Caste System

[Deep Singh]

One word: Racism!

[mehar singh]

I have physical evidence of out of India origin, my eye colour could not of possibly originated in India and I have never gotten called East Indian accept for my Kharra, my best freinds parents thought I was Greek for 7 years, until I myself finally told them.

Get your DNA check up and make sure that you belong to the family of which you claim to.

You can visit Jerry Springler show or Mowry show because they do it for free.

[Bijla Singh]

perhaps your ancestors lived in india forever. greeks invaded and it showed up now. check with greeks. you might find some of you ancestors there. just trying to help you there. :wub: God Bless.

[Son of Scthia]

ah, you guys cant see it from my point of view I guess

[Gupt daasan daas]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

veer je, i see ure proud of ure histroy

but do u know y if were named gill, that name is destryoed and replaced with singh or kaur?

bhula chuka maf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Son of Scthia]

I do know, but I also know that Sikhi has been around for close to 400 years, and I can positively say 95% of todays Jatt clans are still within the Jatt circle, whether Guru ji was here or was not and thats a fact. I've seen my own family tree at Hardwar on my dads side, not one person has married out of Jatt circle in the past 13 generations. This is true for an overwhelming majority of Jatts. This is definitely not caste based, more race based. The differences are too great between Jatts and other groups of Punjab/Haryana/UP.

[Gupt daasan daas]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

but veer je

even guru je says forget race

in their bani they say

my caste and creed is KHALSA

even when we take amrit, our pind is ananudpur, mom and dad gurugobind singh je and matha sahib kaur je, and our nanakee guru ka lahore

and our last name is destroyed and replaced with u know wat, singh and kaur

so guru je destroys our previous castes and race

bhula chuka maf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

Well, you could have a mutation...sure that you were not swimming in a bucket of mutagen when you were young? :T:

Yeah, we get it. You are a Jatt. You are proud to be a Jatt. What's this got to do with Sikhism? It is like a Causasian saying "I am White" over and over on a Christian forum...there ain't no connection.

[DesiVibe]

we should all get along fine as sikhs but not forced to give up our history ancestral bloodlines clans nor should we be forced to intermarry with different castes and races if like most we feel content. That certainly will not affect our sikhi, its individuals who have an inferiority complex about it and make it a big deal who create divisive barriers like opening caste only gurdwaras. Singh sabhas have all kinds of sikhs in their committees nowdays although i agree 30 years ago it wasnt the case. So we can work together but we dont need to go to ridicolous lentghs.

We should definatly see vaheguru ji jot inside everyone be they jatt terkhan chammar anyone ive missed that doesnt mean you have to marry your daughter to one to proove it. How many of you would marry your sister to a bihari converted to sikhi? Spiritually we are one theres a lot of honest people who socialise with chammars jatts nais etc and go round each others houses with pyar while some will tarnish everyone else with a bad brush.

and one of you guys came back on the other thread citing time of rangley sarjan on 1699 question, but i would like to ask how many from that time period 1699 did interace and caste marriages? if that was the case it would be mentioned to show us to what lentghs sikhs went to accomodate the new identity we had. and how many do it now?

Im not being divisive im saying hit the nail on the head lets be real. the last thing you want is to see some of these budding new amritdharis they think at marriage time their wont be race and caste to think about. Now i have seen some people resort to dating another amritdhari because the reality hits them like a shock and they fee

l they cant a find partner any other way. Now isnt that harmful within a sikh panth and for the individual? So lets break through that let the reality be known we were are are spiritually equal. An answer is needed that would accomodate both the majority and the new amritdharis who would have potential probs. I think if panchain stuck with the jatha this polarisation would not have occured . But now it has they should unite to bring the balances back. Im pretty sure just 12 years ago how you guys would have felt at a rensbhai with that many singhs singhnia from different backgrounds just being one and japping naam together and still being part of their families. As for ddt i think if they did parchar in pinds where theres all kinds that too would bring in balances from duifferent jaats. Now one example look at nanak nishkam jatha how many of you would seriously think of marrying inside a kenyan diaspora circle? both are amritdhari, but i can bet you wont fit in i tried it you can too. Its this polarisation thats a problem where one flocks, whilst theres a lot of respect between different races and castes in many sikh circles where such issues do not arise. Its not the race or caste but the insecure individuals who either take it all the wrong way or try to push ahead 100mph to blend our identity where we will have nothing left. If you take your panjabiat away totally youl be left with a bunch of westernised confused sikhs with no knowledge of their roots.

I know some of you deep down will agree but this being a touchy topic cant openly say it. In the end we can still be one and whoever wants to blend themselves totally go ahead and try it all dues respects when you have cultures clashes thats when youl remember this.

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

DesiVibe Sahib Ji, your view on reality is correct. Even in the most devout and ferverent followers of Sikhism, this issue of marrying within each other's ancestral associations does occur. And today, people still face this issue about marriage. But it is vital that this slowly be taken out of Sikhism. Unfortunately, there are enough people focused on their race in the Sikh world to have stopped 60 million people from becoming Sikhs around 1947, to have caused the phenomenon of "Guru Ravidaas" Gurudwaras being started beacuse others considered them "too low of a caste" to be part of "their" Gurudwaras. Yes, these issues do remain.

However, it is the ideal of Sikhism which is at the table. The practice of marrying/associating with your "own caste" are really not acceptable for a Sikh, as for the reasons described.

Lastly, about the point of 1699. There is evidence that even people who were closely associated with the Guru Sahiban were still stuck in their caste affiliations, as is evidenced by some Rehatnamas. But Guru Sahib laid down an ideal...it is that which we strive to reach, not what everyone has been and is doing.