Why Don't We Have A Gurdwara With Dasam Granth Sahibji Parkash In Ontario?

[panthicunity]

Which quote is it ranjodh singh jee .. (you can use the serach function to find it)...... I study SGGS on a daily basis havent come across any !

Also I haven't found bani to be contradictory or 'hierarchical' as you might put it.

Jhonny ...

Abondoning your pregnant wife is hardly respectworthy .

[RanaBhaaratVaasi]

Yea your right and i acknowledge that and tht was my point this whole time

[Jonny101]

Jhonny ...

Abondoning your pregnant wife is hardly respectworthy .

The Avtars are respect worthy in the sense that they fought against tyrants of the time. Why disrespect them? The Avtars were not perfect, although they are spiritually elevated from humans, but like Humans they also made mistakes. Even Gurbani states Bhulan Andar Sabh ko, Abhul Guru Kartar. Everyone including the great Paigambars(prophets) and Avtars are Bhulanhar. Only Guru Jee and Vahaguru are infallible. That is why only Vaheguru is worthy of worship.

[RanaBhaaratVaasi]

Right now i cant spend too much time but its been mentioned here before in this site.

Right now i cant spend too much time but its been mentioned here before in this site.

[panthicunity]

ram fought for his wife

krishna's vile & foul means in battle of mahabharat are well know

killing kansa - I will take guru nanak's "Kans ched kya bada bhaya " over your personal opinion. Similarly "ravan mar kya bada bhaya" - make SGGS basis of your opinions and they will sound lot more palatable ....

Also will you respect someone who demeans women by stealing their clothes ?

Talking of fighting tyrants - how about bhai satwant singh , beant singh, sukha jinda ... who did it without having any personal beefs

[RanaBhaaratVaasi]

Ok, to be honest. Your opinion is of absolutely no value to me.

O my Father, Lord of wealth, blessed are You, long-haired, dark-skinned, my darling. ||1||Pause||

ਕਰ ਧਰੇ ਚਕ੍ਰ ਬੈਕੁੰਠ ਤੇ ਆਏ ਗਜ ਹਸਤੀ ਕੇ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਉਧਾਰੀਅਲੇ ॥
You hold the steel chakra in Your hand; You came down from Heaven, and saved the life of the elephant.

ਦੁਹਸਾਸਨ ਕੀ ਸਭਾ ਦ੍ਰੋਪਤੀ ਅੰਬਰ ਲੇਤ ਉਬਾਰੀਅਲੇ ॥੧॥
In the court of Duhsaasan, You saved the honor of Dropati, when her clothes were being removed. ||1||

ਗੋਤਮ ਨਾਰਿ ਅਹਲਿਆ ਤਾਰੀ ਪਾਵਨ ਕੇਤਕ ਤਾਰੀਅਲੇ ॥
You saved Ahliyaa, the wife of Gautam; how many have You purified and carried across?

ਐਸਾ ਅਧਮੁ ਅਜਾਤਿ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਤਉ ਸਰਨਾਗਤਿ ਆਈਅਲੇ ॥੨॥੨॥
Such a lowly outcaste as Naam Dayv has come seeking Your Sanctuary. ||2||2||
(SGGS : 988)

ਨਿਰਾਹਾਰੀ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥
He is beyond need of any sustenance, free of hate and all-pervading.

ਧਾਰਿ ਖੇਲੁ ਚਤੁਰਭੁਜੁ ਕਹਾਇਆ ॥
He has staged His play; He is called the four-armed Lord.

ਸਾਵਲ ਸੁੰਦਰ ਰੂਪ ਬਣਾਵਹਿ ਬੇਣੁ ਸੁਨਤ ਸਭ ਮੋਹੈਗਾ ॥੯॥
He assumed the beautiful form of the blue-skinned Krishna; hearing His flute, all are fascinated and enticed. ||9||

ਬਨਮਾਲਾ ਬਿਭੂਖਨ ਕਮਲ ਨੈਨ ॥
He is adorned with garlands of flowers, with lotus eyes.

ਸੁੰਦਰ ਕੁੰਡਲ ਮੁਕਟ ਬੈਨ ॥
His ear-rings, crown and flute are so beautiful.

ਸੰਖ ਚਕ੍ਰ ਗਦਾ ਹੈ ਧਾਰੀ ਮਹਾ ਸਾਰਥੀ ਸਤਸੰਗਾ ॥੧੦॥
He carries the conch, the chakra and the war club; He is the Great Charioteer, who stays with His Saints. ||10||

ਪੀਤ ਪੀਤੰਬਰ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣ ਧਣੀ ॥
The Lord of yellow robes, the Master of the three worlds.

ਜਗੰਨਾਥੁ ਗੋਪਾਲੁ ਮੁਖਿ ਭਣੀ ॥
The Lord of the Universe, the Lord of the world; with my mouth, I chant His Name.

ਸਾਰਿੰਗਧਰ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਬੀਠੁਲਾ ਮੈ ਗਣਤ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਸਰਬੰਗਾ ॥੧੧॥
The Archer who draws the bow, the Beloved Lord God; I cannot count all His limbs. ||11||
( SGGS : 1082)

ਸੰਖ ਚਕ੍ਰ ਮਾਲਾ ਤਿਲਕੁ ਬਿਰਾਜਿਤ ਦੇਖਿ ਪ੍ਰਤਾਪੁ ਜਮੁ ਡਰਿਓ ॥
He is adorned with the conch, the chakra, the mala and the ceremonial tilak mark on his forehead; gazing upon his radiant glory, the Messenger of Death is scared away.

(SGGS : 1105)

GGSJi has this BLATANT praise of Krishan. Its time you stopped trying to say the devi devtay and avtars are not respect worthy. If the Gurus thought that they would not have included this in GGSji. Stop trying to be the Guru. Keep your egoistic logical mind to yourself and accept the Gurus Bani. They have said it, now accept it. Dont try to bring your own theories in it and be like "oh no but the Gurus said KRishan is NOTHING but ANTS, so forget everythign else, Im just going to selectively listen to the Gurus Bani and disrespect the devi devtay and avtaars as if i hold the same authority as Guru Sahib". And Im not saying pray to the devi devta or avtaars. Im saying respect them. I dont think matha teking to the Devi devtay is bad either but I dont think it will give you mukhti. However, just like how I would chukaa my sees at the place where Mahabali Baba Deep Singh JI's head fell, I would bow my head to the place where Devi devta have come. Their not god, they are his/her soldiers.

[Jonny101]

ram fought for his wife

krishna's vile & foul means in battle of mahabharat are well know

killing kansa - I will take guru nanak's "Kans ched kya bada bhaya " over your personal opinion. Similarly "ravan mar kya bada bhaya" - make SGGS basis of your opinions and they will sound lot more palatable ....

Also will you respect someone who demeans women by stealing their clothes ?

Talking of fighting tyrants - how about bhai satwant singh , beant singh, sukha jinda ... who did it without having any personal beefs

Panthic Unity Jee, Guru Granth Sahib Jee is the bases of my belief. But Dasam Bani is also Gurbani. Guru Jee in both Granths tells the people that the Avtars are not to be worshiped. They were sent for a specific task. The Avtars were fallible like humans and made mistakes. Guru Jee makes it clear that it was always Vaheguru who killed Kans, Ravan, and Harnaksh and not the Avtars who are given credit for these deeds.

If Sikhs need to do Parchar to others, disrespecting their beliefs is not the right approach. The greatness of Sikhi is self evident. One does not need to indulge in putting down or using derogatory language for other religions in order to show greatness of Sikhi.

[Jonny101]

Ok, to be honest. Your opinion is of absolutely no value to me.

O my Father, Lord of wealth, blessed are You, long-haired, dark-skinned, my darling. ||1||Pause||

ਕਰ ਧਰੇ ਚਕ੍ਰ ਬੈਕੁੰਠ ਤੇ ਆਏ ਗਜ ਹਸਤੀ ਕੇ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਉਧਾਰੀਅਲੇ ॥

You hold the steel chakra in Your hand; You came down from Heaven, and saved the life of the elephant.

ਦੁਹਸਾਸਨ ਕੀ ਸਭਾ ਦ੍ਰੋਪਤੀ ਅੰਬਰ ਲੇਤ ਉਬਾਰੀਅਲੇ ॥੧॥

In the court of Duhsaasan, You saved the honor of Dropati, when her clothes were being removed. ||1||

ਗੋਤਮ ਨਾਰਿ ਅਹਲਿਆ ਤਾਰੀ ਪਾਵਨ ਕੇਤਕ ਤਾਰੀਅਲੇ ॥

You saved Ahliyaa, the wife of Gautam; how many have You purified and carried across?

ਐਸਾ ਅਧਮੁ ਅਜਾਤਿ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਤਉ ਸਰਨਾਗਤਿ ਆਈਅਲੇ ॥੨॥੨॥

Such a lowly outcaste as Naam Dayv has come seeking Your Sanctuary. ||2||2||

(SGGS : 988)

ਨਿਰਾਹਾਰੀ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥

He is beyond need of any sustenance, free of hate and all-pervading.

ਧਾਰਿ ਖੇਲੁ ਚਤੁਰਭੁਜੁ ਕਹਾਇਆ ॥

He has staged His play; He is called the four-armed Lord.

ਸਾਵਲ ਸੁੰਦਰ ਰੂਪ ਬਣਾਵਹਿ ਬੇਣੁ ਸੁਨਤ ਸਭ ਮੋਹੈਗਾ ॥੯॥

He assumed the beautiful form of the blue-skinned Krishna; hearing His flute, all are fascinated and enticed. ||9||

ਬਨਮਾਲਾ ਬਿਭੂਖਨ ਕਮਲ ਨੈਨ ॥

He is adorned with garlands of flowers, with lotus eyes.

ਸੁੰਦਰ ਕੁੰਡਲ ਮੁਕਟ ਬੈਨ ॥

His ear-rings, crown and flute are so beautiful.

ਸੰਖ ਚਕ੍ਰ ਗਦਾ ਹੈ ਧਾਰੀ ਮਹਾ ਸਾਰਥੀ ਸਤਸੰਗਾ ॥੧੦॥

He carries the conch, the chakra and the war club; He is the Great Charioteer, who stays with His Saints. ||10||

ਪੀਤ ਪੀਤੰਬਰ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣ ਧਣੀ ॥

The Lord of yellow robes, the Master of the three worlds.

ਜਗੰਨਾਥੁ ਗੋਪਾਲੁ ਮੁਖਿ ਭਣੀ ॥

The Lord of the Universe, the Lord of the world; with my mouth, I chant His Name.

ਸਾਰਿੰਗਧਰ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਬੀਠੁਲਾ ਮੈ ਗਣਤ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਸਰਬੰਗਾ ॥੧੧॥

The Archer who draws the bow, the Beloved Lord God; I cannot count all His limbs. ||11||

( SGGS : 1082)

ਸੰਖ ਚਕ੍ਰ ਮਾਲਾ ਤਿਲਕੁ ਬਿਰਾਜਿਤ ਦੇਖਿ ਪ੍ਰਤਾਪੁ ਜਮੁ ਡਰਿਓ ॥

He is adorned with the conch, the chakra, the mala and the ceremonial tilak mark on his forehead; gazing upon his radiant glory, the Messenger of Death is scared away.

(SGGS : 1105)

GGSJi has this BLATANT praise of Krishan. Its time you stopped trying to say the devi devtay and avtars are not respect worthy. If the Gurus thought that they would not have included this in GGSji. Stop trying to be the Guru. Keep your egoistic logical mind to yourself and accept the Gurus Bani. They have said it, now accept it. Dont try to bring your own theories in it and be like "oh no but the Gurus said KRishan is NOTHING but ANTS, so forget everythign else, Im just going to selectively listen to the Gurus Bani and disrespect the devi devtay and avtaars as if i hold the same authority as Guru Sahib". And Im not saying pray to the devi devta or avtaars. Im saying respect them. I dont think matha teking to the Devi devtay is bad either but I dont think it will give you mukhti. However, just like how I would chukaa my sees at the place where Mahabali Baba Deep Singh JI's head fell, I would bow my head to the place where Devi devta have come. Their not god, they are his/her soldiers.

Superficially it may appear this way. But one needs to read this in the same light as the Japji Sahib Tukh:

Gur Ishar, Gur Gorakh Brahma, Gur Parbati Mai

Now a non Sikh would look at this tukh and think it is praising Is Ishar, Gorakh, Brama and Parvati but furthur study of this means "mere lei mera Guru hi Ishar Gorakh Brahma te Parbati Mai hai

Similarly the tukhs you presented which you think are praising Krishan is actually praising Vaheguru. ਸਾਵਲ ਸੁੰਦਰ ਰੂਪ ਬਣਾਵਹਿ which means Oh Vaheguru you create many beautiful dark skinned Krishnas. Then Guru Jee goes on to praise Vaheguru's beauty since Vahaguru is Sarb Viapak(ਸਮਾਇਆ) i.e. present in all His creation. So it is Vaheguru's presence in his creation(Krishan) that he is praising as the real source of Krishan's attractive beauty not Krishan himself as most Indians attribute Krishan's beauty to Krishan.

[JasSinghKhalsa]

RanaJodh Singh Jee,

The way you are saying, there is another Shabad -

"Panchali ko Raaj sabha mein, Raam Naam Sudh aayi". But Panchli ko raam naam sudh taan nahin aayi, Mahabharata serial (made by B.R. Chopra) shows she chanted name of Krishna!. So, we have a contradiction here - SGGS Jee says, she chanted/remebered Raam-Naam, but Mahabharata serial says, she remembered Krishna.

I would definately go with my GURU as this is Dhur Ki Baani - Guru Nanak Ki Baani - which means, this Raam-Naam is different - neither it is Sri Raam Chandra Jee nor it is Sri Krishna Jee.

As per your write-ups, wherever it comes Narayana/Gobind/Raam in SGGS Jee - either it is Sri Krishna or Sri Raam Chandra Jee.

Well, let's look at some baani of Bhagat's born before Sri Raam Chandra Jee -

Bhagat Prahlad Jee

================

ਹਰਿ ਜ੝ਗ੝ ਜ੝ਗ੝ ਭਗਤ ਉਪਾਇਆ ਪੈਜ ਰਖਦਾ ਆਇਆ ਰਾਮ ਰਾਜੇ ॥
In each and every age, He creates His devotees and preserves their honor, Lord King.

ਹਰਣਾਖਸ੝ ਦ੝ਸਟ੝ ਹਰਿ ਮਾਰਿਆ ਪ੝ਰਹਲਾਦ੝ ਤਰਾਇਆ ॥
The Lord killed the wicked Harnaakhash, and saved Prahlaad.

"The above Baani from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee says, In every Yuga, he creates his bhagats, "Paij rakhda aaya Raam Raaje", does this "Raam Raaje mean Raja Raam Chandra Jee"? How can Raja raam Chandra Jee take care of Prahalada, when Prahlada was born thousands of years before Sri Raam Chandra Jee?

One more important thing, If Akal Purakh sent Sri Raam Chandra Jee as 14-Kalan Avataar, Sri Krishna Jee as 16-Kalaan Avatar, they are not specific to HINDU'S, as they never created any thing such as HINDUISM. They are earlier Akal Puraak Avataars, with specific and limited capabilities, and not Sarab-Kala-Samrath.

As to the Dasam Granth and your quotes where you say it praises Devte, here you go. -

Patshahi Dasvin Chaupayi

=====================

Mahadev Ko Kehat Sada Siv, Nirankar Ka Chinat Neh Bhiv

"People say Shiva as the Maha-Dev, but don't know the secret of the formless god."

This particular Line(s) and meaning at 02:29, but start listening from start.

Patshahi Dasvin Swavye

====================

Soor Soorardan Sudh Sudhayek, Sant Smooh anek mati ke -

Bed Puran, Kateb Kuran, Jamin Jaman sabaan ke pekhe.

Brahma Mahesar Bisan Sachipat, Ant phase jam phas parenge,

Je Nar Sri Pat Ke pras hain, pag te nar pher naan deh dharange.

"The above Baani says Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh will end up in the cycle of death/birth, whereas a true GurSikh attached to 1 Nirankar will leave the cycle of birth.death!.

Kahun le pahan pooj dhareo, sir kahun le ling gare latkayo,

kahun likhiyo har awachi disa mein, kahun pacha ko sees nivayo.

kou butaan ko poojat hai, pasu kou mritan ko poojan dhaayo,

koor kireya urjheyo sab hi jag, sri bhagwaan ko bhed naan paayo.

See Video below for all meanings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWUrwFPiQDi

Dasam Granth baani prakash, please do it, but it does not praises DEVTE , nor does SGGS Jee.

[RanaBhaaratVaasi]

I already know Chaupai Sahib bro and it says mahadev is called sadashiv and thats why i refer to god as Sadashiv/Bhagauti.

Mahadev is called shiv by accident*