On Bhagat Bani.

[pangaphish]

13Mirch

Thank you for the first sensible reply.

I think I have understood....

[GPS]

Shabad is a unstruck dhun ( sound) in this universe and is nature of God.

Our Gurus have shown us path of raising our consciousness to be able to

hear this dhun. Guru gives us naam i.e. waheguru as Gurmantra to do naam

simran.

[luckysingh99]

Shabad is a unstruck dhun ( sound) in this universe and is nature of God.

Our Gurus have shown us path of raising our consciousness to be able to

hear this dhun. Guru gives us naam i.e. waheguru as Gurmantra to do naam

simran.

I'm not sure if you were just mentioning this with regards to my post earlier ?

Anyway, totally agree with what you are saying... but what I was trying to point at was that the the Guru of Guru Nanak ji was clearly the shabad and he tried to define it for our mann-budh as ''Shabad Guru Surat Dhun Chela''.

One has to experience the shabad to begin to understand it, it is much more than an unstruck dhun.

In the same way ''Dhun'' is much more than just some vibration or resonance.

When the shabad resonates this dhun can also cleanse the mind and make it aware of the bibek undertstanding........it invokes the love.......it can cause the detachment from maya.......it provides power to recognize your hidden vikaars.......

this whole process can eventually lead to the transformation of manmukh to gurmukh.

Step by step, the manmukh gets cleansed..... his sins and paaps get forgiven........the shabad dunn begins to eradicate all this accumulated Bikh (poison from all the vikaars and wrong doings) into amrit.................he begins to get transformed from.....Loha(iron) to Kanchan(gold), as the shabad dunn becomes 'paras'(philosophers stone),...........then eventually and ultimately, you get ''jyoti jyot milai', when the Light can merge into the Light.

See the different pangtees below that reference the points above-

ਬਿਖੁ ਤੇ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਹੁਯਉ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੁਖਿ ਭਣਿਅਉ ॥

Bikẖ ṯe amriṯ hu▫ya▫o nām saṯgur mukẖ bẖaṇi▫a▫o.

Poison is transformed into ambrosial nectar, speaking the Name of the True Guru.

.......................

................

ਗੁਰ ਪਾਰਸ ਹਮ ਲੋਹ ਮਿਲਿ ਕੰਚਨੁ ਹੋਇਆ ਰਾਮ ॥

Gur pāras ham loh mil kancẖan ho▫i▫ā rām.

The Guru is the Philosopher's Stone; by His touch, iron is transformed into gold.

...............................

.....................

ਜੋਤੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਮਿਲਾਇ ਕਾਇਆ ਗੜੁ ਸੋਹਿਆ ਰਾਮ ॥

Joṯī joṯ milā▫e kā▫i▫ā gaṛ sohi▫ā rām.

My light merges into the Light, and my body-fortress is so beautiful.

Waheguru

[SSD]

Exactly !

This is where us moorakhs go wrong and have to attach the label of family/inherited religion to everyone.

Even Kabirji didn't class himself the same as his master Ramanand; as he spoke against the many blind empty rituals.

He founded a practice of Gurmat that gave him his ultimate realisation, but at the time this gurmat didn't come under any umbrella of current religion.

Ramanand was a Bhagat himself from Gurbani"ਰਾਮਾਨੰਦ ਜੀ ਘਰੁ ੧ रामानंद जी घरु १ Rāmānanḏ jī gẖar 1 Raamaanand Jee, First House:

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥ Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ. One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

ਕਤ ਜਾਈਐ ਰੇ ਘਰ ਲਾਗੋ ਰੰਗੁ ॥ कत जाईऐ रे घर लागो रंगु ॥ Kaṯ jā▫ī▫ai re gẖar lāgo rang. Where should I go? My home is filled with bliss.

ਮੇਰਾ ਚਿਤੁ ਨ ਚਲੈ ਮਨੁ ਭਇਓ ਪੰਗੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ मेरा चितु न चलै मनु भइओ पंगु ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Merā cẖiṯ na cẖalai man bẖa▫i▫o pang. ||1|| rahā▫o. My consciousness does not go out wandering. My mind has become crippled. ||1||Pause||

ਏਕ ਦਿਵਸ ਮਨ ਭਈ ਉਮੰਗ ॥ एक दिवस मन भई उमंग ॥ Ėk ḏivas man bẖa▫ī umang. One day, a desire welled up in my mind.

ਘਸਿ ਚੰਦਨ ਚੋਆ ਬਹੁ ਸੁਗੰਧ ॥ घसि चंदन चोआ बहु सुगंध ॥ Gẖas cẖanḏan cẖo▫ā baho suganḏẖ. I ground up sandalwood, along with several fragrant oils.

ਪੂਜਨ ਚਾਲੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਠਾਇ ॥ पूजन चाली ब्रहम ठाइ ॥ Pūjan cẖālī barahm ṯẖā▫e. I went to God's place, and worshipped Him there.

ਸੋ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਬਤਾਇਓ ਗੁਰ ਮਨ ਹੀ ਮਾਹਿ ॥੧॥ सो ब्रहमु बताइओ गुर मन ही माहि ॥१॥ So barahm baṯā▫i▫o gur man hī māhi. ||1|| That God showed me the Guru, within my own mind. ||1||

ਜਹਾ ਜਾਈਐ ਤਹ ਜਲ ਪਖਾਨ ॥ जहा जाईऐ तह जल पखान ॥ Jahā jā▫ī▫ai ṯah jal pakẖān. Wherever I go, I find water and stones.

ਤੂ ਪੂਰਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਹੈ ਸਭ ਸਮਾਨ ॥ तू पूरि रहिओ है सभ समान ॥ Ŧū pūr rahi▫o hai sabẖ samān. You are totally pervading and permeating in all.

ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਸਭ ਦੇਖੇ ਜੋਇ ॥ बेद पुरान सभ देखे जोइ ॥ Beḏ purān sabẖ ḏekẖe jo▫e. I have searched through all the Vedas and the Puraanas.

ਊਹਾਂ ਤਉ ਜਾਈਐ ਜਉ ਈਹਾਂ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥੨॥ ऊहां तउ जाईऐ जउ ईहां न होइ ॥२॥ Ūhāʼn ṯa▫o jā▫ī▫ai ja▫o īhāʼn na ho▫e. ||2|| I would go there, only if the Lord were not here. ||2||

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੈ ਬਲਿਹਾਰੀ ਤੋਰ ॥ सतिगुर मै बलिहारी तोर ॥ Saṯgur mai balihārī ṯor. I am a sacrifice to You, O my True Guru.

ਜਿਨਿ ਸਕਲ ਬਿਕਲ ਭ੍ਰਮ ਕਾਟੇ ਮੋਰ ॥ जिनि सकल बिकल भ्रम काटे मोर ॥ Jin sakal bikal bẖaram kāte mor. You have cut through all my confusion and doubt.

ਰਾਮਾਨੰਦ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਰਮਤ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ॥ रामानंद सुआमी रमत ब्रहम ॥ Rāmānanḏ su▫āmī ramaṯ barahm. Raamaanand's Lord and Master is the All-pervading Lord God.

ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਕਾਟੈ ਕੋਟਿ ਕਰਮ ॥੩॥੧॥ गुर का सबदु काटै कोटि करम ॥३॥१॥ Gur kā sabaḏ kātai kot karam. ||3||1|| The Word of the Guru's Shabad eradicates the karma of millions of past actions. ||3||1||"

[luckysingh99]

Yes SSD ji.

However, Ramanand was guided towards gurmat and worship of One formless lord by Kabirji himself !

[SSD]

Yes SSD ji.

However, Ramanand was guided towards gurmat and worship of One formless lord by Kabirji himself !

I believe it was the other way arround, Bhagat Ramanand was Kabir's Guru(teacher) and Bhagat Ramanand also taught Ravidas, Pipa, Dhana, and also many non-Bhagats.

[13Mirch]

13Mirch

Thank you for the first sensible reply.

I think I have understood....

'The mist lifted and 13 mirch's achar did wonders.'

[luckysingh99]

I believe it was the other way arround, Bhagat Ramanand was Kabir's Guru(teacher) and Bhagat Ramanand also taught Ravidas, Pipa, Dhana, and also many non-Bhagats.

Not quite !

You will have to read up on it.

There are guys on here with much more historical knowledge, but I know I'm not fabricating anything.

If you read what Ramanand practiced and how it went about in full circles to eventually land at gurmat, then you will understand why his small bani contribution is included as well.

Ramanand was the teacher but he didn't practice gurmat until his student Kabirji guided him !!

Again,.. you guys are going in the directions of ''who's guru is who'' ?.......which leads to the same recent ranting.

My posts have already clarified that it is about GURMAT, Bibek and ''shabad guru surat dhun chela'' not about anything else.

I have absolutely no interest in that direction of discussion, unless anyone wants to discus spiritually.

[Jonny101]

Not quite !

You will have to read up on it.

There are guys on here with much more historical knowledge, but I know I'm not fabricating anything.

If you read what Ramanand practiced and how it went about in full circles to eventually land at gurmat, then you will understand why his small bani contribution is included as well.

Ramanand was the teacher but he didn't practice gurmat until his student Kabirji guided him !!

Again,.. you guys are going in the directions of ''who's guru is who'' ?.......which leads to the same recent ranting.

My posts have already clarified that it is about GURMAT, Bibek and ''shabad guru surat dhun chela'' not about anything else.

I have absolutely no interest in that direction of discussion, unless anyone wants to discus spiritually.

Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee is Gurmat. There is no Gurmat without Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee.

Before the Bhagats came to Gurmat, Bhagat Ramanand Jee was the Guru of most of the Bhagats. The transformation happened because they all came to the Sharan of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji. This is supported by the pre Singh Sabha era literature of the Sikhs.

[SSD]

Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee is Gurmat. There is no Gurmat without Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee.

Before the Bhagats came to Gurmat, Bhagat Ramanand Jee was the Guru of most of the Bhagats. The transformation happened because they all came to the Sharan of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji. This is supported by the pre Singh Sabha era literature of the Sikhs.

what about Bhagat Farid? He came in the 12th century, http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fariduddin_Ganjshakar