Were There Any Sikhs Who Spoke Pahari Before 1947?

[mrggg123]

?

[JagsawSingh]

Yes of course there were.

With regards to Punjabi and it's dialects, if you're genuinely interested in it's demographics, the first thing you've got to learn is that you should ignore practically everything written on the internet about the subject. The internet is full of 'facts' written by thousands of different 'experts' in which they describe the situation as it was in November 1946. i.e doabi spoken around Jalandhar, malwai spoken around Ludhiana etc, Majhail spoken in Lahore, Hindko spoken in Peshawar, potwari spoken around Rawalpind etc.

That was 1946. It seems most experts in the demographics of Punjabi don't realise this but the year now is actually 2014.

The reality now is that Potwari /Pahari is spoken around Rawalpindi, Islamabad and Delhi.

Doabi is the main dialect around Jalandhar and the districts of Faisalabad in pakistan. In fact, there are more muslim doabi speakers in pakistan than there are Sikh doabi speakers in Indian Punjab. (Although if you were to walk the streets of Southall, Birmingham, Vancouver and Toronto) you'd be forgiven for thinking this was the main 'Sikh' dialect).

Malwai is spoken in the malwa area of Indian Punjab and also in much of rural Lahore and Nankana districts of Pakistan Punjab (where the Ludhiana district muslims were rehoused).

Majhi with a Sialkot twang, is spoken in the Sialkot district of Pakistan and in various areas of India where bhatra sikhs have migrated to.

So, imagine this fictitious scenario in a street in Southall: Mr Singh lives at No 46 and another Mr Singh lives next door at number 48. Both Indians. Directly across the road, Mr Ali Khan lives at 45 and and another Mr Ali Khan lives at number 47. Both Pakistani.

Mr Singh at #46 is from a village in Jalandhar, Mr Singh from #48 comes from Delhi, where his grandfather relocated to from Rawalpindi in 1948.

Mr Ali Khan at #45 comes from a village in the far far away district Faisalabad in Pakistan and Mr Ali Khan at #47 is a Kashmiri muslim that comes from the Mirpur area of Pakistan.

We will find that Mr Singh at #46 and Mr Ali Khan at #45 have exactly the same accent, exactly the same voice,exactly the same tone. Both totally different to their respective so-religionists and compatriots at numbers 47 and 48. For Mr Singh at #48 and Mr Ali Khan at #47 have exactly the same accent, exactly the same voice, exactly the same tone.

[Jonny101]

Yes of course there were.

With regards to Punjabi and it's dialects, if you're genuinely interested in it's demographics, the first thing you've got to learn is that you should ignore practically everything written on the internet about the subject. The internet is full of 'facts' written by thousands of different 'experts' in which they describe the situation as it was in November 1946. i.e doabi spoken around Jalandhar, malwai spoken around Ludhiana etc, Majhail spoken in Lahore, Hindko spoken in Peshawar, potwari spoken around Rawalpind etc.

That was 1946. It seems most experts in the demographics of Punjabi don't realise this but the year now is actually 2014.

The reality now is that Potwari /Pahari is spoken around Rawalpindi, Islamabad and Delhi.

Doabi is the main dialect around Jalandhar and the districts of Faisalabad in pakistan. In fact, there are muslim doabi speakers in pakistan than there are Sikh doabi speakers in Indian Punjab. (Although if you were to walk the streets of Southall, Birmingham, Vancouver and Toronto) you'd be forgiven for thinking this was the main 'Sikh' dialect).

Malwai is spoken in the malwa area of Indian Punjab and also in much of rural Lahore and Nankana districts of Pakistan Punjab (where the Ludhiana district muslims were rehoused).

Majhi with a Sialkot twang, is spoken in the Sialkot district of Pakistan and in various areas of India where bhatra sikhs have migrated to.

So, imagine this fictitious scenario in a street in Southall: Mr Singh lives at No 46 and another Mr Singh lives next door at number 48. Both Indians. Directly across the road, Mr Ali Khan lives at 45 and and another Mr Ali Khan lives at number 47. Both Pakistani.

Mr Singh at #46 is from a village in Jalandhar, Mr Singh from #48 comes from Delhi, where his grandfather relocated to from Rawalpindi in 1948.

Mr Ali Khan at #45 comes from a village in the far far away district Faisalabad in Pakistan and Mr Ali Khan at #47 is a Kashmiri muslim that comes from the Mirpur area of Pakistan.

We will find that Mr Singh at #46 and Mr Ali Khan at #45 have exactly the same accent, exactly the same voice,exactly the same tone. Both totally different to their respective so-religionists and compatriots at numbers 47 and 48. For Mr Singh at #48 and Mr Ali Khan at #47 have exactly the same accent, exactly the same voice, exactly the same tone.

I have never met a Pakistani with a Doabi or Malwai dialect, even the ones whose grandparents were original from Doaba and Malwa. The migrants of both sides adopted the local dialects where they settled. For example, I have relatives who were from Sargodha Pakistan but after partition they settled in Ludhiana. Today only the elderly who lived in Pakistan can speak the Sargodha dialect while their children and grandchildren who were born and raised in Ludhiana speak Malwai accent. Similarly I have met many Arains whose grand parents were born and raised in Jalandhar but today their grandchildren have no trace of the Doabi accept. Even many Khatri Sikhs whose grand parents had come from Pothohar but settled in Punjab have lost their pothohari accent. While the Khatris in Delhi retained it to some extent but even they are losing it now.

The vocabulary on both sides is also going in different directions. In east Punjab many Hindi words have crept in Punjabi while in west(Pak) Punjab many Urdu words have crept in, this is especially true for Pak Punjabis in whose house Urdu is spoken instead of Punjabi.

[JagsawSingh]

I have never met a Pakistani with a Doabi or Malwai dialect, even the ones whose grandparents were original from Doaba and Malwa. The migrants of both sides adopted the local dialects where they settled.

No the Doabi dialect in Pakistan is extremely strong and extremely large. It is known there as 'Faisalabdi Punjabi' and they seem to have cornered the Punjabi stage play / movie dubbing market in Pakistan.

Do a quick Google search for any of the thousands of the hilarious punjabi dubbing comedy shows on Youtube. Nearly all of them are from pakistan and the vast majority of them are in the doabi dialect.

Among the Pakistani diaspora though, relatively few from rural Faislalbad district have emigrated to the UK. Quite common to come across them in America and Canada, but as I understand it they're only really found in a few areas in the UK with Oxford quite famous for having a large concentration of them.

Alot of my wife's friends are Pakistanis from Lahore etc but whose family's originated around Jalandhar and Ludhiana. When you hear them speak, you would never know if you were hearing a Pakistani or one of your own aunties from Jalandhar.