Honest Living

[Guest Guest]

In Sikhi we are taught "Kirit Karni" making an honest living. I trade markets such as oil, gold, currencies, etc. and am profitable. I do not gamble as it's a complete business, and with proper risk control and system, it is very rewarding business. I was talking to my old economic teacher today and told him about the 3 Pillars of Sikhi and mentioned "Kirit Karni". He said trading is not of much an honest living. From the sangats view, do you think investing/trading is an honest living?

[harsharan000]

Dear _Guest_

as long as your business= investment/trading does not deal with:

theft

extortion

drugs,

alcohol,

meat,

prostitution, or any of its branches,

and does not harm anyone, by word, thought and action,

neither does it trespass the law of righteousness(dharma),

neither do you cheat your customers,

nor suck the blood of your workers, if any at all,

you should not feel guilty at all, that is indeed honest living.

Honesty has to do with consciousness in normal conditions .... though I am quite aware that sinners have no consciousness ...

But from your talking and your attitude, I perceive ...... that you are honest.

The motor behind anything immoral: is the focre of ego and greed combined together. Ego can not be eliminated so easily by us, but at least we should control greed, so that it may not ruin us.

History has ample examples of these greedy people: like Ravan, like Hitler, like Duryodhan ...and an endless list of more such individuals... who inspite of acheving, name, fame, high status ....died like beasts.

[luckysingh99]

....I trade markets such as oil, gold, currencies, etc. and am profitable...........

.......He said trading is not of much an honest living. From the sangats view, do you think investing/trading is an honest living?

Many factors come into play in this question.

Firstly, your boss stating that there is not much honesty in trading, gives an idea of what his intentions are and where his limitations would be.

Maybe he has the idea that if you want to reach the sky, then rules may need breaking and honesty may not be kept fully.

Therefore, One factor is that you have to ask yourself what your honest intentions are to succeed and up to which point you don't cross the line.

Trading is a bit of a gamble because you are in effect playing with money to make more money, and it can go both ways.

But you have to ask yourself, how do you see it differently to gaming in a casino ?

Another few factors to look at at any job/industry is to try and picture yourself in the whole global circle that gets affected.

Let's say you are A, and you get your money from B via C. Then you have to look at it from a birds eye view to see how B gets from C,D,E,...etc...and how C may influence or affect anyone else like C,D,E,F..etc...

Then if you can't see anyone losing out or being betrayed/double crossed or taken advantage of in a sequence of events, then you may understand and see if your contribution is entirely honest AND giving an honest outcome to ALL

Sadly, I see a lot of ''Blind' dishonesty happening when people don't even realize through pure ignorance.

It's important that you try your best not to affect anyone's emotions in a negative way., and being in a competitive trade can be a huge challenge for this.

Especially when you end up undercutting and winning the other persons trade all under the simple banner of 'competition'. But if the other 3rd party ends up totally screwed and has to re-evaluate their whole life and family because of this loss, then you have to ask yourself '' Was it in all fairness, did I do it without any negative repercussions in mind for 3rd party, were my intentions all purely positive for everyone as a whole or just myself ??...........''

[ssinghuk]

Great comments from both users preceding this post.

Just my pennies worth, but please ensure you are taking out daswand and if possible more than the allocated 10%.

[Guest Guest]

A brilliant saaki relating to kirat karo is the one where Guru Nanak Dev ji was invite by a rich man for a meal. Guru ji rejected the rich mans invitation and instead went had a meal with a very poor carpenter. The rich man was very offended as Guru ji rejected his luxurious meal for a simple dry chapatti meal. So what he did he came to Guru ji and furiously asked why he did this ?

To show a practical explanation Guru ji asked the rich man and poor man to both bring their meals. So they did. Guru ji took a chapatti from the rich man and the dry chapatti from the poor man and squeezed them bith . From the rich mans chapatti blood dripped out and from the poor's milk dripped.

Guru ji explained that the problem was not that the rich man was wealthy as Sikhism does not restrict Sikhs from being successful, the problem was that the rich man had earned his money by exploiting his labourers, overcharging people and by other selfish means. Whereas the poor mans earning was pure like milk as he worked hard and had a honest living. Everything he errant was all from his very own hard work.

So this teaches us that maharaj is not saying don't be rich or get to the top jobs but instead he is explaining that whatever job you do make sure you do it honestly because dishonest money will not bring you true happiness or closer to the almighty lord. What it will do is make you greedy and eventually you will fall in the trap of maya.

And yes! Daswand is so important because maya is like a running river if you use it for good the iver remains clean and flowing but if you bcome greedy and start stacking it up the river will not flow easily instead there will be obstacles. Also a good idea is to take out your daswand as you go along because many mahapursh's emphasise that if you get lazy and think ill take it out next month or later etc its very likely that you either forget or just don't end up taking it out. Daswand should be a common part of our life.

Lastly I would like to add that its very important that we as Sikhs give a good representation of ourselves because we are not individuals we have the saroop and the surname of Guru Gobind Singh Ji (singh/kaur) attached to us and we have to make sure that in everything we do we don't not want to create a bad reputation for it.

[singhbj singh]

In Sikhi we are taught "Kirit Karni" making an honest living. I trade markets such as oil, gold, currencies, etc. and am profitable. I do not gamble as it's a complete business, and with proper risk control and system, it is very rewarding business. I was talking to my old economic teacher today and told him about the 3 Pillars of Sikhi and mentioned "Kirit Karni". He said trading is not of much an honest living. From the sangats view, do you think investing/trading is an honest living?

Investing in stock, commodity & financial market for medium & long term is ok.

If you are thinking about earning your daily bread & butter from it then no.

Reason, to buy-sell on daily basis is gambling & you need Inside information which is not legal & ethical.

[Guest Guest]

Investing in stock, commodity & financial market for medium & long term is ok.

If you are thinking about earning your daily bread & butter from it then no.

Reason, to buy-sell on daily basis is gambling & you need Inside information which is not legal & ethical.

Gambling is when you have the odds against you. I use Technical Analysis so that I have an edge. Before I trade, I have already planned the amount I can risk to lose. It's gambling if you trade it as Casino.

Great comments from both users preceding this post.

Just my pennies worth, but please ensure you are taking out daswand and if possible more than the allocated 10%.

I do take out the daswand.

Many factors come into play in this question.

Firstly, your boss stating that there is not much honesty in trading, gives an idea of what his intentions are and where his limitations would be.

Maybe he has the idea that if you want to reach the sky, then rules may need breaking and honesty may not be kept fully.

Therefore, One factor is that you have to ask yourself what your honest intentions are to succeed and up to which point you don't cross the line.

Trading is a bit of a gamble because you are in effect playing with money to make more money, and it can go both ways.

But you have to ask yourself, how do you see it differently to gaming in a casino ?

Another few factors to look at at any job/industry is to try and picture yourself in the whole global circle that gets affected.

Let's say you are A, and you get your money from B via C. Then you have to look at it from a birds eye view to see how B gets from C,D,E,...etc...and how C may influence or affect anyone else like C,D,E,F..etc...

Then if you can't see anyone losing out or being betrayed/double crossed or taken advantage of in a sequence of events, then you may understand and see if your contribution is entirely honest AND giving an honest outcome to ALL

Sadly, I see a lot of ''Blind' dishonesty happening when people don't even realize through pure ignorance.

It's important that you try your best not to affect anyone's emotions in a negative way., and being in a competitive trade can be a huge challenge for this.

Especially when you end up undercutting and winning the other persons trade all under the simple banner of 'competition'. But if the other 3rd party ends up totally screwed and has to re-evaluate their whole life and family because of this loss, then you have to ask yourself '' Was it in all fairness, did I do it without any negative repercussions in mind for 3rd party, were my intentions all purely positive for everyone as a whole or just myself ??...........''

I don't have a boss. He was my old Economics teacher from school.

[Guest willy hillnot]

Gambling is when you have the odds against you.

I use Technical Analysis so that I have an edge. Before I trade, I have already planned the amount I can risk to lose. It's gambling if you trade it as Casino

I'm afraid it's still gambling.

You are just trying to differentiate and justify the mentioned trading. But it's still the same principle of playing against some odds.

Only difference is that casino and placing money on games is seen as entertainment. Trading like you mention above is seen as a livelihood.

Doesn't matter if you think you smart and using technical edge.......just another excuse!

and NO, the odds are no more against you compared to your trading. It just depends how you play casino money because people with big bankrolls can afford to cumulatively bet and have better chances of getting a positive outcome. It's like they bet $1, then lose it so double the bet and so on until they win all the money back in previous bets !

the famous actor Don Johnson has cleared out casinos using this strategy but you need the bankroll behind you JUST LIKE in YOUR trading !

[singhbj singh]

I'm afraid it's still gambling.

You are just trying to differentiate and justify the mentioned trading. But it's still the same principle of playing against some odds.

Only difference is that casino and placing money on games is seen as entertainment. Trading like you mention above is seen as a livelihood.

Doesn't matter if you think you smart and using technical edge.......just another excuse!

and NO, the odds are no more against you compared to your trading. It just depends how you play casino money because people with big bankrolls can afford to cumulatively bet and have better chances of getting a positive outcome. It's like they bet $1, then lose it so double the bet and so on until they win all the money back in previous bets !

the famous actor Don Johnson has cleared out casinos using this strategy but you need the bankroll behind you JUST LIKE in YOUR trading !

So Very True.

The only difference is that in Trading you can 'Hedge'