Why Were So Many Indians Loyal To The British Raj

[deepsinghmangat]

India winning its freedom should of bin easy heck their were only 30 to 70 000 englishmen in india depending on the period

96 percent of the soldiers of the british east india company were indians

British used indians to conquere indians

World war one and two saw large indian armies fight for the british rather then freedom

Why did the martial races especially like sikhs show so much loyalty rather then demanding and fighting for independence

Basicully the british used indians to do the tax collecting used indians for enforcing laws used indians as administrators to govern india

Why didn't indians just come together n tell britain to f off

For india to gain its freedom was as easy as stepping on an ant if all indians had decided at once to kick out british

India was wealtheir then europe pre industrial revolution heck the europeans were always trying to find ways to trade with india which led to the discovery of america

Mughals only had bengal thanks to sikhs an marathas

1857 again mostly indian soldiers used to crush the mutiny of having natives rule india

India pakistan bangledesh always had larger populations then all of europe

So how did they allow a lil country like to england come

All the massacores done on british orders were carried out by indians

Reading bhagat singhs writtings he even grew angry with fact how easy it was to over throw the british but how hard it was to get indians together n do this

If 1 percent of the population rebelled an the other 99 percent decided to stay nutral the british would of bin crushed in under 24 hours

[Mehtab Singh]

ਲਗਦਾ ਉਦੋਂ ਦਾ ਫੌਰਨ ਕੰਟਰੀ ਜਾਣ ਦਾ ਭੂਤ ਸਵਾਰ ਸੀ | ਤਾਂ ਹੀ ਵਫਾਦਾਰੀ ਕਰ ਗਏ |

But other than that, seriously speaking, I think the reason could have been the fact that (a.) Sikhs were NOT ready to have a Mughal as the ruler of India, one of the conditions of the 1857 revolt, and (b.) the same Indian soldiers (UP, Bihar, Bengal) who helped the British annex Punjab in 1849 were the ones who started the mutiny, so helping them wasn't an option considered either.

[preetisingh]

many people did start t fight back read this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_independence_movement

[deepsinghmangat]

1857 it was the gorkhas and bengali muslims who made up majority of the soldiers in the british east india army with rest of the soldiers of the british east india army being sikhs whose leaders were loyal to the british an sided with the british an refused to be part of the sikh empire who fought against sikhs in the first and second anglo sikh wars

In 1857 yes the bengali muslim soldiers rebelled but the sikhs still fought along side the gorkhas and the sikhs from south of the sutej river who were loyal to the british during the anglo sikh wars

As well the maratha rebels of 1857 wanted to re establish maratha govt

Heck if sikhs united against the british in 1857 the sikhs itleast would of had their own country easy

[StarStriker]

1857 it was the gorkhas and bengali muslims who made up majority of the soldiers in the british east india army with rest of the soldiers of the british east india army being sikhs whose leaders were loyal to the british an sided with the british an refused to be part of the sikh empire who fought against sikhs in the first and second anglo sikh wars

In 1857 yes the bengali muslim soldiers rebelled but the sikhs still fought along side the gorkhas and the sikhs from south of the sutej river who were loyal to the british during the anglo sikh wars

As well the maratha rebels of 1857 wanted to re establish maratha govt

Heck if sikhs united against the british in 1857 the sikhs itleast would of had their own country easy

Panjabi muslims, sikhs, pathans and the dogra maharaja of jammu/kashmir also supported the british.....and y not? I wudda done exact same thing. Id rather support the ppl who took our rule, than the ppl who backstabbed us (hindus), or the ppl who wanna re-establish their dirty empire (muslims).

Funny isnt it, how whenever this topic comes up, its ALWAYS sikhs who get cussed for helping the brits during the mutiny, when we were not the only ones! All calculated hatred. Jus like how an experienced sikh general left the british ranks n joined the indian liberation army, but wasnt allowed 2 b the leader of it. Just like also how indians keep promoting that bhagat singh wasnt into sikhi again, in his final weeks n hours, when we know he re-grew his guti (top knot). Also his face isnt on indian currency for some reason.

[deepsinghmangat]

got to re organise older post

gurkhas fought in the british east indian army against Sikhs in the first and second anglo Sikh wars

yes so did the Bengali muslims who were the once who rebelled in 1857

but the Sikhs did choose to fight along side gorkhas in 1857 and were not angry at them for anglo Sikh wars including the british east india company that invaded

also it was mostly only Bengali muslims who wanted Mughal empire and marathas who wanted Maratha empire who rebelled against the british

rest of the hindus and muslims of south asia aligned with the british

so no one is trying to put the blame on the sikhs

as well their was no nationhood the Bengalis were seen as foreigners to Sikhs same with the marathas

no different then how an average joe in England in 1865 saw the average joe from Germany as a foreigner

india has a bigger population then Europe and more languages and cultural differences

british controlled what the Sikhs heard about the rebellion it was british propaganda they heard

doesn't make since Sikhs aligned with the british for revenge when the gorkhas invaded and was done so on british orders

over a hundred years ago every govt lied to their people as to root cause of war unless they were being invaded

just like isis lies or Taliban lies or saddam lied

saddam went on tv saying Iraq was winning the war a day before his regime collapsed

plus no TV's no news papers and most ppl could not read or write

in terms of bhagat singh the first time he went to prison he had grown his hair as the pictures show

but second time bhagat singh went to jail he had cut hair and took up atheism and inspired members of his family to take on his communist atheist beliefs

some of his siblings and family members still practise an believe in communism today and were inspired by bhagat singh

bhagat singh's family has also said he died an athiest

plus considering bhagat singh movement was a atheist communist revolution the british would of loved it if bhagat singh wanted to become a baptised Sikh cause this would of bin a stab in the heart

for bhagat singh's friends especially rajguru and sukhdev who remained atheist till they were hung

bhagat singh and his comrades were trying to inspire a cultural revolution as he saw capitalism as a system that encouraged imperialism an exploitation

bhagat singh wanting to become a Sikh again would of bin used by the british to kill the revolution bhagat singh tried to promote

[StarStriker]

so no one is trying to put the blame on the sikhs

in terms of bhagat singh the first time he went to prison he had grown his hair as the pictures show

but second time bhagat singh went to jail he had cut hair and took up atheism and inspired members of his family to take on his communist atheist beliefs

some of his siblings and family members still practise an believe in communism today and were inspired by bhagat singh

bhagat singh's family has also said he died an athiest

plus considering bhagat singh movement was a atheist communist revolution the british would of loved it if bhagat singh wanted to become a baptised Sikh cause this would of bin a stab in the heart

for bhagat singh's friends especially rajguru and sukhdev who remained atheist till they were hung

bhagat singh and his comrades were trying to inspire a cultural revolution as he saw capitalism as a system that encouraged imperialism an exploitation

bhagat singh wanting to become a Sikh again would of bin used by the british to kill the revolution bhagat singh tried to promote

Geezer who r u kidding? No is blaming sikhs regardin 1857 mutiny? If i had a pound for everytime some smelly indian said/told me about how sikhs r "sellouts" for supportin brits, id b a rich bandha. We r usually always reminded by hindus, n by some muslims of how we backstabbed apnay. So i find it hard to believe ur words that "no one is blaming sikhs".

Regarding bhagat singh, u shud read bhai randhir singhs jail chittiyan, where the converation between him and bhagat singh is shown, n how sad he felt. Also revealed how the other revolutionaties were tellin him to cut his hair, n how hindu newspapers were editing their articles, so sikhs were not to look like heroes.

[Mehtab Singh]

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/52322-bhagat-singh-and-the-truth/?p=455635

correct date please Posted by: Mehtab Singh (IP Logged) Date: October 04, 2007 11:47AM

According to Jail Chithiyaan, Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh ji met Bhagat Singh on October 4, 1930, which was exactly 77 years ago from today as today its October 4, 2007. Bhagat Singh wrote an article "Why I am an atheist" and the date given is October 5-6, 1930. I ran a number of searches on Google and a number of sources have the date as October 5-6, 1930. Certain sources also say that Bhai Sahib lost his temper and failed to convince Bhagat Singh, and said to him "You are giddy with fame and have developed and ago which is standing like a black curtain between you and the God". It is believed that Bhagat Singh wrote "Why I am an atheist" in response to Bhai Sahib.

I need the correct date as to when did Bhagat Singh actually wrote that article, as the media and historians use their dates to discredit Bhai Sahib. Jail Chithiyaan states the meeting took place on October 4, 1930, and so the article should have been written before that date, not after as what has been fed to the world.

Re: correct date please Posted by: Mehtab Singh (IP Logged) Date: October 05, 2007 05:09AM

Anyone have any idea about the date? I am asking because this is something which is of concern. Bhai Sahib says it was October 4, 1930 at 6:00 PM, and most other sources on Bhagat Singh, some of which don't even his meeting with Bhai Sahib have the date of Bhagat Singh's article as October 5-6, 1930. There is a clear contradiction and we have to find a real date that should be before October 5-6, 1930, otherwise those guys can get away with their argument that Bhai Sahib failed to convince him, and so Bhagat Singh wrote his article on atheism the very next day after he met Bhai Sahib.

So please understand the seriousness of the contradiction and find me the actual date.

Re: correct date please Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged) Date: October 05, 2007 11:55AM

If Jail Chithiaan is saying that date is October 4 then what can we say. What we can question is that date Communists claim the article to have been written. How do they know that the date is the night of Oct 5 and 6?

One striking thing about Bhagat Singh's last days is that his hair were six inches long. Why would an atheist grow hair? If he did not believe in Sikhi why did he not cut his hair? The granthi who performed the last rites of Bhagat Singh said in a statement that Bhagat Singh's hair were 6 inches long when he died.

What Bhai Sahib has written about Bhagat Singh in Jail Chithiaan book cannot be false because Bhai Sahib was a Sachiyaar (honest, truthful) Sikh who would never write anything false. Bhai Sahib has mentioned that Bhagat Singh agreed in the end that he would never die i.e. Bhagat Singh expressed his belief in aatma (soul). Are we suggesting that Bhai Sahib was lying? No one would dare say that Bhai Sahib used to lie.

One one hand Bhai Sahib has written naming Bhagat Singh and on the other hand Bhagat Singh has not mentioned Bhai Sahib's name. How can the Communists claim that in his article, "Why I am an Atheist", Bhagat Singh is indeed talking about Bhai Sahib? How can they be so sure that the article was written on the night of Oct 5th? Bhagat Singh has not mentioned this in his article. So how do they know about the date. Bhagat Singh has not named Bhai Sahib in his article. Then how can they claim that he is referring to Bhai Sahib?

Kulbir Singh

Re: correct date please Posted by: Mehtab Singh (IP Logged) Date: October 05, 2007 03:33PM

You have some strong points Bhai Kulbir Singh ji. I read "Why I am an atheist" a long time back, and yes you are right it doesn't mention Bhai Sahib anywhere. Bhagat Singh was martyred on the evening of March 23, 1931, which is more than 5 months after he met Bhai Sahib, so he obviously stopped cutting his kesh after meeting Bhai Sahib. Another striking fact is that he admitted to Bhai Sahib that he was an atheist, and since he experienced a transformation after meeting Bhai Sahib on October 4, 1930, the next day October 5, 1930 which is when he supposedly wrote "Why I am an atheist" doesn't make sense and is contradictory.

Thank you for shedding light

Re: correct date please Posted by: Khalsaspirit (IP Logged) Date: October 05, 2007 03:33PM

Waheguru ji ka khalsa

Waheguru ji ki fateh

Khalsa jio,

There were efforts by those INAKLAB ZINDABADI (COM NASHAT) groups to discredit Bhai Sahib's meeting. We think reason was not to discredit the Bhai Sahib but to Shaheed Bhagt Singh's admittance for his mistake. If at time Bhagat Singh's admittance would had become popular then COM NASAT's were in fear of revolt within the party so they raised this proganda with their popular media. Any way truth can not be hide.

We also read in a news paper about 2 years ago that the meeting was also confirmed by a british historian. We do not have that specifics for this news now, We think we should realy keep that news. Earth is round, we will get that information again. Bottom line is stay away from propaganda and trust in Bhai Sahib and Shaheed Bhagat Singh.

Guru Mehar Karay

Waheguru ji ka khalsa

Waheguru ji ki fateh

Re: correct date please Posted by: Mehtab Singh (IP Logged) Date: October 08, 2007 01:00PM

One Gurmukh pyara on Sikhsangat forum posted this:

Sahib Magazine, (a punjabi magazine published from the UK) had a special issue commerating Bhagat Singhs Shaheedi in March 2007. According to the Articles by people in that Bhagat Singh NEVER wrote that article.

According to the article, There was a deal with Gandhi and the British to release all Political prisoners from jail. The Britsh however did not class Bhagat Singh as a political prisoner but as a terrorist (throwing bombs in assembly and the murder of sanders)!! As a terrorist He was not allowed any facilities which were available to political prisoners. These included books, paper writing material.

Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh WAS a political Prisoner. They mention that political prisoners who were allowed these facilities, including themself, still had their letters censored, books seized and writing materials taken away. The theory goes that Bhagat Singh did not write that article or any other as he was not allowed to!!! Instead, Comrades (Communists) who planned to outline Bhagat Singh as one of them and a follower of Arya Samaj wrote these articles and used Bhagat singh's name!! (Just so you know, communists don't believe in God)

According to Sources, Bhagat Singh accepted his mistake for cutting his hair and after meeting Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji, Bhagat Singh decided to grow his hair back!!

Hope this helps...At the end of the day, this MAY just be a theory!!!

( This can be found at

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/31285-correct-date-please/?p=292920 )

Re: correct date please Posted by: Death (IP Logged) Date: October 10, 2007 02:13AM

Haven't you guys read the book? Bhagat Singh began believing in God after Bhai sahib ji convinced him. Bhagat singh also realised the bhai sahib ji had seen God so he too starting believing in Him.

The reason he didn't wear kakaars was because Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji told him to remain like that. Why? he was an athiest, and bhai sahib ji knew that the kakaars will do nothing for him if he did not believe in God - Guru Gobind Singh explains this, that without being pure internally, by keeping the internal rehit, the outer rehit is nothing. Guru Ji gives an example of this by placing a tiger skin on a donkey and sending it into a village.

Anyway, Bhai Sahib ji then knew that he would have to convince him to believe in God, and so he did. It is explained in the book that bhagat ji went into a trance, went for bhai sahib's feet but then fell unconscious. When he awoke he finally believed in God, a afterlife, and the existence of a soul. Bhai Sahib ji finally told him that he will be reborn as a human.

[Mehtab Singh]

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/31285-correct-date-please/?p=297260

We contacted someone who is pro in these matters.

-----------------------

Here's his viewpoint on this topic:

Here I take some quotes from the article “Why I am Atheist” supposedly written Bhagat Singh and try to bring out falsies/inaccuracies, which could not have come from Bhagat Singh’s pen. This document seems to be a doctored one.

Quote:

“My grandfather under whose influence I was brought up is an orthodox Arya Samajist. An Arya Samajist is anything but an atheist. After finishing my primary education I joined the D.A.V. School of Lahore and stayed in its Boarding House for full one year. There, apart from morning and evening prayers, I used to recite "Gayatri Mantra" for hours and hours. I was perfect devotee in those days. Later on I began to live with my father. He is a liberalinas much as the orthodoxy of religions is concerned. It was through his teachings that I aspired to devote my life to the cause of freedom. But he is not an atheist. He is a firm believer. He used to encourage me for offering prayers daily. So this how I was brought up. In the Non-Cooperation days I joined the National College. It was there that I began to think liberally and discuss and criticize all the religious problem, even about God. But still I was a devout believer. By that time I had begun to preserve the unshorn and unclipped long hair but I could never believe in the mythology and doctrines of Sikhism or any other religion. But I had a firm faith in God's existence.”

Comments:

Bhagat Singh’s Grandfather was a Sikh not Arya Samajist. Bhagat Singh’s father and Uncle Sardar Ajit Singh were taken to Anadpur Sahib to take Pahul (Amrit Chakana). It is not mentioned here as what prayers his father asked him to recite. The fact that Sardar Kishan Singh father of Bhagat Singh was Amritdhari is not mentioned. In support here is a quote from Ajit Singh’s Autobiography

Amrit

As a kid I was taken along with my elder brother to Anandpur for the performance of the ceremony of Sikh Baptism which is called Pohal or Amrit chhakna. It was the time of Holi festival which the Sikhs, after their masculine fashion, call Hola. I remember very well the sugar water given to us as a drink for making us Singhs and immortals, A part of it was sprinkled on the faces as a sign of sanctification. This ceremony teaches the person who undergoes ti not to fear death, and to fight against the oppressors, tyrants and the unjust people and to protect the weak, the poor, the old, the children and womenfolk from all sorts of molestation. From that day onward one has to be pure in body and heart. This is why the Sikhs are called Khalsa i.e. pure. After the ceremony is performed those having out-wardly an appearance of the Khalsa but having their hearts and sometime their bodies too full of impurities are a disgrace to the panth and to the sacred cause. [This was] preached by the Guru. On the Hola festival a red colour substance known as Gulal was thrown on the faces and clothes of people joining the festival. It appeared quite lovely to see people with new clothes, faces and bodies besmeared with the red colour, going to Anandpur on a festival for the ceremony of Pohal. Our family from the time of the tenth Guru always took the male members there.

full article will be up on sikhchronicle.com

[Mehtab Singh]

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/59178-was-bhagat-singh-an-atheist/?p=487375

The meeting between Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji and Shaheed Bhagat Singh and the latter's transformation is also detailed and re-confirmed in "Sachi Sakhi" (originally published in 1972) by Sirdar Kapur Singh (ICS) .