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Does 21St Century Sikhs Meditate On God?

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This is a question for all the sikhs including myself are we really sikhs or just known to be sikhs. How is our relation going on with god? Do we meditate on GOD?

OR

WE are stuck in getting a different nation?

Does every sikh understands Gurbani?

Why do sikhs don't respect other religions? Whereas GURU sahib respected every religion.

And What is the difference between sikh(us) and "SIKH" in this shabad-

ਮਃ ੪ ॥

Ma 4 ||

मः ४ ॥

Fourth Mehl:

1 ਪੰ. ੧੬
Ang:305 Line: 16

ਗੁਰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਜੋ ਸਿਖੁ ਅਖਾਏ ਸੁ ਭਲਕੇ ਉਠਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥

Gur Sathigur Kaa Jo Sikh Akhaaeae S Bhalakae Outh Har Naam Dhhiaavai ||

गुर सतिगुर का जो सिखु अखाए सु भलके उठि हरि नामु धिआवै ॥

One who calls himself a Sikh of the Guru the True Guru shall rise in the early morning hours and meditate on the Lord's Name.

2 ਗਉੜੀ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ:੧ (ਮ: ੪) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੦੫ ਪੰ. ੧੬
Raag Gauri Guru Ram Das Ang:305 Line: 16

ਉਦਮੁ ਕਰੇ ਭਲਕੇ ਪਰਭਾਤੀ ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ਕਰੇ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਰਿ ਨਾਵੈ ॥

Oudham Karae Bhalakae Parabhaathee Eisanaan Karae Anmrith Sar Naavai ||

उदमु करे भलके परभाती इसनानु करे अम्रित सरि नावै ॥

Upon arising early in the morning, he is to bathe, and cleanse himself in the pool of nectar.

3 ਗਉੜੀ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ:੧ (ਮ: ੪) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੦੫ ਪੰ. ੧੭
Raag Gauri Guru Ram Das Ang:305 Line: 17

ਉਪਦੇਸਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਪੁ ਜਾਪੈ ਸਭਿ ਕਿਲਵਿਖ ਪਾਪ ਦੋਖ ਲਹਿ ਜਾਵੈ ॥

Oupadhaes Guroo Har Har Jap Jaapai Sabh Kilavikh Paap Dhokh Lehi Jaavai ||

उपदेसि गुरू हरि हरि जपु जापै सभि किलविख पाप दोख लहि जावै ॥

Following the Instructions of the Guru, he is to chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. All sins, misdeeds and negativity shall be erased.

4 ਗਉੜੀ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ:੧ (ਮ: ੪) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੦੫ ਪੰ. ੧੮
Raag Gauri Guru Ram Das Ang:305 Line: 18

ਫਿਰਿ ਚੜੈ ਦਿਵਸੁ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਗਾਵੈ ਬਹਦਿਆ ਉਠਦਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥

Fir Charrai Dhivas Gurabaanee Gaavai Behadhiaa Outhadhiaa Har Naam Dhhiaavai ||

फिरि चड़ै दिवसु गुरबाणी गावै बहदिआ उठदिआ हरि नामु धिआवै ॥

Then, at the rising of the sun, he is to sing Gurbani; whether sitting down or standing up, he is to meditate on the Lord's Name.

5 ਗਉੜੀ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ:੧ (ਮ: ੪) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੦੫ ਪੰ. ੧੮
Raag Gauri Guru Ram Das Ang:305 Line: 18

ਜੋ ਸਾਸਿ ਗਿਰਾਸਿ ਧਿਆਏ ਮੇਰਾ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਸੋ ਗੁਰਸਿਖੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਮਨਿ ਭਾਵੈ ॥

Jo Saas Giraas Dhhiaaeae Maeraa Har Har So Gurasikh Guroo Man Bhaavai ||

जो सासि गिरासि धिआए मेरा हरि हरि सो गुरसिखु गुरू मनि भावै ॥

One who meditates on my Lord, Har, Har, with every breath and every morsel of food - that GurSikh becomes pleasing to the Guru's Mind.

6 ਗਉੜੀ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ:੧ (ਮ: ੪) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੦੫ ਪੰ. ੧੯
Raag Gauri Guru Ram Das Ang:305 Line: 19

ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਦਇਆਲੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਮੇਰਾ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਤਿਸੁ ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਗੁਰੂ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਸੁਣਾਵੈ ॥

Jis No Dhaeiaal Hovai Maeraa Suaamee This Gurasikh Guroo Oupadhaes Sunaavai ||

जिस नो दइआलु होवै मेरा सुआमी तिसु गुरसिख गुरू उपदेसु सुणावै ॥

That person, unto whom my Lord and Master is kind and compassionate - upon that GurSikh, the Guru's Teachings are bestowed.

7 ਗਉੜੀ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ:੧ (ਮ: ੪) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੦੬ ਪੰ. ੧
Raag Gauri Guru Ram Das Ang:306 Line: 1

ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਧੂੜਿ ਮੰਗੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਕੀ ਜੋ ਆਪਿ ਜਪੈ ਅਵਰਹ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ ॥੨॥

I am sorry if have said anything wrong.

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VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

A) Why generalize - who says Sikhs don't respect other religions - where is the evidence? You cannot hold the faith accountable for the actions of individuals. Sikhs are not declaring a Jihad on any faith or otherwise mobilizing as a Panth against any religion.

B) Why Nijjar, not Singh? If you are Amritdhari, you know that this is a no-no. If you are not, then you know this is the first step to being a Sikh.

C) Who says there are not real Gursikhs right now? What evidence is there that all are gone? Not all will wave a flag to attract attention to themselves.

D) Who says Sikhs don't meditate on God? There are many Sikhs waking up at Amrit Vela, doing Simran/Nitnem/Keertan/Paath and trying to be good Gursikhs.

It seems that you are somehow frustrated at the Sikh Panth's current state. That is very easy to get into. Always remember that Vaheguru created the Khalsa and Vaheguru will always have victory (Fateh). It is the game that the Sikh faith was to undergo and learn from. We, who are blessed to be allied to this faith, live on the earnings and respect of our forefathers and must realize that this is not sustainable. New Baba Deep Singhs and Mai Bhagos must and will arise. We have only to look back 30 years from the post 1984 movement to see that Gursikhs were alive and well and up to the same standards of the Puratan Gursikhs.

Focus on yourself and ask yourself these questions and when the answers arise, make improvements to yourself. If you want to exact change, you will have to work on the self. If you wish to do seva, do seva locally per Bhai Jasbir Singh Khanne Vale to raise awareness of Sikhi and conduct Gurmat oriented programs in the local Sangat(s).

Sikhsangat posts will not resolve Panthic matters or be the answer to the questions you are looking for at a Panthic level.

Excellent point to many are wrapped up in the goth (surname), when i was a child my grandmother used to say lose the surname but never ever remove Singh or kaur !. Guru Gobind Singh ji become Singh not Singh rai.

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This is a question for all the sikhs including myself are we really sikhs or just known to be sikhs. How is our relation going on with god? Do we meditate on GOD?

OR

WE are stuck in getting a different nation?

Does every sikh understands Gurbani?

Why do sikhs don't respect other religions? Whereas GURU sahib respected every religion.

And What is the difference between sikh(us) and "SIKH" in this shabad-

ਮਃ ੪ ॥

Ma 4 ||

मः ४ ॥

Fourth Mehl:

1 ਪੰ. ੧੬

Ang:305 Line: 16

ਗੁਰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਜੋ ਸਿਖੁ ਅਖਾਏ ਸੁ ਭਲਕੇ ਉਠਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥

Gur Sathigur Kaa Jo Sikh Akhaaeae S Bhalakae Outh Har Naam Dhhiaavai ||

गुर सतिगुर का जो सिखु अखाए सु भलके उठि हरि नामु धिआवै ॥

One who calls himself a Sikh of the Guru the True Guru shall rise in the early morning hours and meditate on the Lord's Name.

2 ਗਉੜੀ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ:੧ (ਮ: ੪) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੦੫ ਪੰ. ੧੬

Raag Gauri Guru Ram Das Ang:305 Line: 16

ਉਦਮੁ ਕਰੇ ਭਲਕੇ ਪਰਭਾਤੀ ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ਕਰੇ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਰਿ ਨਾਵੈ ॥

Oudham Karae Bhalakae Parabhaathee Eisanaan Karae Anmrith Sar Naavai ||

उदमु करे भलके परभाती इसनानु करे अम्रित सरि नावै ॥

Upon arising early in the morning, he is to bathe, and cleanse himself in the pool of nectar.

3 ਗਉੜੀ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ:੧ (ਮ: ੪) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੦੫ ਪੰ. ੧੭

Raag Gauri Guru Ram Das Ang:305 Line: 17

ਉਪਦੇਸਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਪੁ ਜਾਪੈ ਸਭਿ ਕਿਲਵਿਖ ਪਾਪ ਦੋਖ ਲਹਿ ਜਾਵੈ ॥

Oupadhaes Guroo Har Har Jap Jaapai Sabh Kilavikh Paap Dhokh Lehi Jaavai ||

उपदेसि गुरू हरि हरि जपु जापै सभि किलविख पाप दोख लहि जावै ॥

Following the Instructions of the Guru, he is to chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. All sins, misdeeds and negativity shall be erased.

4 ਗਉੜੀ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ:੧ (ਮ: ੪) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੦੫ ਪੰ. ੧੮

Raag Gauri Guru Ram Das Ang:305 Line: 18

ਫਿਰਿ ਚੜੈ ਦਿਵਸੁ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਗਾਵੈ ਬਹਦਿਆ ਉਠਦਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥

Fir Charrai Dhivas Gurabaanee Gaavai Behadhiaa Outhadhiaa Har Naam Dhhiaavai ||

फिरि चड़ै दिवसु गुरबाणी गावै बहदिआ उठदिआ हरि नामु धिआवै ॥

Then, at the rising of the sun, he is to sing Gurbani; whether sitting down or standing up, he is to meditate on the Lord's Name.

5 ਗਉੜੀ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ:੧ (ਮ: ੪) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੦੫ ਪੰ. ੧੮

Raag Gauri Guru Ram Das Ang:305 Line: 18

ਜੋ ਸਾਸਿ ਗਿਰਾਸਿ ਧਿਆਏ ਮੇਰਾ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਸੋ ਗੁਰਸਿਖੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਮਨਿ ਭਾਵੈ ॥

Jo Saas Giraas Dhhiaaeae Maeraa Har Har So Gurasikh Guroo Man Bhaavai ||

जो सासि गिरासि धिआए मेरा हरि हरि सो गुरसिखु गुरू मनि भावै ॥

One who meditates on my Lord, Har, Har, with every breath and every morsel of food - that GurSikh becomes pleasing to the Guru's Mind.

6 ਗਉੜੀ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ:੧ (ਮ: ੪) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੦੫ ਪੰ. ੧੯

Raag Gauri Guru Ram Das Ang:305 Line: 19

ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਦਇਆਲੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਮੇਰਾ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਤਿਸੁ ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਗੁਰੂ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਸੁਣਾਵੈ ॥

Jis No Dhaeiaal Hovai Maeraa Suaamee This Gurasikh Guroo Oupadhaes Sunaavai ||

जिस नो दइआलु होवै मेरा सुआमी तिसु गुरसिख गुरू उपदेसु सुणावै ॥

That person, unto whom my Lord and Master is kind and compassionate - upon that GurSikh, the Guru's Teachings are bestowed.

7 ਗਉੜੀ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ:੧ (ਮ: ੪) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੦੬ ਪੰ. ੧

Raag Gauri Guru Ram Das Ang:306 Line: 1

ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਧੂੜਿ ਮੰਗੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਕੀ ਜੋ ਆਪਿ ਜਪੈ ਅਵਰਹ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ ॥੨॥

I am sorry if have said anything wrong.

Excellent post

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VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

A) Why generalize - who says Sikhs don't respect other religions - where is the evidence? You cannot hold the faith accountable for the actions of individuals. Sikhs are not declaring a Jihad on any faith or otherwise mobilizing as a Panth against any religion.

B) Why Nijjar, not Singh? If you are Amritdhari, you know that this is a no-no. If you are not, then you know this is the first step to being a Sikh.

C) Who says there are not real Gursikhs right now? What evidence is there that all are gone? Not all will wave a flag to attract attention to themselves.

D) Who says Sikhs don't meditate on God? There are many Sikhs waking up at Amrit Vela, doing Simran/Nitnem/Keertan/Paath and trying to be good Gursikhs.

It seems that you are somehow frustrated at the Sikh Panth's current state. That is very easy to get into. Always remember that Vaheguru created the Khalsa and Vaheguru will always have victory (Fateh). It is the game that the Sikh faith was to undergo and learn from. We, who are blessed to be allied to this faith, live on the earnings and respect of our forefathers and must realize that this is not sustainable. New Baba Deep Singhs and Mai Bhagos must and will arise. We have only to look back 30 years from the post 1984 movement to see that Gursikhs were alive and well and up to the same standards of the Puratan Gursikhs.

Focus on yourself and ask yourself these questions and when the answers arise, make improvements to yourself. If you want to exact change, you will have to work on the self. If you wish to do seva, do seva locally per Bhai Jasbir Singh Khanne Vale to raise awareness of Sikhi and conduct Gurmat oriented programs in the local Sangat(s).

Sikhsangat posts will not resolve Panthic matters or be the answer to the questions you are looking for at a Panthic level.

KHalsa ji you are real khalsa . I respect your answers to questions and agree with it completely.

DO you know these are not my questions? MY classmate(not sikh) asked me this question. He said, " Why do you guys always hate Hindu And Muslims. Why do you ask for different nation when GURU NANAK DEV JI said GOD is one and he is in everyone. "

THese are all his questions not MINE.

And I felt very bad that what is being perceived by people.

And Nijjar is for the id so that i don't get already taken error hah! I know I don't have as much knowledge as sikhs like you have. But I am not fighting about these questions, Don't get angry. Everyone is not perfectly knowledgeable like you.

I am very sorry to say that You did not read the post carefully I already said "including myself" as I first asked this question to myself then others.

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VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Jio, you did not specify that this was from your classmate - apologies that I did not know as it was not stated.

Your classmate is being quite strange - what is his evidence for asking this question? That is more of an accusation than a question and he should be challenged to present evidence that we as a faith (not individuals) hate any faith. Given that Gurbani includes verses from Hindus and Muslims that we bow down to, that statement would not have a leg to stand on.

Nobody is angry - trust me. Not a Brahmgyani either (perfectly knowledgable would be that). Saying including myself does not inherently mean that you did not ask the questions. Nijjar is a surname and carries with it a burden contrary to Sikhi - you could have just as easily picked Eagle or Grasshopper or whatever other descriptive/label to make yourself stand out.

Anyways, best of luck.

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Good post. Glad people haven't shouted at you for asking those questions.

Society is a different place now. Everyone has his own version of truth and how to pray or meditate. I have seen many Sikhs who meditate, do all paths but say that they are still incomplete. They still are nothing in front of their indriyaan. Many are full of hatred for Hindus and Muslims. Same in other religions you can find many who haven't achieved success and peace of mind and they are after the other religions.

But the matter of fact - god created man and then rest is a long story.

The crux is to be good and do good and lead a simple life - if you can considering the level of distractions these days. Meditation will come "Sehaje".

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VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Jio, you did not specify that this was from your classmate - apologies that I did not know as it was not stated.

Your classmate is being quite strange - what is his evidence for asking this question? That is more of an accusation than a question and he should be challenged to present evidence that we as a faith (not individuals) hate any faith. Given that Gurbani includes verses from Hindus and Muslims that we bow down to, that statement would not have a leg to stand on.

Nobody is angry - trust me. Not a Brahmgyani either (perfectly knowledgable would be that). Saying including myself does not inherently mean that you did not ask the questions. Nijjar is a surname and carries with it a burden contrary to Sikhi - you could have just as easily picked Eagle or Grasshopper or whatever other descriptive/label to make yourself stand out.

Anyways, best of luck.

I think he is escaping now..

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VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Jio, you did not specify that this was from your classmate - apologies that I did not know as it was not stated.

Your classmate is being quite strange - what is his evidence for asking this question? That is more of an accusation than a question and he should be challenged to present evidence that we as a faith (not individuals) hate any faith. Given that Gurbani includes verses from Hindus and Muslims that we bow down to, that statement would not have a leg to stand on.

Nobody is angry - trust me. Not a Brahmgyani either (perfectly knowledgable would be that). Saying including myself does not inherently mean that you did not ask the questions. Nijjar is a surname and carries with it a burden contrary to Sikhi - you could have just as easily picked Eagle or Grasshopper or whatever other descriptive/label to make yourself stand out.

Anyways, best of luck.

That would be awsome to have someone calling himself FALANA SINGH GRASSHOPPER instead of using their casteist, tribal, backward, tail names.

Our father Guru Gobind Singh gave us SINGH as our last name to be our ID as Sikhs but pseudo Sikhs stil are still lost in the backwardness of casteism and stupid surnames.

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Whats in a name? Guru sahib wanted equality but unfortunately it is still a distant dream.

Some Amritdharis and Singhs only think they are above others and closer to god and create that division themselves. They think low of others. Some sehajdharis and regular Sikhs are proud of their historical misls and want to use it with their names.

At least they have kept Singh whereas some have even stopped using that.

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    • Here is some history about the Ottomans. They were a turkic people like the Mughals.  Like the Mughals who bred with Rajput women, the Ottomans did the same with the locally conquered women: https://www.thoughtco.com/ottoman-sultans-were-not-very-turkish-195760
    • Thread from an Albanian friend of mine (Albania is a formerly part of the Ottoman Empire in the Balkans) so he has far better understanding than I ever will.
      There are aspects that can be related to our people and the history of partition (but this guy does not like Greeks or Turks very much), but I suspect if you ask a Greek he may have different point of view:


       Okay thread.

      Topic:

      TURKEY HAS "LEGAL RIGHT" TO ETHNIC CLEANSE THE KURDS.

      Not a joke.

      1/

       During the disintegration of the Ottoman Empire, ethnic groups were spread out across the empire.

      Once ethnic states started to appear with the creation of Greece by Germans in 1827, a chain reaction ensued across Ottoman Rumelia (aka Land of Romans), the mess started.

      2/
       Long story short, Bulgaria, Serbia, Romania, Montenegro, Albania, Turkey etc were created over the course of 100 years from the Roman Revolution in 1822, now known as the Greek Revolution.

      3/ During these 100 years, from 1822 to 1923, (literally 101 years), was to find a way to pinpoint all borders in order to avoid ethnic conflicts, within each new ethnic state multiple ethnicities resided, which itself had multiple religions, which was normal for the ottomans.

      4/
       There were Orthodox Greeks and Muslim Greeks, orthodox bulgarians and muslim bulgarians, orthodox serbs and muslim serbs, orthodox albanians and muslim albanians, orthodox turks and muslim turks.

      And all were spread UNEVENLY across the collapsing empire.

      5/
       In the meantime what we now call Western Europe, was going through an ethnic consolidation as well, as German elite was trying to create Unified Germany, which they achieved in 1871, excluding the Austrians, who refused to be Germans.

      6/ Long story short, by late 1870s onward, Ottoman elite was getting together with the western elite, aka Big Powers, to solve the mess.

      It started with Congress of Berlin in 1878, then Treaty of London in 1913, it ended with Lausanne Treaty in 1923.

      7/ During these years, Balkan Wars occurred and the weakest links were sacrificed to achieve some kind of managed peace in the Balkans.

      It started with Otto von Bismarck, the first Chancellor of the unified Germany declaring:

      "The Albanian nation does NOT exist".

      8/
       So, the only way to find any solution was to assert that X nation does NOT exist at all or does not exist in X area, there was no other way.

      9/
       So, that is what they did.

      What is now called Greece, it used to be a mixture of Greeks, Albanians, Bulgarians, Vlachs (Romanians) and Turks.

      Baaaaam, nobody else exists, only Greeks. Decision made.

      10/
       The only reason that Albanians now exist, is because at last moment a Hungarian prince raised the issue with the Austro-Hungarian emperor, that if Albanians do not exist, then Serbia/Russia would have access to the Adriatic.

      The Emperor freaked out. Albanians exist he said.

      11/
       Long story short, after 101 years, all comes down to the Lausanne Treaty in 1923 between Greece and Turkey.

      12/
       In the Lausanne Treaty, it was codified the practice of deciding whether a nation exists or not.

      Venizellos and Mustafa Kemal, one orthodox greek and the other muslim greek (Ataturk spoke greek fluently), simply decided that any orthodox was Greek and any muslim was Turk.

      13/
       So, within Greece, per Lausanne Treaty now codified as international treaty supported by big powers, all orthodox were forced to be hellenized, all albanians, bulgarians, vlachs and turks.

      14/
       Per the treaty as well, codified as international law, anybody inside Turkey, whether turks, greek, albanian, bulgarian, or ....KURDISH, simply did not exist, there were only Turks in Turkey.

      15/
       Hence per the treaty, anybody had to be Turkified, like in Greece anybody had to be hellenized.

      The problem here, and I understood this by reading Taleb saying "scale matters", the problem is that it takes long time to Hellenize and Turkify large populations.

      16/
       Based on past practice now codified in international law, Greece and Turkey intensified now openly what they say "population exchange", which was LEGAL MUTUAL ETHNIC CLEANSING, now codified in international law.

      17/ Greece, per the law, ethnic cleansed all muslims from Greece, except for the ones in Thrace, which was part of the treaty.
        Turkey per the law ethnic cleansed all orthodox from Turkey, except the ones in Constantinople, which was part of the treaty, they moved to Greece. 18/ These ethnic cleansing did not happen instantly, it took decades to be completed, literally decades. In 1945, Greece ethnic cleansed "muslims" from Chameria per the Lausanne Treaty, they were all Albanians. 19/ Yugoslavia, made a deal with Turkey in the 1960s to have about 400k "muslims" moved to Turkey. The offer from Ankara was 1 horse for 3 muslims (no joke, as they were all Albanians). The serbs replied: take them all for free, as long as all albanians leave. 20/ The tricky part of this one is that Turkey wanted these 400k Albanians to displace the Kurds in East Turkey. Of course Albanians refused, they settle in West Turkey. So, the plan to ethnic cleanse the Kurds by use of Albanians, failed. 21/ In 1999 Abdullah Ocalan, Kurdish fighter against Turkey was arrested in Kenya after the Greek government delivered him into the hands of the Turkish gov, fully complying with the Lausanne Treaty. 22/ So, as you see, it is Turkey's right legally, per lausanne treaty, to ethnic cleanse the Kurds. 23/ The only difference here is USA. USA does NOT recognize international treaties which come against its interest, it is in the US constitution. Hence, USA disregarded the Treaty of London of 1913 giving Kosovo to Yugoslavia, simply invaded KS away from Serbia. 24/ USA is disregarding Lausanne Treaty as well now, by organizing the Kurds together against Turkey. It takes time, but they will do it, as Turkey is now basically an enemy. 
      Give it 20-25 years, just like with Kosovo. 25/ END  
       
    • Erdogan in June 2015:

      “I’m addressing the whole world. Whatever the cost it might be, we will never allow a state established in Northern Syria”

      Why does he not want a Kurdish state in Northern Syria? I know why, does anybody know why?
    • What caste pride do I have? Only Juts have caste pride? Let's get back to the question of Kurds. Instead of looking at the situation from the filter of only British colonialism and caste, what do you actually understand about the whole situation of the Kurds in it's entirety? Do you understand the history of the Kurds, their relationship with the Ottoman Empire, their role in exterminating the Armenians from Eastern Anatolia (1915 genocide) the carving up of former Ottoman lands (sandjuks) in the picot sykes agreement. The effect of the Lausanne Treaty between Greece and Turkey. The role of the Young Turks and Ataturk. The relationships of the Kurds in the 4 countries I have mentioned with Shias/Sunni Arabs/Turks in those respective countries. The relationships and groups within those Kurdish groups, the demographic changes in Turkey. The effect of Erdogan and his family's relationship with the intention of supporting ISIS so that the gas/oil pipelines can be transmitted through Turkey. That is just the tip of the iceberg. There are whole geopolitical implications here that involve Iran, Iraq, Eastern Med, Russia, parts of the caucuses, even parts of the Balkans are impacted. It is very complex and far more nuanced. Compared to that, subcontinental politics is a picnic. You'd be really shocked to see the level of hatred between these people. A real eye opener. You might make some synergies with struggles of our panth with the Kurds but that is an over-simplification.  If you want to do rajniti, you have to understand everything in it's entirety and not what suits us.      
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