Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
RanaBhaaratVaasi

Why Don't We Have A Gurdwara With Dasam Granth Sahibji Parkash In Ontario?

Recommended Posts

I understand that the devi devtay were made the sadashiv but i still believe the gurus give respect to them because then they wouldnt say god acted through them. There is a quote that is explicitly praising krishan bhagwan and you cant be loke : "oh no forget that quote and place it under these quotes that seem to dis the devi devte" because your telling me to place a hierarchy on gurbani. You cant say one quote is more importat than the other. So if you think those quotes are in a hierarchy then your one basically saying there is a paradox in gurbani that is self contradictory. There is something that must explain the paradox of why one guru praises krishan and one seems to dis him. The only person on this site that has resolved this paradox without placing a hierarchy on gurbani lines and without saying gurbani is contradictory is neosingh. Im tired of people trying to say one ang is more valuable than anoter.

You are being selective of which shabad you want to read. I am very aware of the so called shabads that praise krishna. It is your lack of understand that you think Krishna is being praised in Gurbani. Have you read the Shabad that actually say many worms like Krishna have been created in Sri Dasam Granth? http://www.sridasam.org/dasam?Action=Page&p=54&english=t&id=65002

Taking this into consideration. Is Akal Purakh a worm? Does your understanding make sense? Additionally, in Aad Granth Krishna actions are said to be egotistical. Is Vaheguru egotistical? http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=1376

Tomorrow people of your mindset will start seeing Narsingh as you see Krishna today. But not Sikhs that listen to their Guru. Dasam Granth states very clearly Narsingh was sucked into Kaal. http://www.sridasam.org/dasam?Action=Page&p=106&english=t&id=67183

Read the above shabad from the beginning and read what was the fate of Krishna.

ਜਿਤੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਹੈਂ ॥ ਸਭੈ ਅੰਤਿ ਜੈ ਹੈਂ ॥੭੦॥

ਜਿਤੇ ਦੇਵ ਹੋਸੀ ॥ ਸਭੈ ਅੰਤ ਜਾਸੀ ॥

Then read the last line of the shabad. Guru ji tells those who took Vaheguru's refuge were/are only saved. Which means Krishna did not take Vaheguru's refuge.

ਜਿਤੇ ਸਰਨਿ ਜੈਹੈਂ ॥ਤਿਤਿਓ ਰਾਖ ਲੈਹੈਂ ॥੭੫॥

http://www.sridasam.org/dasam?Action=Page&p=105

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I already know Chaupai Sahib bro and it says mahadev is called sadashiv and thats why i refer to god as Sadashiv/Bhagauti.

Mahadev is called shiv by accident*

Do you read the complete Tuk -

Mahadev ko kehat Sadashiv,

Nirankar Ka chinat nein bhiv.

Nirankar da chin matar (means "rati bhar"), means does not has even 0.00001% knowledge of Akal Purakh Nirankaar :), himself searching to get Naam Daan from some Pooran GurSikh.

Swavye Sahib

============

Brahma Mahesar Bisan Sachipat, Ant phase jam phas parenge,

Je Nar Sri Pat Ke pras hain, pag te nar pher naan deh dharange.

"The above Baani says Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh will end up in the cycle of death/birth, whereas a true GurSikh attached to 1 Nirankar will leave the cycle of birth.death!.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont have a problem with praying to sadashiv but i still believe the tuks give respect to these beings who are his servants. Its not easy becoming his servant. They did it an they may have messed up but their still respect worthy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyways can we go back to the main topic here. Who here is willing to work towards this pavitar goal of establishing a Gurukar with DGSJi? We can probably find nihangs who would give their time to the gurukar. I have high hopes. I think it can happen if we try.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just quickly dropping by, few things out of the way, this is based on my research-
1. Gurmat does not worship any avtars but only akaal purkh. We don't confine akaal purkh to different avtars (including prevalent six of them) as from advait gurmat and also advait vedanta esteroric gyan layer everything is OM, Ik0ngkar one universal consciousness..so if everything is one in bhramgyan and non transcendental meditation (sun samadhi)... nothing is perceived higher or lower as only oneness (ikongkar) all in one, one in all is perceived at the ultimate bhramgyan stage.
2. Gurmat acknowledge and respect not worship (confine akaal purkh to only avtars) but acknowledge and respect metaphysics of avtar. Akaal purkh while being ajooni akaal moorat imanents its attributes to sarguna (nit, avnit, puran hari avtars etc) to uphold, spread dharma and uproot tryanny, in this case sri krishan maharaj who was bhramgyani gurmukh as he was sixteen kala avtar with all the qualities see attachment below and gurbani .
Overall make no mistake they don't come from satan but appear from akaal purkh and disappear in akaal purkh himself according to need and time, yes they goof up but thats also according to akaal purkh hakum as there is no such thing as free will, its all his tamasha..Some are given higher powers and some are lower powers (kala) to propagate dharam. Our guru sahib were highest of all as they were poran tam avtar- poran parkash roop limited kaala, sarab kala samarath - satguru nanak dev ji.
Metaphysics of avtar is mentioned in both puratan text and gurmat text:
"Yada Yada Hi Dharmasya
Glanirva Bhavathi Bharatha,
Abhyuthanam Adharmaysya
Tadatmanam Srijami Aham'.
Praritranaya Sadhunam
Vinashaya Cha Dushkritam
Dharamasansthapnaya
Sambhavami Yuge-Yuge." Bhagvad gita
Bhagvad gita (Also see sant gyani gurbachan singh khalsa bhindranwale japji sahib steek page 34 where yada yada quote is quoted answering a question why krishan maharaj and sarab kala samarth satguru nanak dev ji had to come) http://www.gurmatveechar.com/literature?browse=Steeks_and_Teekas/Sant_Kartar_Singh_%28Bhindrawale%29
Sri Dasam Guru Granth sahib Maharaj:
Jab Jab Hoth Aristh Apara Tab Tab Deh Dharat Avtara.
Here are pages from japji sahib teeka by sant gyani gurbachan singh bhindranwale talking about very definition of avtar and six types of sargun avtars immanentes from akaal purkh/maha vishnu according to akaal purkh hakum and needs.. See attachment by sant gyani gurbachan singh khalsa bhindranwale while maintaining satguru nanak dev nirankar were higher than all of these avtars, and limitless powers.... Krishan ji were sixteen kala avtar, has all sixteen characteristics first being bhramgyan/gyan rest follows.
post-24251-0-14458000-1390014408_thumb.p
post-24251-0-82967600-1390014428_thumb.p
3. Six types of avtars body above are made out shud satogun (maya), while our guru sahiban is pure parkash roop. Kaal in sri dasam guru granth sahib is shakti of akaal purkh, so ultimately all avtars were subjected to kaal as they were in terms of body (made out of shud satogun) just like everybody else ( panj tatwas will be destroyed- shalok nauvan) - guru maharaj set the record straight to rise people surti's/awareness* from sargun(mithiya maya) into nirgun-advait(realization of self) as people during that time were stuck in excessive sargun upasana and wrap their head around sargun avtars- made that into road block themselves in their spirituality.
However, this is no where to be seen as doubt to their avastha whereas it was vahiguroo all along in various different forms thats his khel". Yes previous avtars underestimated nirankar but this was akaal purkh maya khel himself (nothing is outside of hakum) and this to further his play at the end they were all merged back in nirankar...indeed they were sargun avtars of akaal purkh (small, medium, big according to need in yugas) where else they would merge to? ... we don't beleive in separate entity satan like christians do.
*Above- raising awareness also indicitates why sri guru gobind singh maharaj gave such strong cautionary tarna to us followers so we don't confine him into only sargun aspect as sri guru gobind singh ji saroop is not only sargun, all prevading pure consciouness/awareness.
jae ham ko paramaesar ouchar hai | thae sabh narak kundd mehi par hai |
Those who call me God, will fall into the pit of hell.
Not to mention repetitively mention of worship of one non dual all prevading nirgun jot in gurbani in aad guru granth sahib ji and sri dasam granth sahib ji via shabad and shabad gyan.
Gurbani both aad guru granth sahib, sri dasam guru granth sahib and ethashik granths like soraj parkash granth also talks about updesh to khalsa to realize his own self- akaal purkh nirgun roop, rise above from excessive sarguna upasana of any avtars for that matter (nit-sants, avnit-narsingh, karak, hari, karak, pooran, guru) and realize at the back of head that final updesh is for khalsa to only worships akaal purkh in form of shabad and its gyan- contemplatation of all prevading self-atma-paratma-advait ek jot akaal purkh and all these above avtars are all inside of us- our real param jot self ~ Sat chit anand svaroop ~
4. Ultimately khands in japji sahib are state of mind of being, according to gurbani and sant gyani gurbachan singh bhindranwale katha- sargun ram and krishna are also in karam khand (bakshish grace khand) equilavent to turiya avastha, these are not physical realms but they appear and disappear and appear disappear in one consciouness as one progresses in spirituality so they are not confined to christian version of khands as some sikhs like to beleive. Only recently reformist sikh influenced by christian abhramic ideology start confining khands into physical realm.
Real saroop of krishan ji is all gyan saroop all prevading lord saroop.
5. Ultimately from advait gurmat sidhant in akaal ustati and rest of gurbani its all one..krishnas and raam, from advait gurmat sidhant (ultimate stage) jot of krishan and raam and jot of ant or worm is one and same but until one does not reach that stage of non transcendental turiya tith avastha acknowledgement and respect should be given to all avtars as we would do to Sants... As we are still in our egoic mind, dualism as we are still in spiritual sikhi journey.
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just quickly dropping by, few things out of the way, this is based on my research-
1. Gurmat does not worship any avtars but only akaal purkh. We don't confine akaal purkh to different avtars (including prevalent six of them) as from advait gurmat
Our guru sahib were highest of all as they were poran tam avtar- poran parkash roop limited kaala, sarab kala samarath - satguru nanak dev ji.

In the first sentence you say Gurmat does not worship any avtars, but then call Guru Sahib pooran tam avtar. So you don't worship the Guru's? Let's see what Gurbani says about who Guru Sahib is.

http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=153

The above shabad tells us Guru Sahib and Vaheguru are the same.

Next Shabads speaks for Gurmat and tells us to worship Guru Sahib.

http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=152

http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=153

in this case sri krishan maharaj who was bhramgyani gurmukh as he was sixteen kala avtar with all the qualities see attachment below and gurbani .

Overall make no mistake they don't come from satan but appear from akaal purkh and disappear in akaal purkh himself according to need and time, yes they goof up but thats also according to akaal purkh hakum as there is no such thing as free will,

Kaal in sri dasam guru granth sahib is shakti of akaal purkh, so ultimately all avtars were subjected to kaal as they were in terms of body (made out of shud satogun) just like everybody else

However, this is no where to be seen as doubt to their avastha whereas it was vahiguroo all along in various different forms thats his khel". Yes previous avtars underestimated nirankar but this was akaal purkh maya khel himself (nothing is outside of hakum) and this to further his play at the end they were all merged back in nirankar...indeed they were sargun avtars of akaal purkh (small, medium, big according to need in yugas) where else they would merge to? ... we don't beleive in separate entity satan like christians do.

This Shabad in Dasam Bani clearly says the devi and devta did not realize Vaheguru.

ਜੇ ਜੇ ਭਏ ਪਹਿਲ ਅਵਤਾਰਾ ॥ ਆਪੁ ਆਪੁ ਤਿਨ ਜਾਪੁ ਉਚਾਰਾ ॥

ਪ੍ਰਭ ਦੋਖੀ ਕੋਈ ਨ ਬਿਦਾਰਾ ॥ ਧਰਮ ਕਰਨ ਕੋ ਰਾਹੁ ਨ ਡਾਰਾ ॥੪੪॥

ਜੇ ਜੇ ਗਉਸ ਅੰਬੀਆ ਭਏ ॥ ਮੈ ਮੈ ਕਰਤ ਜਗਤ ਤੇ ਗਏ ॥

ਮਹਾਪੁਰਖ ਕਾਹੂੰ ਨ ਪਛਾਨਾ ॥ ਕਰਮ ਧਰਮ ਕੋ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਜਾਨਾ ॥੪੫॥

http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=20118

In the bold Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji says Devi and Devta did not realize/merge with Vaheguru. Only you call Krishna a brahmgyani and say they merged with Vaheguru. Gurbani says Brahmgyanis realize Vaheguru. And in Vaheguru's hukam Krishna did not realize Vaheguru as Dasam Bani says.

The Gurus are never subject to Kaal, they are same as Vaheguru. But the devi devta were as they did not realize Vaheguru.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In the first sentence you say Gurmat does not worship any avtars, but then call Guru Sahib pooran tam avtar. So you don't worship the Guru's? Let's see what Gurbani says about who Guru Sahib is.
The above shabad tells us Guru Sahib and Vaheguru are the same.
Next Shabads speaks for Gurmat and tells us to worship Guru Sahib.
Guru is beyond six avtars as mentioned. Poran tam avtar its beyond six avtars, read japji sahib teeka by sant gyani gurbachan singh bhindranwale its very detailed its shows guru sahib were higher and limitless compare to six avtars while maintaing metaphysics of avtars, acknowledgement and respect to six types of avtars.

This Shabad in Dasam Bani clearly says the devi and devta did not realize Vaheguru.
ਜੇ ਜੇ ਭਏ ਪਹਿਲ ਅਵਤਾਰਾ ॥ ਆਪੁ ਆਪੁ ਤਿਨ ਜਾਪੁ ਉਚਾਰਾ ॥
ਪ੍ਰਭ ਦੋਖੀ ਕੋਈ ਨ ਬਿਦਾਰਾ ॥ ਧਰਮ ਕਰਨ ਕੋ ਰਾਹੁ ਨ ਡਾਰਾ ॥੪੪॥
ਜੇ ਜੇ ਗਉਸ ਅੰਬੀਆ ਭਏ ॥ ਮੈ ਮੈ ਕਰਤ ਜਗਤ ਤੇ ਗਏ ॥
ਮਹਾਪੁਰਖ ਕਾਹੂੰ ਨ ਪਛਾਨਾ ॥ ਕਰਮ ਧਰਮ ਕੋ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਜਾਨਾ ॥੪੫॥
In the bold Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji says Devi and Devta did not realize/merge with Vaheguru. Only you call Krishna a brahmgyani and say they merged with Vaheguru. Gurbani says Brahmgyanis realize Vaheguru. And in Vaheguru's hukam Krishna did not realize Vaheguru as Dasam Bani says.
The Gurus are never subject to Kaal, they are same as Vaheguru. But the devi devta were as they did not realize Vaheguru.
1. As i already mentioned Guru's were beyond six avtars and our guru's- their body was made out of turiya(pure light) so they were not subjected to kaal (kaal of mahakaal) but other avtars including sant nit avtars were as their bodies were made out of 5 elements like everyone else, they all had to release the body and their body is reduced to dust by kaal-aad shakti of akaal purkh.
2. Gurbani bolded were talking about mahapurkh not avtar of vahiguroo. Gurbani talks about avtar of vahiguroo in each age to propagate and uphold dharama
Jab Jab Hoth Aristh Apara Tab Tab Deh Dharat Avtara. (Sri Dasam Granth)
Jug Jug Satgur Dhare Avtari (Bhai Gurdas Ji)
Sathajug Thai Maaniou Shhaliou Bal Baavan Bhaaeiou ||
In the Golden Age of Sat Yuga, You were pleased to deceive Baal the king, in the form of a dwarf.
thraethai thai maaniou raam raghuvans kehaaeiou ||
In the Silver Age of Traytaa Yuga, You were called Raam of the Raghu dynasty.
dhuaapur kirasan muraar kans kirathaarathh keeou ||
In the Brass Age of Dwaapur Yuga, You were Krishna; You killed Mur the demon and saved Kans.
ougrasain ko raaj abhai bhagatheh jan dheeou ||
You blessed Ugrasain with a kingdom, and You blessed Your humble devotees with fearlessness.
kalijug pramaan naanak gur angadh amar kehaaeiou ||
In the Iron Age, the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, You are known and accepted as Guru Nanak, Guru Angad and Guru Amar Das.
sree guroo raaj abichal attal aadh purakh furamaaeiou ||7||
The sovereign rule of the Great Guru is unchanging and permanent, according the Command of the Primal Lord God. ||7||
3. Krishna was not only bhramgyani nit sant avtar but avtar of vahiguroo as per gurbani. There are many examples in gurbani. Here talking about liberation:
ਚਰਨ ਬਧਿਕ ਜਨ ਤੇਊ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਭਏ ॥
चरन बधिक जन तेऊ मुकति भए ॥
Cẖaran baḏẖik jan ṯe▫ū mukaṯ bẖa▫e.
The hunter who shot Krishna in the foot - even he was liberated.
ਹਉ ਬਲਿ ਬਲਿ ਜਿਨ ਰਾਮ ਕਹੇ ॥੧॥
हउ बलि बलि जिन राम कहे ॥१॥
Ha▫o bal bal jin rām kahe. ||1||
I am a sacrifice, a sacrifice to those who chant the Lord's Name. ||1||
ਨਿਰਾਹਾਰੀ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥
निराहारी निरवैरु समाइआ ॥
He is beyond need of any sustenance, free of hate and all-pervading.
ਧਾਰਿ ਖੇਲੁ ਚਤੁਰਭੁਜੁ ਕਹਾਇਆ ॥
धारि खेलु चतुरभुजु कहाइआ ॥
He has staged His play; He is called the four-armed Lord.
ਸਾਵਲ ਸੁੰਦਰ ਰੂਪ ਬਣਾਵਹਿ ਬੇਣੁ ਸੁਨਤ ਸਭ ਮੋਹੈਗਾ ॥੯॥
सावल सुंदर रूप बणावहि बेणु सुनत सभ मोहैगा ॥९॥
He assumed the beautiful form of the blue-skinned Krishna; hearing His flute, all are fascinated and enticed. ||9||
ਬਨਮਾਲਾ ਬਿਭੂਖਨ ਕਮਲ ਨੈਨ ॥
बनमाला बिभूखन कमल नैन ॥
He is adorned with garlands of flowers, with lotus eyes.
ਸੁੰਦਰ ਕੁੰਡਲ ਮੁਕਟ ਬੈਨ ॥
सुंदर कुंडल मुकट बैन ॥
His ear-rings, crown and flute are so beautiful.
ਸੰਖ ਚਕ੍ਰ ਗਦਾ ਹੈ ਧਾਰੀ ਮਹਾ ਸਾਰਥੀ ਸਤਸੰਗਾ ॥੧੦॥
संख चक्र गदा है धारी महा सारथी सतसंगा ॥१०॥
He carries the conch, the chakra and the war club; He is the Great Charioteer, who stays with His Saints. ||10||
4. If you read japji sahib teeka by sant gyani gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale, page 34. Sant ji actually gives example of previous avtar- krishan bhagvan mahavak in bhagvad gita to arjuna just to reiterate reason of arrival satguru nanak along with quote from sri dasam guru granth -
"Yada Yada Hi Dharmasya
Glanirva Bhavathi Bharatha,
Abhyuthanam Adharmaysya
Tadatmanam Srijami Aham'.
Praritranaya Sadhunam
Vinashaya Cha Dushkritam
Dharamasansthapnaya
Sambhavami Yuge-Yuge.
Jab Jab Hoth Aristh Apara Tab Tab Deh Dharat Avtara. (Sri Dasam Granth)
Here is the picture below, i will leave to readers, do your own research-
post-24251-0-61632500-1390105305_thumb.p
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just from a humanitarian point of view the deeds of these avtars are extremely repulsive - will we able to give respect to Guru Nanak if we heard a sakhi of him stealing bathing women's clothes or Guru Gobind Singh ji kicking out his pregnant wife just coz people - his subjects did not like the fact that she was abducted which was no fault of hers.

The other fact that most people miss out is these are mythological characters with no evidence whatsoever of having existed at any point in history - and the mythologies are full of ridiculous stories like Hanuman bringing a mountain from himachal to Sri lanka.

So kansa knew 8th child of a man and woman would kill him , yet he put them in the same prison cell :lol2:

These avtaars , devi devtas are major hurdles to ones spiritual development as their acts are anything but exemplary and cause too much 'hal chal' in the mind ..as opposed to bringing peace - contrast this with life of Gautam budha which is way more inspiring then these imaginary rama/krishna/ durga maata

neo singh ji I could care less what xyz bhindrawlae says - we have our own rational minds to analyze kartoots of these , did you not read Guru Nanak's "ravan maar kya bada bhaya" and "kans ched kya bada bhaya".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These avtars were real and Guru Granth sahib testifies to that. So do not spread missionary venom here.

They were sent with a mission and they failed in that mission.Instead they started calling themselves God

and indulged in self glorification. Hence they failed to realize God.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

neo singh ji I could care less what xyz bhindrawlae says - we have our own rational minds to analyze kartoots of these , did you not read Guru Nanak's "ravan maar kya bada bhaya" and "kans ched kya bada bhaya".

Gurbani talks about avtars, acknowledge and respects them where gurbani is talking about sarguna avtar aspect of akaal... its about leaving all preconceived ideas, insecurity, hyper parnioa aside and learn gurmat with open mind, if one does not want to contexualize gurbani and if one fails to see gurmat from various aspects/stages within gurmat (bhagti-sargun,shabad, shakti, gyan-nirgun) at some point when they read gurbani to search for total gurmat or gurmat in its totality - one faces with lot of issues of reconciliation , theological , ontological issues when it comes to analysing understanding and realizing deep layers of gurmat.

Old traditional gurmat provides seeker (given if seeker is receptive) frame work to realize gurmat in its totality from three main aspects of akaal in stages-

1. Sargun where akaal moraat immanet its attributes into avtars (six types) and highest beyond all avtars- Our Sarbat kala samarath Satguru Nanak along with shakti(bhaugti) invoke devotion in the mind of seeker to do bhagti nine types-seva, kirtan, seva of sri guru granth sahib ji, sri dasam guru granth sahib with shaki via chandi divar abhyas/shastar vidya/knowledge (to propagate, uphold and defend khalsa dharma), then same avtar and in our case- poran tam avtar- Satguru Nanak draws seeker within to explore shabad naam within seeker where seeker perceives 2nd/aspect stage shabad aspect of akaal.

2. Shabad- Same Satguru nanak dev ji himself pushes sikh away from first sarguna aspect perceptions of himself, then himself draw his sikh to go inside within himself and explore naam-shabad within via shabad surat/dhyan or other meditation techinques.

3. Nirgun-Advait One Non Dual reality -. Then finally same Satguru nanak dev ji draw his sikh towards its own estoric gyan layer of naam- one universal consciouness- sri dasam patsah updesh - o khalsa worship only one universal awakened light day and night - eventually/ultimately reveal jot saroop in form of self realization and at that stage* where there is no perception of any avtars its pure oneness parbhram- pure consciousness. At this stage, one actually does not in conceptual terms one worship intellectually but worship- one jot all prevading - all in one, one in all - Zeeman zaaman kai bhikaie samast ek jot hai na ghat na bhat hai na ghat bat hot hai ||

Many Gurbani tuks in sri dasam granth sahib which talks about avtars were destroyed by kaal (aad shakti of mahakaal) there to show ultimate reality how sargun is always changing not permanent not real world is illusion and false and these demi God's are not end all or be all.. Recognize yourself man tu jot saroop hai apna Mool paichain.... It's meant to raise bars of seeker - uplift seeker to ultimate stage of non duality where updesh is given and these avtars were like worms infront of akaal they couldn't find the end of akaal which is truth but in order to reconcile gurbani tukhs properly so there are no contradictions one has to look at from gyan perspective 3- Advait one non dual reality-gyan aspect and they should be taken as cautionary sermon/updesh to raise bar of seeker from sargun into nirgun.

Similiarly as mentioned in bachitar natak- sri guru gobind singh ji provides similiar cautionary message to sikhs who confine sri guru gobind singh ji still in sargun to rise above from sarguna and wake up smell the coffee of One non dual absolute reality of Gurmat.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a difference about status of avtars per Hindu and sikh teachings.

Hindus consider their avtars as supreme God or absolute divine authorities.

Sikhism consider these avtars as creation of akal purakh and it is akal purakh

that created and controlled them.But missionary mindset with shallow background

fails to understand that.Since their name appear in sikh scriptures especially

in detail in Dasam Granth sahib they interpret them per Hindu view. They do so

as none of them have read the granths and neither they have any practical

life of naam abhias as they call it AS PARROTING.

Guru sahib on these avtars

ਤੇ ਹਮ ਤਮਕਿ ਤਨਕ ਮੋ ਖਾਪੇ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਕੀ ਠਉਰ ਦੇਵਤਾ ਥਾਪੇ ॥
ते हम तमकि तनक मो खापे ॥ तिन की ठउर देवता थापे ॥
I destroyed them in no time and created gods in their place.

ਤੇ ਭੀ ਬਲਿ ਪੂਜਾ ਉਰਝਾਏ ॥ ਆਪਨ ਹੀ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰ ਕਹਾਏ ॥੭॥
ते भी बलि पूजा उरझाए ॥ आपन ही परमेसुर कहाए ॥७॥
They were also absorbed in the worship of power and called themselves Ominipotednt.7.

ਮਹਾਦੇਵ ਅਚੁੱਤ ਕਹਾਯੋ ॥ ਬਿਸਨ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਕੋ ਠਹਿਰਾਯੋ ॥
महादेव अचु्त कहायो ॥ बिसन आप ही को ठहिरायो ॥
Mahadeo (Shiva) was called Achyuta (blotless), Vishnu considered himself the Supreme.

ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਆਪ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਬਖਾਨਾ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਜਾਨਾ ॥੮॥
ब्रहमा आप पारब्रहम बखाना ॥ प्रभ को प्रभू न किनहूं जाना ॥८॥
Brahma called himself Para Brahman, none could comprehend the Lord.8

Bachtira natak , Dasam Granth sahib

ਜੋ ਚਉਬੀਸ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਕਹਾਏ ॥

जो चउबीस अवतार कहाए ॥
Those who are called twenty-four incarnations;

ਤਿਨ ਭੀ ਤੁਮ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤਨਿਕ ਨ ਪਾਏ ॥
तिन भी तुम प्रभ तनिक न पाए ॥
O Lord ! they even could not realise thee in a small measure;

ਸਭ ਹੀ ਜਗ ਭਰਮੇ ਭਵ ਰਾਯੰ ॥
सभ ही जग भरमे भव रायं ॥
They became kings of the world and got deluded;

ਤਾ ਤੇ ਨਾਮ ਬਿਅੰਤ ਕਹਾਯੰ ॥੭॥
ता ते नाम बिअंत कहायं ॥७॥
Therefore they were called by innumerable names.7.

Chaubis Avtar, Dasam Granth sahib

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

panthic unity writes

contrast this with life of Gautam budha which is way more inspiring then these imaginary rama/krishna/ durga maata

I am a little bit confused now. We have dealt with Hindu devtas in previous post.

Panthic unity ji, Budha doctorine does not believe in existence of an omnipotent creator.

In simple words per them there is no God. Do you have similar beliefs?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Far from being a non-believer in God, the Buddha acknowledged “one common essence” (1) which he, with his deeply-penetrating spiritual insight, was able to see and know. As far as I can see, this “one common essence” was God, as he implies in this further statement:


“If we examine the origin of anything in all the universe, we find that it is but a manifestation of some primal essence. Even the tiny leaves of herbs, knots of threads, everything, if we examine them carefully we find that there is some essence in its originality. Even open space is not nothingness. How can it be then that the wonderful, pure, tranquil and enlightened Mind, which is the source of all conceptions of manifested phenomena, should have no essence of itself?” (2)


In my view, the phrases “one common essence” and “primal essence” suggest knowledge of God.


To the best of my knowledge, the Buddha used Vipassana meditation to look ever more deeply into the structure of his own mind, and, when he reached the point where no wave (or vritti) arose in it, he saw his own “essence” or “nature.” Having seen it, he could declare:


“The Essential Intuitive Mind [possesses] its own mysterious Enlightening Nature, and … the attainment to this Essential Intuitive Mind unveils this mysterious Enlightening Nature.” (3)


I take this “mysterious enlightening nature” again to be God.


According to him, were there no God, “primal essence” or “mysterious enlightening nature,” there could be no possible escape from the self with its threefold suffering of sickness, old age, and death. He describes that “essence” with negatives.


“Monks, there is a not-born, a not-become, a not-made, a not-compounded. Monks, if that unborn, not-become, not-made, not-compounded were not, there would be apparent no escape from this, here, that is born, become, made, compounded.” (4)




"Harkh sog jake nahin, bairi meet samaan" - bipasna takes us towards this avastha where we are indifferent to dukh and sukh .



Another one is "Sa sidh sa karamat hai achint kare jis daat" - again bipasna helps us to get to this thoughtless state.



What do Ramyana ,mahabharat ,raasleela etc have to offer -besides tales of sleaze, trechery and deceit .


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use