What Is The Reason Of Increasing Patitpuna In Younger Generation Of Sikhs?

[BarinderSingh]

Yes it would hurt not to see a turban on fellow Sikh brothers but in a way if its inevitable if its in waheguru ji's plan and hakum then there is nothing we can stop it... we can delay it by forcing Sikhs either wear turban or dont claim to be Sikh and then even more will run away from sikhi and sikhi will be in a worse condition than Zoroastrian population is now.

To keep kesh for a non-amritdhari khalsa Sikh ....it is....

It is optional it is optional it is optional..

Show me where in SGGS Ji it says it is mandatory?

Sikhi has Guru Panth and Guru Granth. Let me know if you believe in Guru Panth, meaning beleiving any spoken or written words outside of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.

[BarinderSingh]

Yes it would hurt not to see a turban on fellow Sikh brothers but in a way if its inevitable if its in waheguru ji's plan and hakum then there is nothing we can stop it... we can delay it by forcing Sikhs either wear turban or dont claim to be Sikh and then even more will run away from sikhi and sikhi will be in a worse condition than Zoroastrian population is now.

To keep kesh for a non-amritdhari khalsa Sikh ....it is....

It is optional it is optional it is optional..

Show me where in SGGS Ji it says it is mandatory?

You speak of pre marital sex as wrong in one of your last post. Tell me where in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji says pre marital sex is wrong? It is optional just like cutting hair right!

[cool water]

Sikhi has Guru Panth and Guru Granth. Let me know if you believe in Guru Panth, meaning beleiving any spoken or written words outside of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.

I follow Guru Granth I respect Guru Khalsa Panth but believe it is up to the individual Sikh to decide if they want to follow Guru Khalsa Panth. The KhalsaPanth path is very hard in an increasingly hostile westernised society to eastern dharmic faiths and communities... so again we come back to the point why youth are not taking this path....now we have reasons why..... but some of us are not willing to accept....those who are not willing to accept the reasons will cry because they could not see the future trends they instead tried to emtionally bash and force unwilling youth to become khalsa's but the youth are rebellious and will not take up something they dont think benefits them......

we must understand Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is supreme its teachings and wisdom is universal......this is how we can bring the youth back into Sikhi and bring converts too...

The Guru Khalsa panth path is divisionary and only a select learned few should take that path because they need first to have gyan of sikhi and they can foster the martial spirit of a soldier.

You speak of pre marital sex as wrong in one of your last post. Tell me where in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji says pre marital sex is wrong? It is optional just like cutting hair right!

There are many references in SGGS Ji that imply one should not focus on lust and not indulge in their sexual urges...

pre-martial sex is wrong according to Sikh / indian traditions and culture...in SGGS Ji I dont think there is a specific reference to my knowledge. And I did not state SGGS Ji says pre-marital sex is wrong.

I asked for you to show me where it is mandatory for someone to keep uncut hair in SGGS Ji ...and so far you have been unable to do so.

[kharkusingh1996]

I get the impression most of you don't know how bad today's 'older generation' were when they were young. Today's young generation of Sikhs are saints and monks in comparison from a moral point of view. For example, during my grandfathers time the old Havelock Road Gurdwara in Southall in the early 1970's was where the men would sit in the langar hall (which was an outside tent back then) with bottles of whiskey on Sunday late afternoons. Opium, gambling, extra marital affairs etc........things are so much better these days. Young Sikhs are so much more moral these day than they used to be.

hm I don't know about that with the situation of how many Sikhs now days are marrying outside of marriage, not following Sikhi, involved in pre-martial sex, I'd say this generation is worse.

[BarinderSingh]

I follow Guru Granth I respect Guru Khalsa Panth but believe it is up to the individual Sikh to decide if they want to follow Guru Khalsa Panth. The KhalsaPanth path is very hard in an increasingly hostile westernised society to eastern dharmic faiths and communities... so again we come back to the point why youth are not taking this path....now we have reasons why..... but some of us are not willing to accept....those who are not willing to accept the reasons will cry because they could not see the future trends they instead tried to emtionally bash and force unwilling youth to become khalsa's but the youth are rebellious and will not take up something they dont think benefits them......

we must understand Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is supreme its teachings and wisdom is universal......this is how we can bring the youth back into Sikhi and bring converts too...

The Guru Khalsa panth path is divisionary and only a select learned few should take that path because they need first to have gyan of sikhi and they can foster the martial spirit of a soldier.

There are many references in SGGS Ji that imply one should not focus on lust and not indulge in their sexual urges...

pre-martial sex is wrong according to Sikh / indian traditions and culture...in SGGS Ji I dont think there is a specific reference to my knowledge. And I did not state SGGS Ji says pre-marital sex is wrong.

I asked for you to show me where it is mandatory for someone to keep uncut hair in SGGS Ji ...and so far you have been unable to do so.

So you say hair is optional because following Guru Panth is very hard in todays day and age and you want to pick and choose what fits your lifestyle. Yet you say pre-marital sex is wrong according to Sikh/Indian traditions and cultures. Do you know how many youth are having pre-marital sex today? You are your worst enemy. Telling these youth that pre-marital sex is wrong will only make them more rebellious and they won't want to follow Sikhi. Stop shoving down dogma down their throats and let them live. :nono:

There are many references in SGGS Ji that imply one should not focus on lust and not indulge in their sexual urges..

What does this have to do with pre-marital sex? I can say the same, do you know how many times Gurbani says to follow the instructions of the Guru. One of these instructions for a Sikh is to keep hair uncut and was never made an option.

Yet you say pre-marital sex is wrong according to Sikh/Indian traditions and cultures.

Indian culture has nothing to do with Sikhi. So you respect Guru Panth, but follow Indian culture and traditions?

Sikhi is made from Guru Panth and Guru Granth. Picking and choosing is not following Guru Granth Sahib ji. Gurbani specifically and repeatedly says to follow the Guru's path. Discriminating against Gurbani in Sri Dasam Granth is the job of the ignorant. Sikhs don't discriminate against Gurbani (Hukam).

If a person listens to Gurbani carefully you will hear only Hukams from the Guru. The bells start going off. All of Gurbani is a Hukam. In these Hukams there are explanations that go along with them. When Gurbani says don't discriminate against Guru. It does not mean to pick Guru Nanak Dev ji because he had a bigger nose over Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji or should i say smaller nose since smaller noses are more attractive today. It means see the message as one and the same. Keeping hair uncut has been a Hukam given by the first Guru. Point to one Sikh that was given Charan di Pahul and did not have uncut hair? If before 1699 there was no Hukam to keep hair uncut, then why wasn't one of the Punj Pyare with cut hair? This was no coincidence they all had uncut hair. Bhai Mati Das and Sati Das both had uncut hair.

pre-marital sex and cutting hair are equally wrong. Everyone likes to indulge in the devils acts. Just don't make your devilish acts seem less evil than others.

[dasamdwar]

Yeah that's true! Me myself I who belongs to a gursikh family kept my hair on my head but still continued to remove other hair! Pata ni kyu, as a girl you just genuinely get this feeling that as long as your keeping the hair on your head, its not that bad if you remove other hair which I've finally accepted it TOTALLY WRONG! :stupidme: I suppose girls have more pressure put on them by society to look good, I mean majority of men turn their face away from 'hairy' girls or its seen as very funny if a girl has a tiny bit of extra hair. I deeply have so much respect of these Sikh women who stand up to society and are proud of the extra bit of hair they have. The bibiyan pehna who are lucky like me that don't have much facial hair anyway have no excuse!

And the make up !!! I think that's partly because of the elder women in our families as they'll be like "thora jeha lah la, surki bindi, mooh chajj da lagu" and this will be said EVEN IF YOUR AMRITDAHRI i mean what happened to NATURAL BEAUTY LOL :lol:

Salwaar suits are loosing the battle against the western mini skirts or jeans which i cant undertand why because i think salwaar suits are amazing!

Totally understand where you coming from:)

[cool water]

So you say hair is optional because following Guru Panth is very hard in todays day and age and you want to pick and choose what fits your lifestyle. Yet you say pre-marital sex is wrong according to Sikh/Indian traditions and cultures. Do you know how many youth are having pre-marital sex today? You are your worst enemy. Telling these youth that pre-marital sex is wrong will only make them more rebellious and they won't want to follow Sikhi. Stop shoving down dogma down their throats and let them live. :nono:

What does this have to do with pre-marital sex? I can say the same, do you know how many times Gurbani says to follow the instructions of the Guru. One of these instructions for a Sikh is to keep hair uncut and was never made an option.

Indian culture has nothing to do with Sikhi. So you respect Guru Panth, but follow Indian culture and traditions?

Sikhi is made from Guru Panth and Guru Granth. Picking and choosing is not following Guru Granth Sahib ji. Gurbani specifically and repeatedly says to follow the Guru's path. Discriminating against Gurbani in Sri Dasam Granth is the job of the ignorant. Sikhs don't discriminate against Gurbani (Hukam).

If a person listens to Gurbani carefully you will hear only Hukams from the Guru. The bells start going off. All of Gurbani is a Hukam. In these Hukams there are explanations that go along with them. When Gurbani says don't discriminate against Guru. It does not mean to pick Guru Nanak Dev ji because he had a bigger nose over Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji or should i say smaller nose since smaller noses are more attractive today. It means see the message as one and the same. Keeping hair uncut has been a Hukam given by the first Guru. Point to one Sikh that was given Charan di Pahul and did not have uncut hair? If before 1699 there was no Hukam to keep hair uncut, then why wasn't one of the Punj Pyare with cut hair? This was no coincidence they all had uncut hair. Bhai Mati Das and Sati Das both had uncut hair.

pre-marital sex and cutting hair are equally wrong. Everyone likes to indulge in the devils acts. Just don't make your devilish acts seem less evil than others.

I guess you too want to bury your head in the sand and not see what the coming future is going to be? You are living in the past... the future is already happening either Sikhi is taught the way it should be (ie develop love and understanding for SGGS Ji) or you will lose everything by pushing them to adopt khalsa saroop and panth on them, in which they will and are rebelling.

Your type of Sikh they the youth are not interested in.... they want something they can relate to and feels can benefit them..... how you going to offer them an advantage of keeping uncut hair when its not mandatory in the first place to be a Sikh? Did the hindu and muslim followers of guru nanak dev ji started to keep uncut hair? No they did not because if it was a mandetory rule he would have stated so in gurbani.....did the other guru's call for this uncut kesh rule in gurbani? no..... only Guru gobind singh ji did so for the khalsa panth..... a panth one had to be inciated into and would be the martial vanguard for Sikhs..... he didnt say ALL sikhs must now become khalsa or did he? did he force it upon them or give them free choice (ie those who want to become khalsa step forward?)

Come into reality or you and your type of Sikh will make sikhi hard to get in to and push it in decline when it is universal true and a very easy faith to follow.

[JSinghnz]

I guess you too want to bury your head in the sand and not see what the coming future is going to be? You are living in the past... the future is already happening either Sikhi is taught the way it should be (ie develop love and understanding for SGGS Ji) or you will lose everything by pushing them to adopt khalsa saroop and panth on them, in which they will and are rebelling.

Your type of Sikh they the youth are not interested in.... they want something they can relate to and feels can benefit them..... how you going to offer them an advantage of keeping uncut hair when its not mandatory in the first place to be a Sikh? Did the hindu and muslim followers of guru nanak dev ji started to keep uncut hair? No they did not because if it was a mandetory rule he would have stated so in gurbani.....did the other guru's call for this uncut kesh rule in gurbani? no..... only Guru gobind singh ji did so for the khalsa panth..... a panth one had to be inciated into and would be the martial vanguard for Sikhs..... he didnt say ALL sikhs must now become khalsa or did he? did he force it upon them or give them free choice (ie those who want to become khalsa step forward?)

Come into reality or you and your type of Sikh will make sikhi hard to get in to and push it in decline when it is universal true and a very easy faith to follow.

who are you to judge the Sikh youth. You have given detailed non sense which is incredulous and proves beyond any dought that you are not a Sikh.

you are trying to redefine the wheel by saying, "keeping uncut hair when its not mandatory in the first place to be a Sikh."

To give an answer to your non sense it is very important to understand what "patit" means in Sikhi context.

Sikh Rahit Maryddd approved by Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee in 1954 after prolonged deliberations, retains the above rules without specifically defining the term patit. Its legal definition as inserted in the Sikh Gurdwaras Act, 1925, through the amending Act XI of 1944 runs as below: "Patit means a person who being a Ke shdhari Sikh trims or shaves his beard or keshas or who after taking amrit commits any one or more of the four kurahits."

Patits choose to become patits because of number of reasons.

They are offsprings of patits and hence know nothing better than to become patits.

Demographic reasons carry no weight as Sikhs formed less than 15% of the then population when we had the Khalsa rule.

We became rulers not the stength of our numbers but our valour and bravery.

The youth have totally forgotten the sacrifices our Gurus and fore fathers gave for us.

It also a matter of lack of respect for our appearance and a deep rooted inferiority complex among our youth,

both girls and boys.

ONthe other hand, we have heaps of saabat soorat Sikhs who love our relegion

Sikhi will never disappear regardless of your negativity and derogratory remarks about our great relegion.

[cool water]

who are you to judge the Sikh youth. You have given detailed non sense which is incredulous and proves beyond any dought that you are not a Sikh.

Sikhi will never disappear regardless of your negativity and derogratory remarks about our great relegion.

First you ask the question, then you insult us when we speak up and then you throw wild accusations that im not a sikh when i'm actively promoting Sikhism unlike you and then you make some more crazy accusations....

You are the reason why youth are not interested.....and your type of Sikh will disappear because you belong in the past. Your thinking belongs in the past.... those who can see whats coming are getting ready to welcome Sikhs to the future ..... to make them love Sikhi rather than see the hateful negative side you and your kind show...

The new generations of Sikhs just need the right guidance and you are certainly not the type to give them it because for last 30-60 years your types have seen a net loss for Sikhi in all area's.... your types have forced many guy/girls to run away from sikhi and run off non-sikh guys/girls for relationships and become atheists or some other religion............now its time to new thinking.... new understanding of what the requirements of Sikhs are and how to address them.

All you offering is more of the same old and how far has that got you? hence your dilemma and question to the sangat....

[JSinghnz]

First you ask the question, then you insult us when we speak up and then you throw wild accusations that im not a sikh when i'm actively promoting Sikhism unlike you and then you make some more crazy accusations....

You are the reason why youth are not interested.....and your type of Sikh will disappear because you belong in the past. Your thinking belongs in the past.... those who can see whats coming are getting ready to welcome Sikhs to the future ..... to make them love Sikhi rather than see the hateful negative side you and your kind show...

The new generations of Sikhs just need the right guidance and you are certainly not the type to give them it because for last 30-60 years your types have seen a net loss for Sikhi in all area's.... your types have forced many guy/girls to run away from sikhi and run off non-sikh guys/girls for relationships and become atheists or some other religion............now its time to new thinking.... new understanding of what the requirements of Sikhs are and how to address them.

All you offering is more of the same old and how far has that got you? hence your dilemma and question to the sangat....

A net loss is of no concern to Sikhi.

We need quality and not quantity.

And quality will take us to what we were earlier- The rulers and not slaves.

Kings and not common people.

Lions and not sheep.

If you were a Sikh and promoting Sikhi you would not come out with such non sense.

So you need to relook at your ridiculous offering of calling "patits" Sikhs

and promoting more "patitpuna."