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Why Don't We Have A Gurdwara With Dasam Granth Sahibji Parkash In Ontario?


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neo singh ji I could care less what xyz bhindrawlae says - we have our own rational minds to analyze kartoots of these , did you not read Guru Nanak's "ravan maar kya bada bhaya" and "kans ched kya bada bhaya".

Gurbani talks about avtars, acknowledge and respects them where gurbani is talking about sarguna avtar aspect of akaal... its about leaving all preconceived ideas, insecurity, hyper parnioa aside and learn gurmat with open mind, if one does not want to contexualize gurbani and if one fails to see gurmat from various aspects/stages within gurmat (bhagti-sargun,shabad, shakti, gyan-nirgun) at some point when they read gurbani to search for total gurmat or gurmat in its totality - one faces with lot of issues of reconciliation , theological , ontological issues when it comes to analysing understanding and realizing deep layers of gurmat.

Old traditional gurmat provides seeker (given if seeker is receptive) frame work to realize gurmat in its totality from three main aspects of akaal in stages-

1. Sargun where akaal moraat immanet its attributes into avtars (six types) and highest beyond all avtars- Our Sarbat kala samarath Satguru Nanak along with shakti(bhaugti) invoke devotion in the mind of seeker to do bhagti nine types-seva, kirtan, seva of sri guru granth sahib ji, sri dasam guru granth sahib with shaki via chandi divar abhyas/shastar vidya/knowledge (to propagate, uphold and defend khalsa dharma), then same avtar and in our case- poran tam avtar- Satguru Nanak draws seeker within to explore shabad naam within seeker where seeker perceives 2nd/aspect stage shabad aspect of akaal.

2. Shabad- Same Satguru nanak dev ji himself pushes sikh away from first sarguna aspect perceptions of himself, then himself draw his sikh to go inside within himself and explore naam-shabad within via shabad surat/dhyan or other meditation techinques.

3. Nirgun-Advait One Non Dual reality -. Then finally same Satguru nanak dev ji draw his sikh towards its own estoric gyan layer of naam- one universal consciouness- sri dasam patsah updesh - o khalsa worship only one universal awakened light day and night - eventually/ultimately reveal jot saroop in form of self realization and at that stage* where there is no perception of any avtars its pure oneness parbhram- pure consciousness. At this stage, one actually does not in conceptual terms one worship intellectually but worship- one jot all prevading - all in one, one in all - Zeeman zaaman kai bhikaie samast ek jot hai na ghat na bhat hai na ghat bat hot hai ||

Many Gurbani tuks in sri dasam granth sahib which talks about avtars were destroyed by kaal (aad shakti of mahakaal) there to show ultimate reality how sargun is always changing not permanent not real world is illusion and false and these demi God's are not end all or be all.. Recognize yourself man tu jot saroop hai apna Mool paichain.... It's meant to raise bars of seeker - uplift seeker to ultimate stage of non duality where updesh is given and these avtars were like worms infront of akaal they couldn't find the end of akaal which is truth but in order to reconcile gurbani tukhs properly so there are no contradictions one has to look at from gyan perspective 3- Advait one non dual reality-gyan aspect and they should be taken as cautionary sermon/updesh to raise bar of seeker from sargun into nirgun.

Similiarly as mentioned in bachitar natak- sri guru gobind singh ji provides similiar cautionary message to sikhs who confine sri guru gobind singh ji still in sargun to rise above from sarguna and wake up smell the coffee of One non dual absolute reality of Gurmat.

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There is a difference about status of avtars per Hindu and sikh teachings.

Hindus consider their avtars as supreme God or absolute divine authorities.

Sikhism consider these avtars as creation of akal purakh and it is akal purakh

that created and controlled them.But missionary mindset with shallow background

fails to understand that.Since their name appear in sikh scriptures especially

in detail in Dasam Granth sahib they interpret them per Hindu view. They do so

as none of them have read the granths and neither they have any practical

life of naam abhias as they call it AS PARROTING.

Guru sahib on these avtars

ਤੇ ਹਮ ਤਮਕਿ ਤਨਕ ਮੋ ਖਾਪੇ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਕੀ ਠਉਰ ਦੇਵਤਾ ਥਾਪੇ ॥
ते हम तमकि तनक मो खापे ॥ तिन की ठउर देवता थापे ॥
I destroyed them in no time and created gods in their place.

ਤੇ ਭੀ ਬਲਿ ਪੂਜਾ ਉਰਝਾਏ ॥ ਆਪਨ ਹੀ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰ ਕਹਾਏ ॥੭॥
ते भी बलि पूजा उरझाए ॥ आपन ही परमेसुर कहाए ॥७॥
They were also absorbed in the worship of power and called themselves Ominipotednt.7.

ਮਹਾਦੇਵ ਅਚੁੱਤ ਕਹਾਯੋ ॥ ਬਿਸਨ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਕੋ ਠਹਿਰਾਯੋ ॥
महादेव अचु्त कहायो ॥ बिसन आप ही को ठहिरायो ॥
Mahadeo (Shiva) was called Achyuta (blotless), Vishnu considered himself the Supreme.

ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਆਪ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਬਖਾਨਾ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਜਾਨਾ ॥੮॥
ब्रहमा आप पारब्रहम बखाना ॥ प्रभ को प्रभू न किनहूं जाना ॥८॥
Brahma called himself Para Brahman, none could comprehend the Lord.8

Bachtira natak , Dasam Granth sahib

ਜੋ ਚਉਬੀਸ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਕਹਾਏ ॥

जो चउबीस अवतार कहाए ॥
Those who are called twenty-four incarnations;

ਤਿਨ ਭੀ ਤੁਮ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤਨਿਕ ਨ ਪਾਏ ॥
तिन भी तुम प्रभ तनिक न पाए ॥
O Lord ! they even could not realise thee in a small measure;

ਸਭ ਹੀ ਜਗ ਭਰਮੇ ਭਵ ਰਾਯੰ ॥
सभ ही जग भरमे भव रायं ॥
They became kings of the world and got deluded;

ਤਾ ਤੇ ਨਾਮ ਬਿਅੰਤ ਕਹਾਯੰ ॥੭॥
ता ते नाम बिअंत कहायं ॥७॥
Therefore they were called by innumerable names.7.

Chaubis Avtar, Dasam Granth sahib

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panthic unity writes

contrast this with life of Gautam budha which is way more inspiring then these imaginary rama/krishna/ durga maata

I am a little bit confused now. We have dealt with Hindu devtas in previous post.

Panthic unity ji, Budha doctorine does not believe in existence of an omnipotent creator.

In simple words per them there is no God. Do you have similar beliefs?

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Far from being a non-believer in God, the Buddha acknowledged “one common essence” (1) which he, with his deeply-penetrating spiritual insight, was able to see and know. As far as I can see, this “one common essence” was God, as he implies in this further statement:


“If we examine the origin of anything in all the universe, we find that it is but a manifestation of some primal essence. Even the tiny leaves of herbs, knots of threads, everything, if we examine them carefully we find that there is some essence in its originality. Even open space is not nothingness. How can it be then that the wonderful, pure, tranquil and enlightened Mind, which is the source of all conceptions of manifested phenomena, should have no essence of itself?” (2)


In my view, the phrases “one common essence” and “primal essence” suggest knowledge of God.


To the best of my knowledge, the Buddha used Vipassana meditation to look ever more deeply into the structure of his own mind, and, when he reached the point where no wave (or vritti) arose in it, he saw his own “essence” or “nature.” Having seen it, he could declare:


“The Essential Intuitive Mind [possesses] its own mysterious Enlightening Nature, and … the attainment to this Essential Intuitive Mind unveils this mysterious Enlightening Nature.” (3)


I take this “mysterious enlightening nature” again to be God.


According to him, were there no God, “primal essence” or “mysterious enlightening nature,” there could be no possible escape from the self with its threefold suffering of sickness, old age, and death. He describes that “essence” with negatives.


“Monks, there is a not-born, a not-become, a not-made, a not-compounded. Monks, if that unborn, not-become, not-made, not-compounded were not, there would be apparent no escape from this, here, that is born, become, made, compounded.” (4)




"Harkh sog jake nahin, bairi meet samaan" - bipasna takes us towards this avastha where we are indifferent to dukh and sukh .



Another one is "Sa sidh sa karamat hai achint kare jis daat" - again bipasna helps us to get to this thoughtless state.



What do Ramyana ,mahabharat ,raasleela etc have to offer -besides tales of sleaze, trechery and deceit .


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GPS, Neo & Randip

next time some perverted douche steals your sister's clothes so she has to come out naked - for the world to see, instead of thrashing him bow to this godly 'avtaar'

I will no longer post on this thread and heed maharaj's "moorakhai naal na lujhiye" !

Your above post shows either you do not have ability to comprehend things when put in proper perspective

or you are sent here with pre programmed mindset to create mischief.

You just circumvented my probing>My question is

1 Does SGGS sahib talk about these avtars or not? Reply to it.

Then who are you to misinterpret it? You have been shown with quotes that these avtars were sent for a

purpose but they failed in that.So do not interpret them with Hindu glasses.

Bhudha was a non believer in a higher power. But you seem to be bewitched by him.You are free to follow him.

Why waste your time here.

So you believe in Guru Granth sahib also.Then why do you disbelieve in the below

हुकमि उपाए दस अउतारा ॥
Hukam upā▫e ḏas a▫uṯārā.
By His Hukam, He created ten incarnations,
देव दानव अगणत अपारा ॥
Ḏev ḏānav agṇaṯ apārā.
and the uncounted and infinite gods and devils.
SGGS ji
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What do Ramyana ,mahabharat ,raasleela etc have to offer -besides tales of sleaze, trechery and deceit .

As sikhs we do not read Ramyana, mahabharat etc. The names of these demi Gods are mentioned throughout

Guru Granth sahib.We learn about their acts from our granths.For example in Dasam Granth sahib Guru sahib

created a character Kharag singh who in battlefield throws Krishna by catching him from his hair on the gorund.

He addresses to krishna "I can kill you now.But will let you go as my job is to fight against injustice.If i kill you now

whom i will fight."

ਖੋਜਤ ਹੈ ਜਿਹ ਸਿੱਧ ਮਹਾਮੁਨ ਬਿਆਸ ਪਰਾਸੁਰ ਭੇਦ ਨ ਚੀਨੋ ॥ ਸੋ ਖੜਗੇਸ਼ ਅਯੋਧਨ ਮੈ ਕਰ ਮੋ ਹਿਤ ਕੇਸਨ ਤੇ ਗਹਿ ਲੀਨੋ ॥੧੫੩੧॥

खोजत है जिह सि्ध महामुन बिआस परासुर भेद न चीनो ॥ सो खड़गेश अयोधन मै कर मो हित केसन ते गहि लीनो ॥१५३१॥

He, whom the adepts search in their contemplation and whose mystery is not comprehended by the great sages like Vyas and Prashar, Kharag Singh caught him in the battlefield by his hair.1531.

ਸਵੈਯਾ ॥

सवैया ॥

SWAYYA

ਮਾਰ ਬਕੀ ਬਕ ਅਉਰ ਅਘਾਸੁਰ ਧੇਨਕ ਕੋ ਪਲ ਮੈ ਬਧ ਕੀਨੋ ॥ ਕੇਸੀ ਬਛਾਸੁਰ ਮੁਸਟ ਚੰਡੂਰ ਕੀਏ ਚਕ ਚੂਰ ਸੁਨਯੋ ਪੁਰ ਤੀਨੋ ॥

मार बकी बक अउर अघासुर धेनक को पल मै बध कीनो ॥ केसी बछासुर मुसट चंडूर कीए चक चूर सुनयो पुर तीनो ॥

He, who killed Putana, Bakasura, Aghasura and Dhenkasura in an instant; he, who became famous in all the three worlds by killing Keshi, Mahishasur, Mushiti, Chandur etc.;

ਸ੍ਰੀ ਹਰਿ ਸ਼ੱਤ੍ਰ ਅਨੇਕ ਹਨੇ ਤਿਹ ਕਉਨ ਗਨੇ ਕਬਿ ਸਯਾਮ ਪ੍ਰਬੀਨੋ ॥ ਕੰਸ ਕਉ ਕੇਸਨ ਤੇ ਗਹਿ ਕੇਸਵ ਭੂਪ ਮਨੋ ਬਦਲੋ ਵਹ ਲੀਨੋ ॥੧੫੩੨॥

स्री हरि श्त्र अनेक हने तिह कउन गने कबि सयाम प्रबीनो ॥ कंस कउ केसन ते गहि केसव भूप मनो बदलो वह लीनो ॥१५३२॥

That Krishna, who had knocked down many enemies with skill and killed Kansa by catching him from his hair; the name Krishna has been caught by his hair by the king Kharag Singh; it seems that he has avenged the killing of Kansa by catching his hair.1532

ਸਵੈਯਾ ॥

सवैया ॥

SWAYYA

ਚਿੰਤ ਕਰੀ ਚਿਤ ਮੈ ਭੂਪਤ ਜੋ ਦਿਹ ਕਉ ਅਬ ਹਉ ਬਧ ਕੈ ਹਉ ॥ ਸੈਨ ਸਭੈ ਭਜ ਹੈ ਜਬ ਹੀ ਤਬ ਕਾ ਸੰਗ ਜਾਇ ਕੈ ਜੁੱਧੁ ਮਚੈ ਹਉ ॥

चिंत करी चित मै भूपत जो दिह कउ अब हउ बध कै हउ ॥ सैन सभै भज है जब ही तब का संग जाइ कै जु्धु मचै हउ ॥

The king then thought that if he killed Krishna, all his army would run away; with whom then he would fight?

,ਹਉ ਕਿਹ ਪੈ ਕਰਿਹੋ ਬਹੁ ਘਾਇਨ ਕਾ ਕੇ ਹਉ ਘਾਇ ਸਨਮੁਖ ਖੈ ਹਉ ॥ਛਾਡ ਦਯੋ ਕਹਿਓ ਜਾਹੁ ਚਲੋ ਹਰਿ ਤੋ ਸਮ ਸੂਰ ਕਹੂੰ ਨਹੀ ਪੈ ਹਉ ॥੧੫੩੩॥

हउ किह पै करिहो बहु घाइन का के हउ घाइ सनमुख खै हउ ॥छाड दयो कहिओ जाहु चलो हरि तो सम सूर कहूं नही पै हउ ॥१५३३॥

To whom then he would inflict a wound or from whom he be wounded himself? Therefore, the king set Krishna free and said," Go away, there is no other warrior like you."1533.

Krishna avtar, sri dasam Granth sahib

So grow up and read such narratives before promoting a nastik ideology of missionaries.

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Veer GPS JI ....10 avtaars are avtars of bishnu and not akaal purakh (as per hindu mythology which is referred to multiple times in SGGS but not shown reverence ) -

Janam Maran Te Rahat Naraayan || Ang 1136

The entire shabad can be found here

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&g=1&h=1&r=1&t=1&p=0&k=0&fb=0&Param=1136

- also note the very strong language guru Arjan patshah used against Parmatma ever incarnating including the famous ਸੋ ਮੁਖੁ ਜਲਉ ਜਿਤੁ ਕਹਹਿ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਜੋਨੀ

So you believe in Guru Granth sahib also

Guru Granth sahib is jal (water) and I am meen (fish ) .... nothing more beautiful in the universe than maharaj !!

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That is what our scriptures write that they are avtars of vishnu.That is what is being brought to your attentione

that there is a stark difference between sikh and Hindu interpretation of these avtars.

In Hindu scriptures avtar means God coming to earth.

Sikh scriptures say that they were Creation of God and hence their characteristics are changed.

This all was written quoted here but you do not read that.

Since they are referred many times in SGGS what makes you to write that they were never there and it is imagination only.

Have one stand.And also read Dasam Granth sahib where there are details about them.Hatred towards it is not going to help.

If you can read budha you can read bani of Dasam pita also.That will tell you reality of these avtars.

God is not bound by any limits. It is ignorance to limit his actions.He can manifest anywhere anytime.

Where is your Lord, who will save you?
In an instant, the Lord appeared in a dreadful form, and shattered the pillar.
Harnaakhash was torn apart by His claws, and Prahlaad was saved. ||4||
SGGS ji
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