As Sikhs, We All Know What The Kirpaan Represents, But How Many Of Us Know How To Use It?

[sikhiseeker]

WJKK, WJKF

Dear sadh sangat ji,

After reading a recent topic, I was wondering whether many sikhs know how to use a Kirpaan, engage in combat training or know how to handle a gun? I know the definition and spiritual meaning of a Kirpaan, however are we maybe forgetting its physical purpose? Are we still a martial race in large? As to utilise a talwar or grapple, you need some form of experience in combat. How many how us engage in gatka along side doing our Paath? Many sikhs have become unhealthy and even obese in satisfying the cravings of their Mann and taste buds with fatty snacks and the extra portion of aloo gobi or kfc and fries, do we not have an obligation to our guru to stay fit and able bodied as long as we can?

Is physical shakti also not important as spiritual Bhakti?

What are other brothers and also sisters views on this?

WJKK WJKF

[Cisco_Singh]

Great question. Unfortunately for the vast majority of SIkhs the Kirpan has become purely symbolic. It's has become a "trinket" to carry as one of the 5K's.This goes hand in hand with the general disregard of the warrior lifestyle within the Kaum at large.

The Sant-Sipahi ideal coined by Guru Hargobind Maharaj and later embodied into the Sant Sipahi Khalsa Fauj by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Mahaharaj has been left by the wayside. This has gradually happened ever since the loss of the SIkh Kingdom and times of peace. People think there is no need to have martial training or carry weapons in this day and age.

With it a lack of discipline and diregard for personal fitness, health and well being has also entered the panth. I would say hardly any Amritdharees have any knowledge of shastar or their usage, the Kirpans they carry are probbaly blunt and have most likely never been removed from their sheaths.

It is Guru Sahibs Hukum for Sikhs to be maintain physical fitness, make their bodies strong and engage in martial trianing. This is compulsory non-negotiable. However you will NOT learn the correct usage of shastar from gatka, do not waste your time with circus enterntaners tricks, learn a real combat art form..I have quoted several in the past..Panantukan, Kali, Eslrima, Silat, BJJ, Filipino Dirty Boxing, krabi krabong.

Although the Kirpan is an article of faith..puratan SInghs used to observe a rehit of 5 shastars.

Even in recent times, if we look at the Delhi riots of 1984, a lot of lives could have been saved had Sikhs carried shastar and been skilled in their usage, "tyar bar tyar" - Is what Khalsa should be "always ready". With racist attacks on the inrease every man, woman and child should take up physical fitness trianing and study of combat art forms.

There is a 50/50 equal realtionship between physical shakti and spirituality both must be maintained, It is the duty of Sikhs to uphold Dharam and protect the weak and down trodden this cannot be done with spiritual shakti alone.

[sikhiseeker]

Great question. Unfortunately for the vast majority of SIkhs the Kirpan has become purely symbolic. It's has become a "trinket" to carry as one of the 5K's.This goes hand in hand with the general disregard of the warrior lifestyle within the Kaum at large.

The Sant-Sipahi ideal coined by Guru Hargobind Maharaj and later embodied into the Sant Sipahi Khalsa Fauj by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Mahaharaj has been left by the wayside. This has gradually happened ever since the loss of the SIkh Kingdom and times of peace. People think there is no need to have martial training or carry weapons in this day and age.

With it a lack of discipline and diregard for personal fitness, health and well being has also entered the panth. I would say hardly any Amritdharees have any knowledge of shastar or their usage, the Kirpans they carry are probbaly blunt and have most likely never been removed from their sheaths.

It is Guru Sahibs Hukum for Sikhs to be maintain physical fitness, make their bodies strong and engage in martial trianing. This is compulsory non-nerotiable. However you will learn the correct usage of shastar from gatka, do not waste your time with circus enterntaners tricks, learn a real combat art form..I have quoted several in the past..Panantukan, Kali, Eslrima, Silat, BJJ, Filipino Dirty Boxing, krabi krabong.

Although the Kirpan is an article of faith..puratan SInghs used to observe a rehit of 5 shastars.

Even in recent times, if we look at the Delhi riots of 1984, a lot of lives could have been saved had Sikhs carried shastar and been skileld in their usage, "tyar bar tyar" - Is what Khalsa should be "always ready". With racist attacks on the inrease every man, woman and child should take up physical fitness trianing and study of combat art forms.

There is a 50/50 equal realtionship between physical shakti and spirituality both must be maintained, It is the duty of Sikhs to uphold Dharam and protect the weak and down trodden this cannot be done with spiritual shakti alone.

WJKK, WJKF

wow great post brother, your thoughts echo my exact thoughts! May Akal Purakh bless you my brother! It would be great to hear some of our sisters opinion on this as they are our equals too, so come on sisters where are you all?

[BritishSingh]

Every Amritdhari should know Gatka.

[Cisco_Singh]

Every Amritdhari should know Gatka.

Sorry I dont agree...It's a complete waste of time learning gatka..it's not even a martial art it's a circus entertainment act to entertain crowds. This is evident from several factors...the majority of weapons deployed in gatka are not used correctly...they have been lightened in weight so you can spin them around, the lengths are also incorrect.

Try lifting up a Puratan Khanda or Tulwar etc and try spinning it around luke gatkabaaj do...these weapons were heavy not designed or deployed in the method gatkabaaj show., Secondly Gatka has no coverage of unarmed combat, what happens if you are attacked or disarmed and have no weaponary ?? Carefully watch a gatka demo , all of their foot work and attacks are always choreographed, hit sword on shield, one after another, launch attacks fropm distances which are too far from the opponent..i.e: outside of effective combat range. There is no attempt to dodge, parry, cut angle out manouvere the opponent to a position where you can strike viyal point, make killing blows to limbs and throat etc..

These are just some very basic points, like I said every Sikh should study and become proficient in the usage of wepaonary and unarmed combat. Fot this you are better served in learning Panantukan, Kali, Eslrima, Silat, BJJ, Filipino Dirty Boxing, krabi krabong. Or search out the remaining teachers that might still exist within Nihang Dals in india who retain knowledge of puratan Jang Vidiya. Or if your UK based the only teacher in the UK I know of with knowledge of indo-persion weaponary is Nidar Singh, but due to his alternative views on Sanatan Sikhi etc you might not wish to learn from him

[BritishSingh]

My point was that as amritdharis we should know how to use the kirpan given to us by Guru Ji and Gatka came to mind because it is connected to sikhi. If there is another Sikhi way to use the kirpan then please share.

As for non armed combat for Sikhs, I have heard of hathka. Also as amritdharis we should never be unarmed with some very strict exceptions such as going on an airplane.

[POODNA]

Unfortunately amidst all the political correctness the Kirpan has become a mere 'article of faith' and has lost any real sense of purpose. All thanks to the uprise of hyppi 'Sikhs'

[sikhiseeker]

I agree with the majority of posts made, I think any movement towards some form of rekindling the knowledge of weaponry is a plus, whether it is gatka or any other form off Shastar vidya as many of us at present either are to thin to pick up a kirpan and wield it with the right force or too large in weight to actually be bothered.

The minimal amount of sikhs actually posting their view on this debate maybe a reflection of the actual opinion of the majority of sikhs, that it is not now necessary, however in my opinion the khalsa panth and Bhakti/shakti go side by side as our guru intended, so my question is, who are we now to differ from this and why is it happening?

We all debate on the Bhagti of our dharam, but why do we not discuss the shakti?

[UKLondonSikh]

_{Aside from agreeing with SikhiSeeker Ji and Cisco Singh, the other important point is that via use of the term "Kirpan" Guru Sahib referred to any shastar through which the Khalsa Panth can do the "kirpa" of innocent suffering humanity in their defence. Thus any usable shastar in the instance where, for example, someone does not have access to what has recently been commonly known as a kirpan counts as a Kirpan in the way Guru Sahib referred to Shahstar in the hands of the Khalsa Panth.}

_{Thus a gun, a spear, a sword, a knife, an axe, etc, etc all count as Kirpan in certain circumstances. When Guru Sahib advised the Khalsa Panth to be tyaar bar tyaar with access to 5 shastar always, that is what has morphed in the minds of some into the suggestion of 5 kakkars (however blunt or miniscule or unuable a a so-called micro-adornment-kirpan may be) are the requisite, when in fact Guru Sahib emphasised the Kirpan must be usable in the defense of Sarbat Da Bhalla. Furthermore, if we find African Sikhs who keep unshorn dreadlocks, Guru Sahib never meant for such members of the Khalsa Panth (from Africa) to necassarily always keep kangha should they keep Kes (in the form of uncut dreadlocks) and true Kirpan (usable shastar) as is mandatory for the Khalsa Panth.}

[sikhiseeker]

_{Aside from agreeing with SikhiSeeker Ji and Cisco Singh, the other important point is that via use of the term "Kirpan" Guru Sahib referred to any shastar through which the Khalsa Panth can do the "kirpa" of innocent suffering humanity in their defence. Thus any usable shastar in the instance where, for example, someone does not have access to what has recently been commonly known as a kirpan counts as a Kirpan in the way Guru Sahib referred to Shahstar in the hands of the Khalsa Panth.}

_{Thus a gun, a spear, a sword, a knife, an axe, etc, etc all count as Kirpan in certain circumstances. When Guru Sahib advised the Khalsa Panth to be tyaar bar tyaar with access to 5 shastar always, that is what has morphed in the minds of some into the suggestion of 5 kakkars (however blunt or miniscule or unuable a a so-called micro-adornment-kirpan may be) are the requisite, when in fact Guru Sahib emphasised the Kirpan must be usable in the defense of Sarbat Da Bhalla. Furthermore, if we find African Sikhs who keep unshorn dreadlocks, Guru Sahib never meant for such members of the Khalsa Panth (from Africa) to necassarily always keep kangha should they keep Kes (in the form of uncut dreadlocks) and true Kirpan (usable shastar) as is mandatory for the Khalsa Panth.}

WJKK, WJKF

Agree with your post brother, the issues with 5 kakkar again is another topic which confuses many Sikhs. Right or wrong, it is just another point that is not clear for anyone looking in on sikhi and wanting to become Sikh. My topic on where we have taken sikhi today raises many points of the different views all Sikhs have on Rehat. I'm worried that in the near future, any Sikh who wants to practice their Shastar vidya and participate in hunting or jhatkaa, they will be shunned as it seems people are not acknowledging the shakti side of our dharam which coincides with Bhakti.

How many of amritdhari's know the degree of force at which a Shastar/kirpaan has to be swung to inflict a fatal blow? How many of us can strike our kirpaan at the desired target accurately?

I would encourage Sikhs to remember we are a religion what utilises both Bhakti and shakti, we can debate and show our knowledge in dharmic issues and topics, which indeed is a merit. But how many of us are Tyar bar Tyar Sikhs as my brother UKLONDONSIKH rightly stated, who can physically defend our dharam?

We cant talk our fellow soldier to death in war lol, never mind not being physically strong enough, maybe we are now emotionally not strong enough for what a jang stands for and what has to be done!