Idol Worshipping, Worshipping Other Than God And Sikh Channels

[MrDoaba]

43 minutes ago, Thanatos said:

the amount of double meanings in some words is amazing (not in a bad way obviously) but they can pretty much open your eyes. 

Vaheguru and Gurbani are beant.....

[MrDoaba]

@Preeet

From where did you copy the lines you used earlier? The ones to support your argument.

[Thanatos]

1 hour ago, Preeet said:

You are the one misinterprating it.. All those attributes given to Sri Ganesh ji have been given to him even before our religion existed, and it will always be a symbol of him if it specifically says 'son of parvati' and 'master of shiva's servents'. He is even married to Sri Riddhi/Siddhi Devis. Next it EVEN says that he is the 'one toothed, face of an Elephant', I mean seriously, what more proof do you need? Can you tell me what one toothed means then? And even elephant faced? You are the one misinterprating it.. All those attributes given to Sri Ganesh ji have been given to him even before our religion existed, and it will always be a symbol of him if it specifically says 'son of parvati' and 'master of shiva's servents'. He is even married to Sri Riddhi/Siddhi Deviya jis. Next it EVEN says that he is the 'one toothed, face of an Elephant', I mean seriously, what more proof do you need? Can you tell me what one toothed means then? And even elephant faced? Clearly you do not understand the sarguna aspect of God. Those lines of Bhagat Kabir ji are an ustat to God in nirguna aspect, it is nothing different to have an ustat as such. You haven't even answered my question about: "Clearly you are stuck in dvaita instead of advaita.. There is not 2, only 1. That 1 is including all of us. How can something exist without God? Is there something other than God that is doing something on it's own? The answer is no. Until you realize this you will be left arguing with the world.".  Bhull chukh maff kijye.

 

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ॥
सिरीरागु ॥
Sirīrāg. Sree Raag:
ਤੋਹੀ ਮੋਹੀ ਮੋਹੀ ਤੋਹੀ ਅੰਤਰੁ ਕੈਸਾ ॥
तोही मोही मोही तोही अंतरु कैसा ॥
Ŧohī mohī mohī ṯohī anṯar kaisā.
You are me, and I am You-what is the difference between us?

ਕਨਕ ਕਟਿਕ ਜਲ ਤਰੰਗ ਜੈਸਾ ॥੧॥
कनक कटिक जल तरंग जैसा ॥१॥
Kanak katik jal ṯarang jaisā. ||1||
We are like gold and the bracelet, or water and the waves. ||1||

"Who is it that loves and who that suffers? He alone stages a play with Himself; who exists save Him? The individual suffers because he perceives duality. It is duality which causes all sorrow and grief. Find the One everywhere and in everything and there will be an end to pain and suffering."

Clearly, you are stuck in dualty. This is why you have such a problem regarding talking about things like this.

ਸਬਦਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਸੋ ਮਿਲਿ ਰਹੈ ਜਿਸ ਨਉ ਆਪੇ ਲਏ ਮਿਲਾਇ ॥
सबदि मिलै सो मिलि रहै जिस नउ आपे लए मिलाइ ॥
Sabaḏ milai so mil rahai jis na▫o āpe la▫e milā▫e.
One whom the Lord merges into Himself is merged in the Shabad, and remains so merged.

ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ ਕੋ ਨਾ ਮਿਲੈ ਫਿਰਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇ ॥
दूजै भाइ को ना मिलै फिरि फिरि आवै जाइ ॥
Ḏūjai bẖā▫e ko nā milai fir fir āvai jā▫e.
No one merges with Him through the love of duality; over and over again, they come and go in reincarnation.

ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਇਕੁ ਵਰਤਦਾ ਏਕੋ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਮਾਇ ॥
सभ महि इकु वरतदा एको रहिआ समाइ ॥
Sabẖ mėh ik varaṯḏā eko rahi▫ā samā▫e.
The One Lord permeates all. The One Lord is pervading everywhere.

ਜਿਸ ਨਉ ਆਪਿ ਦਇਆਲੁ ਹੋਇ ਸੋ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੨॥
जिस नउ आपि दइआलु होइ सो गुरमुखि नामि समाइ ॥२॥
Jis na▫o āp ḏa▫i▫āl ho▫e so gurmukẖ nām samā▫e. ||2||
That Gurmukh, unto whom the Lord shows His Kindness, is absorbed in the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||2||

No one is going to bother with you, If you want to worship them. Then go ahead, the fact that "son of parvati" line is missing from the gurmukhi is another sign you have no idea what you're talking about. Did you even watch the video I posted? nope because if you had you wouldn't be spewing crap from your own manmat. Did you disregard the words of a Mahapurkh. Yes you did (this is a book he wrote btw). 

 

I don't need to answer it because I already did indirectly, but either you refuse to accept it or you scrapped it under the rug. The Gurmukhi of Bhagat Kabir is telling us to make the distinction <-- do you see that word? do you want to google it? Do you want the Gurmukhi. If your mind can't accept its telling us you're purposely trying to encourage the worship of these deities. 

I had to laugh at the "before our religion for the symbolism" part. What a load of tosh, Sikhi is eternal. Yet you seem to know more.

 

Yes I actually can. The word is Radan, which isnt tooth, its plural so teeth. Another meaning of it is splitting, Gaj badan, gaj can also mean positive attributes badan= increase.Put it all together and

 

ਏਕ ਰਦਨ ਗਜ ਬਦਨ ਸਦਨ ਗੌਰੀ ਸੁਖ ਨੰਦਨ ॥
 

The one split into many positive attributes and from there comes ever lasting Beautiful peace.

 

Rather than screaming im lost in duality, don't masquerade as though you are not. You're constantly trying to tell people its fine its to worship the Devi/Devta, the fact that Bhai Mani Singh Ji and Bhai Sahib Bhai Randir Singh Ji's words mean nothing to you is proof enough for anyone you consider your opinion above all. Clearly you don't understand it, if you did you wouldn't sit here strutting like a peacock about how you know it all. Watch the Videos I linked, Unless you think you're too good for Gyanis who spent years gaining knowledge of not only Gurbani but also Vedic scriptures. You wont because it hurts your ego.

 

Good day~ 

 

 

P.S - rather telling me im lost in duality, maybe explore the concepts instead of misinterpreting them so we can venerate the Devi/Devta you get oh so riled up about, pretty funny how you seem to get so frustrated annoyed when someone speaks against them.

 

 

 

 

[Thanatos]

38 minutes ago, MrDoaba said:

@Preeet

From where did you copy the lines you used earlier? The ones to support your argument.

She got them from Sarbolh Granth. If you want quotes to encourage Sikhs to pooj dem Devi/Devta. She's the person to go to.

[Akalifauj]

17 minutes ago, Thanatos said:

She got them from Sarbolh Granth. If you want quotes to encourage Sikhs to pooj dem Devi/Devta. She's the person to go to.

Here she goes again trying to get Sikhs to worship Devi and devta.  She isolates lines.  I asked her to do line by line interpretation in the past of full shabads and she couldn't.  

 

[MrDoaba]

@Preeet

I have a benti. Could you please give me the telephone number of your Vidya Gurdev who has given you Santhiya of Sri Sarbloh Granth Ji? I have a query or ten for him.

Given you are quoting Sri Sarbloh Granth Ji, I would like to congratulate on your completion of your Santhiya of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji. I had no idea!

Thanks in advance.

P.S. Say for the sake of argument you have convinced us that we should worship Ganesh Ji. I would be grateful if you could teach us the method of worshipping Ganesh Ji. Your continued usage of the word "worship" has piqued my curiosity.

[jkvlondon]

11 hours ago, MrDoaba said:

@Thanatos@Preeet

A polite request, please do not be overly rigid or black and white in your interpretations.

The word worship in a western sense is quite narrow whereas from an Indic viewpoint it has numerous meanings. An act a follower of an Eastern school of thought does would easily be considered as worship by western/orientalist standards, where as the follower them self would not consider it worship, by their own standards.

Thanatos Ji I understand the respect you have for Sants...I also see you have quoted Bhai Randhir Singh; AKJ aren’t exactly lovers of DG so I wouldn’t be too quick to quote them.

And we shouldn’t be saying who is or isn’t a fully fledged GurSikh, thats not really up to us. With this kind of thinking you would be marginalising a large number of Sikhs, especially those from traditional Sampardas.

Preet, I must say your Jai Mata Di comment is rather silly. Jai Mata Di exclusively refers to the physical manifestations of Devi by those who use this greeting, not the Jag Mata referred to in Bani.

Thanatos you seem to have a great aversion to Devi/Devte whereas Preet you seem to have a great affinity. Find some middle ground.

E.g. Please contemplate what you would do if Sri Krishan Ji Bhagwan graced you with their Darshan? Would you show them the front door or become their Bhagat for life?

Hint: The answer is neither but try and contemplate it optimistically and you’ll have your answer.

Vaheguru.

AKJ aren't pro dasam Granth ???? why don't you keep your poison to yourself ...All the Akj singhs and singhnian I have ever meet in my 47 years  have not only read, sung and trusted Dasam Pita ji di bani they have been forward in the support of pro DG folks .   Preet is and will always try to justify her Sikhi is hindu really stance , to the extent she will wilfuly misuse gurbani to belittle their message to make it seem pro devi devta pooja. If you read the lacchan of these 'avtars' and 'gods' they are full of faults that seem more human than qualities that are more akin to Akal Purakh- prone to irka, kaam, lying, tricking, shunning, even some raping (Indra) ;are these the kind of people you want to lead you??

[MrDoaba]

13 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

AKJ aren't pro dasam Granth ???? why don't you keep your poison to yourself ...All the Akj singhs and singhnian I have ever meet in my 47 years  have not only read, sung and trusted Dasam Pita ji di bani they have been forward in the support of pro DG folks .   Preet is and will always try to justify her Sikhi is hindu really stance , to the extent she will wilfuly misuse gurbani to belittle their message to make it seem pro devi devta pooja. If you read the lacchan of these 'avtars' and 'gods' they are full of faults that seem more human than qualities that are more akin to Akal Purakh- prone to irka, kaam, lying, tricking, shunning, even some raping (Indra) ;are these the kind of people you want to lead you??

Phen Ji it isn’t poison. Just because in your experience you’ve only met AKJ Singhs and Singhnian who have read, sung, and trusted Dasam Bani, not everyone has had your pavitar experience. I can agree many AKJ accept some parts of Dasam Bani but the majority sadly do not accept DG in its entirety.

Maybe you’ve been lucky enough to have had Sangat with some older AKJ members.

Out of respect for you I’ll keep my views about AKJ to myself whatever they may be.

[MrDoaba]

10 minutes ago, Preeet said:

You are essentially already worshiping Sri Ganesh ji by worshiping Sri Paramatman Sahib ji.. If you pay respect to God, in any form, then you are respecting all aspects already.

So why do you feel the need to use specific quotes regarding individual Devi-Devte? And please re-read what I wrote about worshipping! The reply you just made to me should have been the reply to the OP.

And for future reference I will politely ask you to refrain from quoting Sri Sarbloh Granth Ji, it is not for aam janta like us. It is for Chardi Kala GurSikhs with the most uchi suchi Jeevan. Only those who have had Santhiya of SGGS and DG should even mention Sri Sarbloh Granth Ji by name let alone quote it to a jigyasu.

[MrDoaba]

3 minutes ago, Preeet said:

You can say what you want, but I'd just be repeating myself. & believe me, I am not frustrated in any way over this, if I was then I wouldn't have had replied from the beginning. God themselves came down as Sri Krishna ji for sure, and it is clear that you do not believe in advaita. Until you have kirpa on yourself due to your karmas then you will only understand what these sants are trying to say.

 

From the way you've articulated this point it seems you do not exactly have a deep understanding of yourself. I'm not saying I do, hell no, so thats why I wouldn't go around presenting it as evidence. Avtaarvaad is a very complicated subject. And I seriously don't think thats how God manifests into Sargun, thats bordering on fairy tales. I'm by no means an expert of Advait but I can say with some certainty that isn't how Avtaars Prakaash, it doesn't really fit in with the idea of it all.