know that jatts of other regions and religions exist, so it's no surprise that Shaikhs don't know their proverbial "Khawaja"s from their "Khashatri"s .

yeh jatland.com i saw a few grewal, johal virk surprised me too.

it was surreal,we are used to seeing Jatts doing bhangreh stomping the floors twirling the ol mouch. On that site they were polite soft like little gaggaputz.

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I think we shouldn't look at Hindu's from the lens that Mehtab Singh Ji is suggesting. We need to look at every so-called Hindu as a future Sikh and try by all means to delcassify them as Hindu and include them within the Sikh Panth.

Very humane feeling I should say veerji, but what I had posted was for those power hungry dirt bags who are ruling India. The common Indian irrespective of whatever religion he/she professes is (a.) a victim of poverty thanks to corruption done by the government, (b.) a victim of false information thanks to the biased media (news, TV), (c.) a victim of concocted propaganda coming from various communal political parties.

Bottom line, every ordinary common Indian is an all-round victim of suppression and oppression. What is the solution? Only and only Khalsa Raj which will come by eliminating all these aaqis and then khuaar hue sab milenge.

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What I had posted was for those power hungry dirt bags who are ruling India. The common Indian irrespective of whatever religion he/she professes is (a.) a victim of poverty thanks to corruption done by the government, (b.) a victim of false information thanks to the biased media (news, TV), (c.) a victim of concocted propaganda coming from various communal political parties.

Bottom line, every ordinary common Indian is an all-round victim of suppression and oppression. What is the solution? Only and only Khalsa Raj which will come by eliminating all these aaqis and then khuaar hue sab milenge.

UKL = You're absolutely correct in what you say above Paji. The thing we need to bear in mind is that 30 years ago there were 500 million more so-called Hindu's than Sikhs. Now there are 1,000 million more so-called Hindu's than there are Sikhs. As people have been whole scale conned into believing that their identity is so-called Hindu. So we need to be very specific about who our enemies are = Central Government, Dehli bureaucrats, RSS etc. We simply cannot label our opponents "Hindu" (100 crore people) or even Brahmin (5 crores) as you know better than most that every time we blanket label our opponents as Hindu or Brahmin we alienate lakhs of people who are spiritually ripe for entry into the Sikh Panth. For example, I know of a few Amritdhari Gursikhs from a similar background to your own and we need to encourage more good people like yourself by educating more sehajdhari's that they are not Hindu. So if 10 lakh Punjabi Brahmins attend Gurdware we need to correctly classify them as Sikhs in Punjab (albeit sehajdhari) in order to remove the innocent so-called Hindu's from the political base of our RSS-influenced opponents. Also loaded terms like "Kes Kattal" do us no favours in gaining greater population strength for the Sikh Panth and I say that from the perspective of an ex-sehajdhari.

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But cutting hair is indeed katal of kes, isn't it? Bhai Gurbaksh Singh Khalsa ji has also been emphasizing on the same continuously.

Absolutely Paji but we have to work out how best to appeal to, engage with and utilise the the sehajdhari 95% majority for Panthic upliftment. The fact that all these sehajdhari singers supported Bhai Sahib needs to be utilised by engaging with the said artists and for starters the said artists agreeing not to promote alcohol, not to promote caste, not to promote activities in direct contradiction of Gurmat rather than trying to expect too much too soon from them. Ask yourself this, how many percent of Punjabi Brahmins do you realistically think will come to Sikhi if we insist upon kes for them as a pre-cursor to joining the Panth? Let's grow the Panth's overall demographic strength first and work in a united direction first and we will automatically get to a greater number of Amritdhari GurSikhs consequentially.

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Thief in Arabic is "<banned word filter activated>" or "lissoo". Also, thief in Persian is "dozd".

However...

Found this:

http://savebuddhist.blogspot.com/2008/03/what-is-meaning-of-word-hindu.html?m=1

What is meaning of Word "Hindu"?

"The word 'hindu' is a non-Indian word, it's origin is Persian/Arabic. It's original meaning is 'dog,' 'low life' or 'slave'."

"The word 'Hindu' is not found in any Hindu religious text or any other ancient writing. People who lived on the western side of Hindu Kush (killers of Hindus) mountains gave this name to the natives of India. The word Hindu means black, slave, robber, thief and a waylayer."

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And this...

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Hindu

Hindu, the word

Apparently, the word "Hindu" is not present in Vedas, Puranas, Ramayana and Mahabharta. It appears that this name was given to the indigenous people of India by the Muslim invaders. They referred to the people living near the Sindhu River, as Hindus and they consider them as slaves subservient and blind. The name given to the religion which preceded the modern term "Hindu" was "Sanatan" religion and before that it was known as "Ad-Dharm". Hindu is not a Sanskrit term.

Furthermore, a Persian dictionary titled Lughet-e-Kishwari, published in Lucknow in 1964, gives the meaning of the word Hindu as chor [thief] dakoo [dacoit], raahzan [waylayer], and ghulam [slave]. In another dictionary, Urdu-Feroze-ul-Laghat (Part One, p. 615) the Persian meaning of the word Hindu is further described as barda (obedient servant) sia faam (black color) and kaalaa (black).

So these are all derogatory expressions for the translation of the term hindu in the Persian label of the people of India.

Other observations

It is said that, Moreover, it is correct that this name [Hindu] has been given to the original Aryan race of the region by Muslim invaders to humiliate them. In Persian, says our author, the word means slave, and according to Islam, all those who did not embrace Islam were termed as slaves. (Maharishi Shri Dayanand Saraswati Aur Unka Kaam, edited by Lala Lajpat Rai, published in Lahore, 1898, in the Introduction)

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Yeah thats exactly what the Pandit dude is saying in the video I posted.

I noticed the painting of Dayanand in the back, that's why I was keen to find an arya samaji viewpoint. The word's foreign origin and negative meaning has been discussed on RSS forums too.

What I find awesome is the title of the book where the quote in post #39 is taken from:

Maharishi Shri Dayanand Saraswati Aur Unka Kaam , edited by Lala Lajpat Rai, published in Lahore, 1898

That is; "Maharishi Shri Dayanand Saraswati Aur Unka Kaam".

Kaam. As in lust.

Seems to be part if his legend. He must have done a lot of kaam :lol2:

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, no man here kaam means "work", not lust. But funny thing is, why would Indians have one word to mean "work" and "lust"? Is lust their work? Perhaps that explains their over-population! Time to find a new word for "work", lets suggest them to use "kaaraj" instead.

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, no man here kaam means "work", not lust.

Yeah, I knew what they meant too. But hey, that don't mean it's still not funny as hell!!!

But funny thing is, why would Indians have one word to mean "work" and "lust"? Is lust their work? Perhaps that explains their over-population! Time to find a new word for "work", lets suggest them to use "kaaraj" instead.

I agree dude, they need to take this issue seriously. I mean like, it's kinda embarrassing! You might have to explain this to children and everything

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