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Police With Shoes In Gurdwara Karamsaar Ilford


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Police with shoes in Gurdwara Karamsaar Ilford

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nLjw4dyW6qs

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Gurdwara Karamsar ILFORD

20 hours ago · Shared publicly

Waheugu Ji Ka Khalsa Waheugu Ji Ki Fateh

A video is going around (in fact, a few are) of Gurdwara Karamsar ILFORD, in which a group of Sikhs are being 'STOPPED' from doing Santhia. The videos are skewed and are being uploaded by an individual.

FIRST POINT:

The group who attended this evening had begun santhia around 6 weeks ago, without gaining any permission from the Gurdwara management. They have been coming in and were since told not to continue, as there is no responsible individual who can be held accountable, if something were to happen. In addition, the group were told that there is santhia which occurs every Thursday, so it is not as if there is 'nothing for the sangat', as is being implied in the video. There is also Gurbani viakhia on Mondays, Weekly simran on Thursdays, along with Punjabi and Sikh History classes.

SECOND POINT:

The darbar sahib was being shown to be locked. The 2nd floor darbar is usually locked for security reasons, and is opened when there is a programme (It is a spare hall). Again, such individuals were denied access but wanted to forcefully run their santhia. This group contains individuals from the Mata Sahib Kaur Academy (since closed), and they have been denied access at all the local Gurdwaras. The main darbar, on the 1st floor, was open and kirtan and katha carried on till half past 9!

THIRD POINT:

There is no rule that the police officers couldn't wear their shoes and hats outside the darbar sahib. They did not wear shoes in darbar sahib. The police were called prior to this event, and they maintained a calm presence, only being there to prevent any violence. From observance, and by being a human being with eyes, I can see that some people only attended to increase the sangat numbers. Speaks for itself.

The Gurdwara trust has allowed many regular activities and events to occur, and as such it is my most favourite Gurdwara. Please keep an open mind when these videos come before you.

Waheugu Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

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General observation from outsider on overall suitation.. yet again more problems in gurdwaras in england usually involving youths..England seems like s hole place to live for practicing sikh, we have no issues like that for most part in canada, every sikhs know the fine line-live and let live...it appears in england you got more self righteous cactus jacks /singhs who got chip on their shoulder crowd than live and let live crowd......!!



For eg- I have hung around with many taksali youths in canada,, they are most chilled out people i know they are totally chilled out and do their bhagti on the side while enjoying life and nature- mountain biking, hiking etc...compare to taksali youths in uk, who i have met online are outright self righteous condescending cactus jacks...even akj in canada are so mellow in canada, don't even know they exist very silent and polite, they are peaceful and do their own thing- rehansbhai and stuff..



Looks like england sikh youths regardless if its taksali, akj, nihangs having a serious problem with integration with wider egalitarian western values which is compatible with gurbani message of freedom of speech, freedom of liberty, equal rights for humanity, so far they have segragated themselves in ghetto causing all kind of tribal issues in the community.



I predict if sikhs youths in england don't pay attention, they probably end up facing bigger problems like muslim youths ghettos in france will further cause all kind of issues- rioting, fighting amongst each other, violence, fascism etc.


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VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Having been to this Gurudwara, I think the Sangat would beat me to a bloody pulp if I wore shoes beyond the jorrha-ghar that is right by the entrance. I can see that certainly inflaming any Sikh who attends that Gurudwara. The rest - no comment.

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Guest MrHSinghK

This should be reported on Sikh channel these people and there Thug Committee should exposed on the sikh media. Absolutely sickening acts by management M A D A R C H O D 'S !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

if we can't use the gurdwara for bani purposes why should the youth even bother attending

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its a minority rather than a majority, it looks mainly like singhs and their families who have migrated to the uk and not born in the uk

Bhai Sahib, what do you mean by above statement? Are you saying that immigrants from India are inferior than those who born in UK ? Also, How did you judge that they are immigrants from india? Isn't this same as airport security official signalling out turban wearing sikh for a "random" searching?

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Bhai Sahib, what do you mean by above statement? Are you saying that immigrants from India are inferior than those who born in UK ? Also, How did you judge that they are immigrants from india? Isn't this same as airport security official signalling out turban wearing sikh for a "random" searching?

Calm down and don't misinterpret.

Sikhs born in UK can usually spot the one's that are 1st gen-immigrants, just like the UK born get spotted in India as valeties, quite easily.

I believe the UK police are quite aware about not entering darbar sahib with shoes on, as they have learned from past incidents in 80's,90's.

Like Sat, I also believe the op to be quite sincere, and the issue is about health and safety, due to the sangat coming in large numbers without permission. If there is no one in charge or willing to be held responsible for the health and safety of those persons......who's going to answer if there was a major issue ?

BTW- health and safety issues are given much much more importance in UK, than in the americas.

I don't know the ins and outs of the situation, but it seems the police were called in because of possible evidence of threat or trouble and It doesn't seem like a 999(911) emergency call.

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Sikhs born in UK can usually spot the one's that are 1st gen-immigrants, just like the UK born get spotted in India as valeties, quite easily.

Bhai Sahib, Can you share your thoughts on what qualities one look at in order to make judgement that particular person is Indian immigrant or so on.

So it is right for airport security to make judgement on the possibility of aligning turban wearing sikh as some middle east or some foreigner because of the 'Sikh' physical description not fitting in with guard's own cultural understanding.

If we see large number of Sikhs (whether they are immigrants or not) gathering @ gurdwara sahib then it becomes health & safety issue is something new.

Personally, i got no clue about the situation but the racism within our community is certainly not good.

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How are the police suppose to take their shoes off when they can be walking into anything? The police are not at fault; they have to attend to calls made for their assistance.

Why are outsiders that know nothing about the issue making all these wild claims? Escape code blame the immigrants.

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Guest dasguruka

New strategies of the corrupted Gurdwaras is to try to intimidate Sikh Sangat by calling police for unnecessary reasons. Have seen it done here in CA as well. I'm just waiting to see what Akal Purakh does to all these people who are trying to mislead/intimdate Sikh Sangat. This is pathetic. Sikhi is such a beautiful way of life and hate to see these Guru Nindaks sticking out like thorns on this path of Sikhi.

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Sikhs born in UK can usually spot the one's that are 1st gen-immigrants, just like the UK born get spotted in India as valeties, quite easily.

Bhai Sahib, Can you share your thoughts on what qualities one look at in order to make judgement that particular person is Indian immigrant or so on.

So it is right for airport security to make judgement on the possibility of aligning turban wearing sikh as some middle east or some foreigner because of the 'Sikh' physical description not fitting in with guard's own cultural understanding.

If we see large number of Sikhs (whether they are immigrants or not) gathering @ gurdwara sahib then it becomes health & safety issue is something new.

Personally, i got no clue about the situation but the racism within our community is certainly not good.

Please forgive me if i have offended or hurt your feelings as this was not my intention, i made that remark from what i picked up from the video and it was my perception, as for being able to tell the difference as luckysingh ji has said it is the same as how we are picked out as being from baar or valethiyeh etc etc in india.

I meant no offence.

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I know this gurdwara well. Whilst the sangat were on to a good thing by wanting to do their own santiya class, they should have consulted and had prior agreement from the gurdwara management. We all know you can't just walk into a gurdwara because it has an empty hall and start using it for your own purposes, even if it for a good cause. If there wasn't a overseeing management structure in place there would be chaos in the running of gurdware and everyone would be helping themselves to the facilities.

Videos relating to incident have gone viral on facebook within the Sikh community locally. Personally I think it is being blown well out of proportion. Rather than addressing the core issue the group were facing i.e. not having a place to do their santiya class they are now more interested in defaming the gurdwara by showing videos of police wearing shoes outside the darbar hall and sachkhand. Yes the general sangat are supposed to leave their shoes downstairs but I guess in the case of the police an exception was made by the management.

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Please forgive me if i have offended or hurt your feelings as this was not my intention, i made that remark from what i picked up from the video and it was my perception, as for being able to tell the difference as luckysingh ji has said it is the same as how we are picked out as being from baar or valethiyeh etc etc in india.

I meant no offence.

none taken Bhai Sahib and appreciate your nice reply.

Of course there is vast difference between sikhs living abroad and india. I see 'valatey' sikhs to be more ethical than those who live in punjab however, punjab sikhs feel proud of their brothers/sisters living abroad. on the other side i see many young 'valatey' sikhs looking down upon immigrants who is not or refuse to adjust to western social culture.

Sat1176, i agree with you that there should be a process where such incident does not happen - like asking permission to hold any program inside darbar hall. However the other side of the management made grave mistake by calling cops, fully knowing that they will enter darbar hall with shoes.

Solution? Keep politics out of gurughars and we wont see such horrible news again.

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From all the footage I have seen the police did not enter the darbar sahib, they were standing outside. Even the sangat is sitting outside the darbar facing it most likely because the top floor darbar was closed.

Reading between the lines here, but from the videos it looks like the sangat were protesting they will hold the santiya class there whether the management agree or not. In that circumstance it would appear the police were called.

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