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sikhiseeker

A Woman As A Panch Pyara?

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Seva is a route to cleansing the genderless soul of its previous Karam through service of other people and honest causes.

Mata sahib kaur added the sweet pataashe to the holy nectar while Shiri Guru Gobind Singh stirred the shakti of Akal Purakh within the nectar creating the stainless khalsa, my mother also drank the nectar and became khalsa. What is the difference of gender in khalsa, maybe we should of explained that to dhan dhan Mai bhago, that as sikhs,men and women have their set roles as per gristi, so carry on making the rotia? I don't think so sikhi, As rightly said, Mai bhago stayed in the company of Shiri kalgidhar mahraj, as khalsa!

LoL. So ?

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If a woman had stood up for giving a head when SatGuru Ji asked, there would have been a woman in the Panj - no doubt.

Edited by WaljinderSingh

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Wajinder Singh ji, is there any written hukam that a female khalsa is still not equal enough in comparison to a male khalsa and cannot do amrit sanchar or represent a panj pyara? Or is it us still as males, that we cannot disassociate ourselves with our ahankar of being a male in a male dominant world, where we have lost the understanding of a genderless atma and attach gender on the courageous act of the original panj pyare setting the 5 characteristics of the genderless khalsa of Shiri Guru Gobind Singh, created to instill courage and grant mukhti to the atma, to become sant saphae!

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Wajinder Singh ji, is there any written hukam that a female khalsa is still not equal enough in comparison to a male khalsa and cannot do amrit sanchar or represent a panj pyara? Or is it us still as males, that we cannot disassociate ourselves with our ahankar of being a male in a male dominant world, where we have lost the understanding of a genderless atma and attach gender on the courageous act of the original panj pyare setting the 5 characteristics of the genderless khalsa of Shiri Guru Gobind Singh, created to instill courage and grant mukhti to the atma, to become sant saphae!

next you will ask why were the 10 Gurus male and none of them women! Where does this end??

The truth is that 5 Male passed the test the Guru gave...

Sikhiseeker, you will not get anywhere by arguing why this why that. There are other things we can use our energy like Naam Simran, Amrit Vela, Reading Gurbani, listening kirtan and doing Sangat at the Guru...

and doing seva of course

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next you will ask why were the 10 Gurus male and none of them women! Where does this end??

The truth is that 5 Male passed the test the Guru gave...

Sikhiseeker, you will not get anywhere by arguing why this why that. There are other things we can use our energy like Naam Simran, Amrit Vela, Reading Gurbani, listening kirtan and doing Sangat at the Guru...

and doing seva of course

Dear brother,

I have not asked why the gurus were all male. This has no relevance to our previous posts to one another. Our debate, not argument is based on women becoming a panj pyara for nagar kirtans. As you asked me a question on the definition of seva, I answered, I asked you a question as you sound to be a intellectual Sikh if there is any written hukam from the guru or one of the scholars that a female who has been initiated into the Khalsa Panth cannot serve as a panch pyara, you never answered yet you are adamant that they cant? You put emphasis on gender, but gender in this life is irrelevant. We all have the same purpose of remerging with Akal purakh waheguru as by the Sikh path, mukhti is granted once the Khalsa is adopted and followed. The original panj pyare set the character of what the Khalsa represents. We all strive to follow that character, male and female alike. If male and female have the same Amrit sanchar, drink the same holy nectar through the same sarbloh, have the same initiation and told to recite the same words, then are gifted with the same panj kakkar and are instructed to live life as per the same gurmat, where is gender actually mentioned my brother?

Again is it our own ahankar of being male in a male dominant world, as our Guru never stopped our mothers and sisters fighting on a battlefield with men, the Amrit is for the atma of a human. What "other" seva would you permit our grandmother mata gujri to do? How was the shaheedi any less or anymore from bhai mati das to that of bibi charan kaur? None rite, so why shouldn't a female who is pure guru roop Khalsa not have the opportunity to serve as a panj pyara.

The word Khalsa derives from a Arabic word Khaal-saa which means pure and free, it is us who don't understand the equality what the guru set. Someone also on this topic asked me how far does my equality go, my answer is 100 % because we do not understand the meaning of atma, we only understand our physical roop. Look at the term sant siphae, it is you Mann what becomes shaanth and your soul becomes sant, your body becomes siphae? Does this transformation have Gender in its essence?

Also thank you for the suggestions on how I can spend my time, I am trying to advance my spiritual growth via the paths you kindly mentioned, also I'm trying to understand the gian, within the gian to further understand the limitless actions of our Gurus, our Shaheed and the granths and obviously the Shiri Guru Granth Sahib itself.

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Dear brother,

I have not asked why the gurus were all male. This has no relevance to our previous posts to one another. Our debate, not argument is based on women becoming a panj pyara for nagar kirtans. As you asked me a question on the definition of seva, I answered, I asked you a question as you sound to be a intellectual Sikh if there is any written hukam from the guru or one of the scholars that a female who has been initiated into the Khalsa Panth cannot serve as a panch pyara, you never answered yet you are adamant that they cant? You put emphasis on gender, but gender in this life is irrelevant. We all have the same purpose of remerging with Akal purakh waheguru as by the Sikh path, mukhti is granted once the Khalsa is adopted and followed. The original panj pyare set the character of what the Khalsa represents. We all strive to follow that character, male and female alike. If male and female have the same Amrit sanchar, drink the same holy nectar through the same sarbloh, have the same initiation and told to recite the same words, then are gifted with the same panj kakkar and are instructed to live life as per the same gurmat, where is gender actually mentioned my brother?

Again is it our own ahankar of being male in a male dominant world, as our Guru never stopped our mothers and sisters fighting on a battlefield with men, the Amrit is for the atma of a human. What "other" seva would you permit our grandmother mata gujri to do? How was the shaheedi any less or anymore from bhai mati das to that of bibi charan kaur? None rite, so why shouldn't a female who is pure guru roop Khalsa not have the opportunity to serve as a panj pyara.

The word Khalsa derives from a Arabic word Khaal-saa which means pure and free, it is us who don't understand the equality what the guru set. Someone also on this topic asked me how far does my equality go, my answer is 100 % because we do not understand the meaning of atma, we only understand our physical roop. Look at the term sant siphae, it is you Mann what becomes shaanth and your soul becomes sant, your body becomes siphae? Does this transformation have Gender in its essence?

Also thank you for the suggestions on how I can spend my time, I am trying to advance my spiritual growth via the paths you kindly mentioned, also I'm trying to understand the gian, within the gian to further understand the limitless actions of our Gurus, our Shaheed and the granths and obviously the Shiri Guru Granth Sahib itself.

Q. Can there be a woman in Panj pyare

A. No

Q. Reason.

A. Because as from Guru Nanak Dev ji a test was given to the Sangat, one Sikh (male) passed during that time- Bhai Leina ji or Guru Angad Dev ji.

In the case of Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji's test - 5 Sikhs (again male) passed. There were women in the congregation but none of them stood up. Guru ji asked a head of a Sikh not a 'man'.

So from that day (April 1699), 5 Nitnemi Amrtidhari Singh( baptised male Sikh) take part in the Amrit Sanchar in the form of Panj Pyare. As to Rehit nama - they are for the code of conduct of a Sikh as to how to lead the life as per the hukam - which is not as a Panj pyara. Did Guru ji advise or give HUKAM to a Sikh to be a Panj pyara once in their life?

What they did advice, is what I wrote above in the previous post.

Do you want to accept it is as an answer? If no, Its your choice.

Edited by WaljinderSingh

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    • came across this by accident recently. the altercations sound similar albeit in different circumstances. basically my point is whitey wudnt dare do this wiv blacky cuz theyre scared of em. but they like to think they take on browny i.e. singhs n win. they c em as weak n a soft touch. sadly its true in most cases. too many singhs r no longer men anymore. tht includes the metrosexual flex who r well built like a tank but weak in mind like a woman. its dwn to us to make whitey n blacky fear us as well. we need to be ready to fight bk n defend ourselves. thts how we need to be if we want to ensure or increase our survival in the west or abroad. there was a time wen no one used to think abt messin wiv a singh. we also need to be firm/serious wen needed which is most of the time in reality. not smiley n giggly males. its unmanly n irritating to c. dnt think the family wudve imagined this wud happen to em. n thts the point. we cnt keep thinkin im always gna be safe, its never gna happen to me etc. thts a mistake waitin to happen to any of us. the wife n baby cud easily have been caught n harmed had the singh not taken it upon himself to say something. theres a possibility he realised his limits n knew then n there he was fighting a lost cause. we have to learn from this n make sure our own limits r at a threshold tht will help save us if were ever in the same situation. its been mentioned numerous times before but it needs to be repeated until more folk wake up n listen n make the change themselves.
    • the sikh pa family statement made by his wife who wudve been the only eyewitness to it all makes no mention of any kirpan bein used anywhere during the confrontation. but one uk news outlet is quotin this white supremacist lookin thug as sayin he was stabbed in the shoulder which is wat led to the chokehold. as if tht shud help his case. fact is he saw a brown man n lost control. apparently thai law is only 4-15 yrs for trespass n manslaughter.
    • No mention of his kirpan,  does anyone know if he had it with him?
    • if the article in the news is read you will realise the attacker was a white Norwegian by the surname of Bullman , the Singh fought with this guy who was a trained martial artist whilst he told his wife to pick up the two year old and run. Bullman was intent on attacking her too.
    • This poster is pigg headed.  No where does it say the attacker was white.  But this poor excuse for an human being brings race into this topic because hes a piece of <banned word filter activated>.  No one was blaming this pigg headed poster.  Yet this clown writes "Betty white" in a post and nothing else and on a topic of a Sikh man dying.  What the hell does betty white have to do with this topic.  Go get lost.  Racist punks like you are not welcome here.  
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