Learning The Vajja At Home!

[Cisco_Singh]

It makes it bad,

But where is it written that Vaaja cannot be used for kirtan? if one goes by the logic that it is not traditionally India, then so are many Indian instruments such as Sarangi, Sitar, Rabab which have their origins in the middle east/Central asia and came to India with Islamic invaders. Just because an instrument is european does not make it bad.

Yes I agree, the intstruments you speak of were introduced because they fit in with Raag Vidiya , different instruments accompany different Raags they are used to influence the different moods and emotions of the various shabads they accompany. What is bad is that all of this traditional Vidiya appears to have been lost and instead has been replaced largely by just the Vaaja and Tabla on kirtan stages, because maybe they are easier to learn. The effect is not the same, it is a discredit to Raag Vidiya and Kirtan to not have the correct instruements and knowledge of the accompanying Raags,.

[jkvlondon]

But where is it written that Vaaja cannot be used for kirtan? if one goes by the logic that it is not traditionally India, then so are many Indian instruments such as Sarangi, Sitar, Rabab which have their origins in the middle east/Central asia and came to India with Islamic invaders. Just because an instrument is european does not make it bad.

veer ji

you cannot replicate sikh raags properly on the harmonium for instance Shri raag which is one of the most used cannot be correct because the re note is incorrect thus raag is not correct thus naad of shabad is destroyed . Naad guru and Shabad guru make the true kirtan for us ...naad creates the emotion which enhances the pakard of the shabad into your hirda.

listen to

bhai Avtar Singh ji dhann so raag sorangeh on www.gurmatveechar.com volume 1 ...and see how different it makes you feel compared to aam kirtania vaaja kirtan

[jkvlondon]

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh,

if you have access to a dilruba you can follow this guy's lessons on youtube he explains very clearly about technique , tips on treatment of bow and instrument .

wholegreaterthansum is the channel name good luck and enjoy your practice

[UsernameTaken]

Yes!

that's so true people are forgetting the real essence of kirtan by not using raag! I remember hearing in the katha once that each and every raag has it own significance and helped people!

For example in the olden days people use hope and wait for it to by singing in a particular raag....

I would've loved to have a dilruba but my mums always moaning at me that I don't use the instruments we have at home (vaaja, tabla , dholki and not forgetting the TUMBI LOL) hence i'm starting off with learning the vajja and dholki, the other two i'm not too keen on! So now that i'm at it, does anyone know how to play the dholki ? :D

As jkv pen ji has mentioned I'm only getting started yet so I think I need to build up on my voice and especially confidence!

Because I've sang some traditional songs at ladies sangeets in family weddings but when it comes ta singing a shabad i'm not so good, I suppose its just the pressure of getting the shabad wrong!

anyway bhul chuk maaf ji and thank you!

[jkvlondon]

Yes!

that's so true people are forgetting the real essence of kirtan by not using raag! I remember hearing in the katha once that each and every raag has it own significance and helped people!

For example in the olden days people use hope and wait for it to by singing in a particular raag....

I would've loved to have a dilruba but my mums always moaning at me that I don't use the instruments we have at home (vaaja, tabla , dholki and not forgetting the TUMBI LOL) hence i'm starting off with learning the vajja and dholki, the other two i'm not too keen on! So now that i'm at it, does anyone know how to play the dholki ? :D

As jkv pen ji has mentioned I'm only getting started yet so I think I need to build up on my voice and especially confidence!

Because I've sang some traditional songs at ladies sangeets in family weddings but when it comes ta singing a shabad i'm not so good, I suppose its just the pressure of getting the shabad wrong!

anyway bhul chuk maaf ji and thank you!

forgot to mention gora also has raag vocal practice vids ..

[Jonny101]

It makes it bad,

Yes I agree, the intstruments you speak of were introduced because they fit in with Raag Vidiya , different instruments accompany different Raags they are used to influence the different moods and emotions of the various shabads they accompany. What is bad is that all of this traditional Vidiya appears to have been lost and instead has been replaced largely by just the Vaaja and Tabla on kirtan stages, because maybe they are easier to learn. The effect is not the same, it is a discredit to Raag Vidiya and Kirtan to not have the correct instruements and knowledge of the accompanying Raags,.

veer ji

you cannot replicate sikh raags properly on the harmonium for instance Shri raag which is one of the most used cannot be correct because the re note is incorrect thus raag is not correct thus naad of shabad is destroyed . Naad guru and Shabad guru make the true kirtan for us ...naad creates the emotion which enhances the pakard of the shabad into your hirda.

listen to

bhai Avtar Singh ji dhann so raag sorangeh on www.gurmatveechar.com volume 1 ...and see how different it makes you feel compared to aam kirtania vaaja kirtan

Personally I like the old instruments and lament that it's no longer widely used as it once was. Sikh Sansthas should focus on spread Raag Vidya in Tanti Saaj. But the thing about Harmonium is that it is very easy to learn and has allowed untold amounts of Sikhs to perform kirtan which otherwise they would not be able to. Harmonium is so easy to learn that you can literally learn it from the internet while that is not possible for stringed instruments which require an Ustaad to be physically present to teach you and even then it will take years and years to learn. That is not to say Vaaja can replace the beautiful sounds of stringed instruments, but if there is no Ustad near you, then surely there is nothing wrong in learning the Vaaja which many unmatched experts of Raag Music like Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan had not problem singing to.

Secondly, for those who don't have knowledge in Raag music, but sing with pyar in simple tunes like Brahmgiani Sant Attar Singh Mastuane wale who would do Kirtan to Shaine and Dholki with simple Dharnas. Would such kirtan not be parvaan at the darbar of Guru Sahib?

[jkvlondon]

Personally I like the old instruments and lament that it's no longer widely used as it once was. Sikh Sansthas should do focus on spread Raag Vidya in Tanti Saaj. But the thing about Harmonium is that it is very easy to learn and has allowed untold amounts of Sikhs to perform kirtan which otherwise they would not be able to. Harmonium is so easy to learn that you can literally learn it from the internet while that is not possible for stringed instruments which require an Ustaad to be physically present to teach you and even then it will take years and years to learn. That is not to say Vaaja can replace the beautiful sounds of stringed instruments, but if there is no Ustad near you, then surely there is nothing wrong in learning the Vaaja which many unmatched experts of Raag Music like Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan had not problem singing to.

Secondly, for those who don't have knowledge in Raag music, but sing with pyar in simple tunes like Brahmgiani Sant Attar Singh Mastuane wale who would do Kirtan to Shaine and Dholki with simple Dharnas. Would such kirtan not be parvaan at the darbar of Guru Sahib?

veer ji all bani is parvan ...just we need to revive the tools given us by Guru ji if wasn't important they would not have used raag in Guruji and developed tanti saaz specific to Gurmat Sangeet and this was stolen from us by The British missionaries because they could see how much Bani in the form of kirtan gave us an internal support. Darbar sahib was resistant to the introduction of the harmonium as it was considered very lowly instrument, was a much lesser thing than Guru ji's Saaz . Time has passed but we can still learn and propagate higher standards in kirtan ...we shouldn't be lazy Khalsa must forget comfort in all aspects of life to become the supermen/women Guru ji needs in His fauj. I mean even rabab, sarangi, dhumbi were used in Guru ji's darbar , can't get more simple than pure vocal kirtan even we can try to achieve that by practising raag vidhiya and then singing

I have invested in a dilruba and sarangi and hope to make it a family project to learn these instruments ...if others have come across good online resources for learning raag kirtan I would appreciate the sharing of that info with our sikh bandhap here, Thanks

[chatanga]

Basically I really REALLY want to learn how to play my vajja!

I knew as soon as this came up, it would turn into a debate about Raag Vidiya. But it's good. The vaaja is so entrenched in the Sikh pysche now, that if we hear someone say Imlearning to do kirtan, we picture them with a vaaja.

But where is it written that Vaaja cannot be used for kirtan? if one goes by the logic that it is not traditionally India, then so are many Indian instruments such as Sarangi, Sitar, Rabab which have their origins in the middle east/Central asia and came to India with Islamic invaders. Just because an instrument is european does not make it bad.

Bhaji, this question has been asked and answered many times on this forum.

I dont know where you are getting your info from that the sarangi and sitar are not indian instruments, and the rabab is of many variants, the most recognizable variant being the afghan/persian. Who invented the sarangi ?

But the thing about Harmonium is that it is very easy to learn and has allowed untold amounts of Sikhs to perform kirtan which otherwise they would not be able to.

Bhaji, that is just a scare story that tanti saaj is so so hard, and that raags are so so complicated. Raags can be very simple and the saaj needs basic bowing and fingering to be able to play. You dont need to play a tanti saaj like a darbari raagi.

harmonium is easier, but tanti saaj is not that much harder.

I have invested in a dilruba and sarangi and hope to make it a family project to learn these instruments ...

what a star!

[jasdeepsingh2k125]

[UsernameTaken]

thank you jiiiiii !