Question About Chandi Di Vaar

[Bijla Singh]

The answer is provided on this page: http://searchsikhism.com/hind11

[sikhiseeker]

WJKK WJKF,

I think what has been lost in this topic is worship and praising are two very different things. I believe that the raw power of Durga mata is always in support of the khalsa whenever it is needed, waheguru is the viewer to whatever is being played out and the creator of both sukh and right, there always has to be to opposing sides for warfare, but both are the creation of waheguru. The worship of anyone other than waheguru is condemned, however praise of ones actions are not, whatever form of creation being human or another extra terrestrial race. It is evident in both gurbani and Sri Dasam Granth, praise and critism are given to the devte and devia, as again they had imperfections. The analogies of the devia being the sweepers of waheguru demonstrate that such a high knowledgeable creation of waheguru, with much more intellect than ours is simply compared to a humble sweeper of waheguru. It is to demonstrate the greatness of the almighty in contrast to something which is much more greater than us. It is only a gurmukh who is void of the normal process after death set by the laws of dharma, hence why dharam raj and his jam dhoot have no jurisdiction over a true gurmukh.

WJKK WJKF

[N30S1NGH]

According to sant gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale gurmat vidya maartand katha where he quoted from amar kosh and indicated bhaugati to have four meaning -

1. Akaal purkh including all sargun aspects (sargun and nirgun is one non dual ikongkar leaving no room for duality)

2. Kirpan- Sri Sahib (sargun aspect)

3. Bhagvati durga Chandi (sargun aspect/femine sargun aspect of akaal purkh)

4. Aad Shakti( shakti maya-sargun aspect-shiv shakti)

All four forms of interpretations are accepted and used depending on the context of gurbani in sri dasam granth sahib, you cannot confine bhaugti to (nirgun only when clearly in shabd its mentioning sargun manifestations of that nirgun) and and overall you cannot confine ad shakti to one sargun aspect while totally rejecting other sargun aspects which is all sargun personification of aad shakti/akaal purkh.

[N30S1NGH]

WJKK WJKF,

I think what has been lost in this topic is worship and praising are two very different things. I believe that the raw power of Durga mata is always in support of the khalsa whenever it is needed, waheguru is the viewer to whatever is being played out and the creator of both sukh and right, there always has to be to opposing sides for warfare, but both are the creation of waheguru. The worship of anyone other than waheguru is condemned, however praise of ones actions are not, whatever form of creation being human or another extra terrestrial race. It is evident in both gurbani and Sri Dasam Granth, praise and critism are given to the devte and devia, as again they had imperfections. The analogies of the devia being the sweepers of waheguru demonstrate that such a high knowledgeable creation of waheguru, with much more intellect than ours is simply compared to a humble sweeper of waheguru. It is to demonstrate the greatness of the almighty in contrast to something which is much more greater than us. It is only a gurmukh who is void of the normal process after death set by the laws of dharma, hence why dharam raj and his jam dhoot have no jurisdiction over a true gurmukh.

WJKK WJKF

Exactly, this is key point praising and worshipping are two very different things. I tried to highlight similiar point in other thread of aad shakti last year.

Sri guru gobind singh ji in jaap sahib and akaal ustat doing namaskar to whole creation as creator and creation are not seperate, creator is infused in creation..

Sri guru gobind singh ji praising sargun parkriti which is functioning because of shakti/force/energy-aad shakti of akaal purkh/chaitan-consciouness of akaal purkh behind that creation.

ਜਲੇ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਥਲੇ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਉਰੇ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਬਨੇ ਹਰੀ ॥੧॥੫੧॥

जले हरी ॥ थले हरी ॥ उरे हरी ॥ बने हरी ॥१॥५१॥

The Lord is in water. The Lord is on land. The Lord is in the heart. The Lord is in the forests.1.51.

ਗਿਰੇ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਗੁਫੇ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਛਿਤੇ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਨਭੇ ਹਰੀ ॥੨॥੫੨॥

गिरे हरी ॥ गुफे हरी ॥ छिते हरी ॥ नभे हरी ॥२॥५२॥

The Lord is in he mountains. The Lord is in the cave. The Lord is in he earth. The Lord is in the sky. 2.52.

ਈਹਾਂ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਉਹਾਂ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਜਿਮੀ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਜਮਾ ਹਰੀ ॥੩॥੫੩॥

ईहां हरी ॥ उहां हरी ॥ जिमी हरी ॥ जमा हरी ॥३॥५३॥

The Lord is in here. The Lord is there. The Lord is in the earth. The Lord is in the sky. 3.53.

ਅਲੇਖ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਅਭੇਖ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਅਦੋਖ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਅਦ੍ਵੈਖ ਹਰੀ ॥੪॥੫੪॥

अलेख हरी ॥ अभेख हरी ॥ अदोख हरी ॥ अद्वैख हरी ॥४॥५४॥

The Lord is Accountless. The Lord is guiseless. The Lord is blemishless. The Lord is sans duality.4.54.

ਅਕਾਲ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਅਪਾਲ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਅਛੇਦ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਅਭੇਦ ਹਹੀ ॥੫॥੫੫॥

अकाल हरी ॥ अपाल हरी ॥ अछेद हरी ॥ अभेद हही ॥५॥५५॥

The Lord is non-temporal. The Lord cannot be reated. The Lord is Indestructible. The Lord`s secrets cannot be known. 5.55.

We all know guru maharaj isn't worshipping jale (water) or thale (earth) but praising hari behind creation (creator is infused in creation-karta purkh). Key point here is in sikhi you cannot remove creator (kartapurkh) from its creation..!!

Not sure why sikhs get so insecure and paranoid where gurbani is praising akaal purkh sargun manifestation..

[N30S1NGH]

Gyani sher singh ji explains aad shakti of vahiguroo in gurmat:

For understanding purposes, he gaves the example of bijli-electric current, backdrop shakti/force/energy essence (tat gyan) of akaal purkh-karta purkh is same however it radiants in many various ways/different levels.

For example- only 80 w of electricity can go in 80 w bulb (thats what it capacity is) is obviously lower than generator which also uses electricity has more capacity to harness, however what remains the same tat gyan-back drop remains the same in both bulb and generator which is electricity-aad shakti behind it.

In sri dasam guru granth, credit/praise is given where its due (be it historical female chandi/durga - bhaugati-sri sahib/bhagvati female sargun aspect of akaal purkh) by keeping the backdrop(essence/non dualistic-Ikongkar-creator in its creation-not confined to but its always there) in mind.

[sikhiseeker]

Exactly, this is key point praising and worshipping are two very different things. I tried to highlight similiar point in other thread of aad shakti last year.

Sri guru gobind singh ji in jaap sahib and akaal ustat doing namaskar to whole creation as creator and creation are not seperate, creator is infused in creation..

Sri guru gobind singh ji praising sargun parkriti which is functioning because of shakti/force/energy-aad shakti of akaal purkh/chaitan-consciouness of akaal purkh behind that creation.

ਜਲੇ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਥਲੇ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਉਰੇ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਬਨੇ ਹਰੀ ॥੧॥੫੧॥

जले हरी ॥ थले हरी ॥ उरे हरी ॥ बने हरी ॥१॥५१॥

The Lord is in water. The Lord is on land. The Lord is in the heart. The Lord is in the forests.1.51.

ਗਿਰੇ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਗੁਫੇ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਛਿਤੇ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਨਭੇ ਹਰੀ ॥੨॥੫੨॥

गिरे हरी ॥ गुफे हरी ॥ छिते हरी ॥ नभे हरी ॥२॥५२॥

The Lord is in he mountains. The Lord is in the cave. The Lord is in he earth. The Lord is in the sky. 2.52.

ਈਹਾਂ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਉਹਾਂ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਜਿਮੀ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਜਮਾ ਹਰੀ ॥੩॥੫੩॥

ईहां हरी ॥ उहां हरी ॥ जिमी हरी ॥ जमा हरी ॥३॥५३॥

The Lord is in here. The Lord is there. The Lord is in the earth. The Lord is in the sky. 3.53.

ਅਲੇਖ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਅਭੇਖ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਅਦੋਖ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਅਦ੍ਵੈਖ ਹਰੀ ॥੪॥੫੪॥

अलेख हरी ॥ अभेख हरी ॥ अदोख हरी ॥ अद्वैख हरी ॥४॥५४॥

The Lord is Accountless. The Lord is guiseless. The Lord is blemishless. The Lord is sans duality.4.54.

ਅਕਾਲ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਅਪਾਲ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਅਛੇਦ ਹਰੀ ॥ ਅਭੇਦ ਹਹੀ ॥੫॥੫੫॥

अकाल हरी ॥ अपाल हरी ॥ अछेद हरी ॥ अभेद हही ॥५॥५५॥

The Lord is non-temporal. The Lord cannot be reated. The Lord is Indestructible. The Lord`s secrets cannot be known. 5.55.

We all know guru maharaj isn't worshipping jale (water) or thale (earth) but praising hari behind creation (creator is infused in creation-karta purkh). Key point here is in sikhi you cannot remove creator (kartapurkh) from its creation..!!

Not sure why sikhs get so insecure and paranoid where gurbani is praising akaal purkh manifestation..

WJKK WJKF

Dear sikha,

I agree with you 100% and admire your writing skills of how you explain something so clearly. May waheguru bless you with more gian as you have the gift of explanation in such a beautiful clear manner which will help so many people like me who have questions which need answering. I enjoy reading many of your posts.

WJKK WJKF

[Jonny101]

Many of the compositions in Sri Dasam Granth are translations of Sanskrit epics done by Guru Jee. So it's possible that the tukh that says "Durga path banaya sabay paurian || Fir na jooni aaya jin eh gaaya ||55|| are also a translation of the original Sanskrit work.

[N30S1NGH]

"Durga path banaya sabay paurian || Fir na jooni aaya jin eh gaaya ||55||

Durga here is obviously referred to both sargun and nirgun, whats the backdrop essence behind physical durga? I sense/sidhant tell us shakti/one universal awareness/primal force/energy-aad shakti which is all prevading is in harmony with everything else.

[BarinderSingh]

1. Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji goes into detail on what Bhaugati means in the begin of Chandi di Vaar. He says first time the word comes up it means Sri Sahib. Second time it means Vaheguru. The recording is on www.gurmatveechar.com

2. Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji also says others say like poster sikhiseeker, akalinihangguptsingh, and now n3os1ngh that Guru Sahib praised the devi (Durga) but he says these people are wrong and quotes Gurbani to say how wrong they are.

Saying Guru Sahib is praising Durga is a miserable failed attempt at trying to add authority to a point Sant ji does not support.

Additionally this shows not only do they not understand the teachers they supposely learn from but they dont have the knowledge to contemplate over Gurbani by themselves. They rely on second hand knowledge that they cannot verify. So this is a dangerous path to walk on when you cant verify anything.

[BarinderSingh]

WJKK WJKF

What is evident is the warrior skill base given to Durga mata by Akal Purakh, hence why this entity was able to defeat the other force being demons created by waheguru again, both these creations are from the basis matter of the god partical.

Just how we as sikhs can credit the khalsa fauj with praise of their achievement in and out of battle, is the very same way that we can praise the Durga mata for her undeniable warrior spirit and skill. This gian and shakti for both the khalsa and Durga mata only capable due to Akal Purakh waheguru, the same also for the demons.

Just because you praise someone or something on the boundaries of sikhi is not blasphemy in a sense. I admire the devotion of the prophet Abraham, this does not make me a member of the Abrahamic faith, the very fact that Durga mata fought against demon spirits with whatever advanced weaponry calls for praise of her actions. They deserve our namashakaar and respect for the era in which this occurred within Akal purakhs "theatre" as do the khalsa and many other people around the world like the soldiers who gave their life's in ww2.

WJKK WJKF

I have already addressed this invalid point you made in a prevoius post. Yet you have not addressed what I have said by quoting Chandi Di Vaar the very Bani we speak of.

Why do you call Durga as Durga mata?