Jump to content

Recommended Posts

I recently read a debate regarding the so-called status of Bhagat Ravidass as the Guru of Guru Nanak Dev Ji. This is sheer fallacy in light of certain facts which I have incorporated into this article.

http://tisarpanth.blogspot.co.nz/2014/09/the-elephant-in-room-i.html?view=magazine

I don't believe that the Bhagats actually met the Gurus, or all of the Bhagats met the Gurus. I base my assertion on the fact that no substantive chronology of any Bhagat can be established. Other than that, each to his own but Sikhs would do well to remember that the claim, 'all the writings of the Bhagats are in the AGGS,' is extremely exacerbated. There are certain hymns of Bhagat Ravidass, seeing the debate, which are not housed in the AGGS due to their pantheistic content.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 33
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Most of the bhagats had other works, Guruji ONLY included what they found GURMAT.

All dharam have four levels- shariat, tariqat, marfat , hakikat.The way i see its quite simple, all bhagats in gurbani- rejected (or may be transcedent its better term) outer rituals of their dharam -

Only those writings were included in Guru Granth sahib that were in line with Guru sahibans view of sikhism. Not all of Bhagat Kabir's writings are included in SGGS ji.

Only those writings were included in Guru Granth sahib that were in line with Guru sahibans view of sikhism.

Not all of Bhagat Kabir's writings are included in SGGS ji.

It is the same with all Bhagats; so how the myth that the Bhagats were the Gurus' of the Sikh Gurus started is then quite obfuscating.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So, is it possible that Bhagat Ravidass was and remained a Hindu?

That his limited inclusion is an indication of his limited enlightenment?

Dastardhari or otherwise?

No he was not Hindu. He was worshipper of akal Purakh.

Read his shabads wherein he taunts Brahmins for name calling Bhagat ji

for his low caste.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Where has someone or some source claimed that bhagats were the gurus or teachers of gurus ?

I've never felt this impression coming from anywhere

Team Ravidassiya,

So, is it possible that Bhagat Ravidass was and remained a Hindu?

That his limited inclusion is an indication of his limited enlightenment?

Dastardhari or otherwise?

What is Hinduism? And I don't think that Bhagat Ravidass actually wore a dastaar, or if he did he probably wore one associated with the low-castes. For that matter he could have worn a topi.

Link to post
Share on other sites

No he was not Hindu. He was worshipper of akal Purakh.

Read his shabads wherein he taunts Brahmins for name calling Bhagat ji

for his low caste.

Exactly !

This is where us moorakhs go wrong and have to attach the label of family/inherited religion to everyone.

Even Kabirji didn't class himself the same as his master Ramanand; as he spoke against the many blind empty rituals.

He founded a practice of Gurmat that gave him his ultimate realisation, but at the time this gurmat didn't come under any umbrella of current religion.

Link to post
Share on other sites

What is Hinduism? And I don't think that Bhagat Ravidass actually wore a dastaar, or if he did he probably wore one associated with the low-castes. For that matter he could have worn a topi.

OK, I wasn't aware that team ravidassia believe that bhagat was guru of the gurus..........to be honest, .. that is their problem, as we have the current Guru maneyo granth.... that's all I need and the hukam I follow.

I'm not sure about the Topi thing, but you could be correct because I have come across mention of ''seli topi''

I don't know too much about this with regard to history and dastar,.... but I wonder what Guru Nanak wore when he went to Mecaa ?

Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, I wasn't aware that team ravidassia believe that bhagat was guru of the gurus..........to be honest, .. that is their problem, as we have the current Guru maneyo granth.... that's all I need and the hukam I follow.

I'm not sure about the Topi thing, but you could be correct because I have come across mention of ''seli topi''

I don't know too much about this with regard to history and dastar,.... but I wonder what Guru Nanak wore when he went to Mecaa ?

The Nihungs say it was a blue bana, Bhai Gurdass ratifies them on this. Historically during that time period pilgrims to Mecca wore blue and the local authorities had opened it up for all infidels.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok.

I will rephrase the same question.

Is it possible to believe that Bhagat Ravidass was not necessarily a follower of our Guru's ideology but made limited pronouncements of enlightened thought?

Thus not quite a disciple?

Whether he was a Hindu or not is actually irrelevant.

I ask these questions in relation to the original post only.....

Link to post
Share on other sites

All the Bhagats have Bani which is not in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee.

My view on this is: the Bhagat Sahibaan were followers of Gurmat. They became Sikhs of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee who blessed them with Gurmat Naam Dheekhya. And from the day they became Sikhs of Guru Ji, only that Bani was accepted in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee while the Bani they wrote before meeting Guru Nanak Dev Jee was not including. Receiving Dhur Ki Bani is no ordinary event. This Ilaahi Bani descends directly from Sachkhand. Only a person who has reached Brahmgian avastha can receive it.

Last time this debate took a very ugly turn. Some turned it into a caste issue because they did not want a Bhagat who they perceived to be of a lower caste to be considered a Sikh. And among those casteists two people attacked me because they themselves did not wear turban and for this reason made it an issue by attacking me viciously for daring to say the Bhagats wore a Dastar. The worst thing is, they even insulted respected elder Gursikhs of our Panth who also said the same. So I will not debate this issue further.

Link to post
Share on other sites

For those who have studied under the Indian system, they would know that there are several dohay (couplets) of Bhagat Kabeer jee that are taught in schools. These are totally different from the Gurbani Shabads of Bhagat Kabeer jee. Thus it makes it even more clear that at some point some transformation did happen. I may not be the best person to say what exactly, but this could be it...

They became Sikhs of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee who blessed them with Gurmat Naam Dheekhya. And from the day they became Sikhs of Guru Ji, only that Bani was accepted in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee while the Bani they wrote before meeting Guru Nanak Dev Jee was not including.

Last time this debate took a very ugly turn. Some turned it into a caste issue because they did not want a Bhagat who they perceived to be of a lower caste to be considered a Sikh. And among those casteists two people attacked me because they themselves did not wear turban and for this reason made it an issue by attacking me viciously for daring to say the Bhagats wore a Dastar. The worst thing is, they even insulted respected elder Gursikhs of our Panth who also said the same. So I will not debate this issue further.

ਯਾਰ ਇਹ ਇਨਟਰਨੈਟ ਹੈ, ਇਥੇ ਆਕੇ ਗਿੱਦੜ ਵੀ ਗੱਜਣ ਲੱਗ ਪਾਇੰਦੇ ਨੇ | ਤੁਹਾਨੂ ਜੇ ਕਿਸੇ ਜਣੇ-ਖਣੇ ਨੇ ਬਕਵਾਸ ਕੀਤੀ ਵੀ ਹੈ, ਤਾਂ ਇਨਟਰਨੈਟ ਤੇ ਕਿਹੜਾ ਓਹਨੇ ਤੁਹਾਡਾ ਕੁਛ ਪੱਟ ਲੈਣਾ ?
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use