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Ex Sikh Questioning Gurbani


Nalwa
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I am getting so many questions from a person who claims to be ex Sikh on Gurbani , please help me to answer him .

His first question is :

pg 469 granth sahib . The Way of the Khshatriya is the Way of bravery; the Way of the Shudras is service to others
granth shaib tell KHASTIYA WAY IS BRAVERY AND SHUDRA SHOULD SERVE OTHERS
granth shaib talks about caste and tell shudras should service others
granth shaib pg 487 call KABIR family lowly...A weaver from a lowly family, he became an ocean of excellence. ||1
granth shaib also call DHANA- JAT not sikh pg 488..Hearing this, Dhanna the Jaat applied himself to devotional worship.

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Pray Truth for all and say Sat Sri Akaal.
Dear all and Nalwa jee,

We all are sent down to earth as separated from God.
All casts are down (neech) as these differentiate and separate us from God.

It is the true Naam Simran that makes us aware of merging in HIM again.

On page 469, the Vaaks you referred, are very precious.

जोग सबदं गिआन सबदं बेद सबदं ब्राहमणह ॥

Jog sabdaN giyaan sabadN bed sabdaN BrahmaRaha.

खत्री सबदं सूर सबदं सूद्र सबदं परा क्रितह ॥

khatree sabdaN soor sabdaN soodra sabdaN paraa kritaha.

सरब सबदं एक सबदं जे को जाणै भेउ ॥

sarab sabdaN ayk sabdaN je ko jaaRai bheo.

नानकु ता का दासु है सोई निरंजन देउ ॥३॥

naanak taa kaa daas hai soee niranjan deo.3.

Gurdev is saying those words of jog, Giyaan and Veda by Brahmins,
the words of Khatri, Soor and Sudra are other activities.
(The Essence of ) all word is One Sabad. Someone if knows this secret.
Naanak His Daas is, Himself the Niranjan Deo.

On page 487 Guru Arjan Dev jee is singing.

नीच कुला जोलाहरा भइओ गुनीय गहीरा ॥१॥

neech kulaa jolaaharaa bhaio guneeya gaheeraa.1.

Kabeer jee is one such Bhagat. Coming down in the kula of a weaver. He became the recipient of virtues.

On page 488 Gurdev is singing.

इह बिधि सुनि कै जाटरो उठि भगती लागा ॥

ih bidhi suni kai jaaTro uthi bhagatee laagaa.

Hearing this technique, the Jaat got initiation in worship.

Balbir Singh

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I am getting so many questions from a person who claims to be ex Sikh on Gurbani , please help me to answer him .

His first question is :

pg 469 granth sahib . The Way of the Khshatriya is the Way of bravery; the Way of the Shudras is service to others

granth shaib tell KHASTIYA WAY IS BRAVERY AND SHUDRA SHOULD SERVE OTHERS

granth shaib talks about caste and tell shudras should service others

granth shaib pg 487 call KABIR family lowly...A weaver from a lowly family, he became an ocean of excellence. ||1

granth shaib also call DHANA- JAT not sikh pg 488..Hearing this, Dhanna the Jaat applied himself to devotional worship.

that guy is talking nonsense , the lines he quoting from Ang 487 /488 is from Shabad by Bhagat Dhanna ji , stating that the Bhagats which hailed from the so called low castes rose in social status due to bhakti , and taking inspiration from these ( KABIR JI , RAVIDAAS JI , NAMDEV JI ) Dhanna also started bhagti and attained the desired goal The reason you raised question is , We have not read and imbibed the sense of Gurbani , had you read the whole shabad , you would have been able to make suitable reply on the spot . meaning that for Waheguru, man made system caste has no relevence

for Ang 469 what Guru Sahib Says is quoted out of reference please read the full verse from Jog sabdang gian Sabadang , bed sabadang brahmahah ---- to Nanak ta ka daas hai soi niranjan dev.Again , Bro you have not read so you are not able to understand and reply whereas that guy is quoting single lines and distortingg the full meaning to 180degree

My request is , please read and understand gurbani by sparing some time

Fateh

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  • 3 weeks later...

Whoever your friend or this person is, is just taking one line or a few words of a shabad. There is a whole verse to understand not just a few lines. Calling Bhagat Dhana Jee Jatt, is just for reference as that how is was known as. Its like we dont refer to Maharaja Ranjeet Singh as just Ranjeet Singh or Soocha Soorma. Even now people who are not following Sikhi or dont know much Sikh history will refer to Bhagat Jee as Dhana Jatt.

You say this person is an ex-Sikh I am curious to know has this person commence following another path or has become an atheiest.

I remember in Univsersity a person who claimed he was Sikh had become an Muslim, unfortunately he grew up in a prodominately Muslim area so never had any Sikh friends or sangat. When I answered all his questions and even gave him a book called 'a Challenge to Sikhism' (great book by the way) instead of accepting the answers to his questions in the book he went to the Muslims to get their version and understanding of Sikh history and scriptures even though he claimed he wanted to learn Sikhi and our history.

I found this bizzare if you want to learn Sikhi go to Sikhs not Muslims they wont have nothing too good to say about it. Thats like going to Hindus to learn Chirstainity. Poor banda was confused and had a sense of belonging in the area he grew up in.

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that guy is talking nonsense , the lines he quoting from Ang 487 /488 is from Shabad by Bhagat Dhanna ji , stating that the Bhagats which hailed from the so called low castes rose in social status due to bhakti , and taking inspiration from these ( KABIR JI , RAVIDAAS JI , NAMDEV JI ) Dhanna also started bhagti and attained the desired goal The reason you raised question is , We have not read and imbibed the sense of Gurbani , had you read the whole shabad , you would have been able to make suitable reply on the spot . meaning that for Waheguru, man made system caste has no relevence

for Ang 469 what Guru Sahib Says is quoted out of reference please read the full verse from Jog sabdang gian Sabadang , bed sabadang brahmahah ---- to Nanak ta ka daas hai soi niranjan dev.Again , Bro you have not read so you are not able to understand and reply whereas that guy is quoting single lines and distortingg the full meaning to 180degree

My request is , please read and understand gurbani by sparing some time

Fateh

I agree veer ji i have no knowledge of Gurbani , can you suggest some books which can help not only understanding Gurmat but also to answer counter questions on Sikhi and Gurmat .

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Whoever your friend or this person is, is just taking one line or a few words of a shabad. There is a whole verse to understand not just a few lines. Calling Bhagat Dhana Jee Jatt, is just for reference as that how is was known as. Its like we dont refer to Maharaja Ranjeet Singh as just Ranjeet Singh or Soocha Soorma. Even now people who are not following Sikhi or dont know much Sikh history will refer to Bhagat Jee as Dhana Jatt.

You say this person is an ex-Sikh I am curious to know has this person commence following another path or has become an atheiest.

I remember in Univsersity a person who claimed he was Sikh had become an Muslim, unfortunately he grew up in a prodominately Muslim area so never had any Sikh friends or sangat. When I answered all his questions and even gave him a book called 'a Challenge to Sikhism' (great book by the way) instead of accepting the answers to his questions in the book he went to the Muslims to get their version and understanding of Sikh history and scriptures even though he claimed he wanted to learn Sikhi and our history.

I found this bizzare if you want to learn Sikhi go to Sikhs not Muslims they wont have nothing too good to say about it. Thats like going to Hindus to learn Chirstainity. Poor banda was confused and had a sense of belonging in the area he grew up in.

Who is the writer of Challenge to Sikhism ? Is this book available online.

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Caste is a british term for two separate things.

There is varna a man made or bramin made system

and Jaat.

Two different things, in actuality if a bhagat bani is part of guru word then he is being given place ofbrahmgyani or bramin.

Sikhi abolished giving spirtual position by birth, and only recognizes actions.

Jaat is a totallty different thing and much of the reform movement was initiated by the minorities of Sikhi. Overall it is a clan system and was recognized by the gurus as seen above and in Bachittar Natak.

I won't say anymore, because most people here 'believe' different. I'll ask a question though,

Guru Sahib made all Khalsa Surya Vanshi. Yet, at the same time the vast majority of Sikhs already were by blood.

Certain things resonate amongst certain people and cultures. If you are already a Sikh, it's not really relevant to you.

If you were born into a Sikh family, and 'left' it in a way you left your man-hood.

That's all I have to say,

ਖਾਲਿਸਤਾਨ ਜ਼ਿੰਦਾਬਾਦ | ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ | ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਹਿ | |

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I can not remember the author, I just googled it and unfortunately can not see it up. I think it was printed by an East London Guruduara Sahib (Either Neville Road or Rosebury Avenue) It was letters back and forth between a Muslim gentleman and a Sikh gentleman. It shows the arguments Muslims attempt to use along with their scholars mis-using and misquoting gurbani/Sikh history and the letters from the Sikh gentleman displays the actual context and of the questioning at hand; further how their attempt on questioning Sikhi is contradiciting themselves and should apply the question they pose on Sikhi on themselves. Great book and a must read for all college and uni Sikhs to apply knowledge during this time. Maybe some other veer/phens would know about it on how to get hold of it.

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  • 7 years later...
On 4/15/2014 at 11:33 PM, jasvendrasingh said:

that guy is talking nonsense , the lines he quoting from Ang 487 /488 is from Shabad by Bhagat Dhanna ji , stating that the Bhagats which hailed from the so called low castes rose in social status due to bhakti , and taking inspiration from these ( KABIR JI , RAVIDAAS JI , NAMDEV JI ) Dhanna also started bhagti and attained the desired goal The reason you raised question is , We have not read and imbibed the sense of Gurbani , had you read the whole shabad , you would have been able to make suitable reply on the spot . meaning that for Waheguru, man made system caste has no relevence

 

for Ang 469 what Guru Sahib Says is quoted out of reference please read the full verse from Jog sabdang gian Sabadang , bed sabadang brahmahah ---- to Nanak ta ka daas hai soi niranjan dev.Again , Bro you have not read so you are not able to understand and reply whereas that guy is quoting single lines and distortingg the full meaning to 180degree

 

My request is , please read and understand gurbani by sparing some time

 

Fateh

This is a good explanation.

 

If one ever gets caught up in these types of confrontations, look at the whole shabad and try and understand what message is trying to be conveyed.

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