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in japji sahib it says "gur esar gur gorakh barmaa gur paarbatee maa-ee" which means guru is shiva, the guru is vishnu and brahma, the guru is paatvati and lakhshmi

btw

not questing bani or anything i just want to understand it more

does this mean that we believe in hindi gods? and guru nanak dev ji is saying they are equivient to him?

and also another question i wanted to add on to this is, throughout guru granth sahib ji mahraj there are references to islam and hinduism but why are there no refernces to other religions such as christianity? im sure mahraj knew it existed.

im not trying to question gurbani i was just curious

thanks

wjkk wjkf

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VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

I like luckysingh's response better, so mine's got to go.

Edited by ms514
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in japji sahib it says "gur esar gur gorakh barmaa gur paarbatee maa-ee" which means guru is shiva, the guru is vishnu and brahma, the guru is paatvati and lakhshmi

btw

not questing bani or anything i just want to understand it more

does this mean that we believe in hindi gods? and guru nanak dev ji is saying they are equivient to him?

ok ji,

Firstly let's just clarify a little here..........

1) Guru Nank ji never called himself a guru and neither is he saying that shiv, vishnu , brahma, laxmi, parvati are the same as him.

let's look at the few previous and corresponding lines with the one you are referring to and I will show a little of my understanding which maybe right or maybe wrong- but either way, i think it has has a little positive impact on my development in sikhi.

ਗਾਵੀਐ ਸੁਣੀਐ ਮਨਿ ਰਖੀਐ ਭਾਉ ॥

Gāvī▫ai suṇī▫ai man rakẖī▫ai bẖā▫o.

Sing, and listen, and let your mind be filled with love.

(Gaviai is to Sing the praises, jap the naam but listen to what ??.....then the following lines go on to explain...)

ਦੁਖੁ ਪਰਹਰਿ ਸੁਖੁ ਘਰਿ ਲੈ ਜਾਇ ॥

Ḏukẖ parhar sukẖ gẖar lai jā▫e.

Your pain shall be sent far away, and peace shall come to your home.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਦੰ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਵੇਦੰ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਮਾਈ ॥

Gurmukẖ nāḏaʼn gurmukẖ veḏaʼn gurmukẖ rahi▫ā samā▫ī.

The Guru's Word is the Sound-current of the Naad; the Guru's Word is the Wisdom of the Vedas; the Guru's Word is all-pervading.

(Gurmukh is Guru's Mukh(mouth), therefore the word that comes from that is the sound current of the naad)..this sound-current is NOT just a sound that you listen to (suniye)....it is also something that can give you all the wisdom of the vedas.

ਗੁਰੁ ਈਸਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੋਰਖੁ ਬਰਮਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਰਬਤੀ ਮਾਈ ॥

Gur īsar gur gorakẖ barmā gur pārbaṯī mā▫ī.

The Guru is Shiva, the Guru is Vishnu and Brahma; the Guru is Paarvati and Lakhshmi.

'ms514' has very nicely explained the triad of Guru being the creator, sustainer and destroyer in ref to this line.

ਜੇ ਹਉ ਜਾਣਾ ਆਖਾ ਨਾਹੀ ਕਹਣਾ ਕਥਨੁ ਨ ਜਾਈ ॥

Je ha▫o jāṇā ākẖā nāhī kahṇā kathan na jā▫ī.

Even knowing God, I cannot describe Him; He cannot be described in words.

So, we should be able to see that these references are incorporated to get the message across to us manmukhs.

These question have to be raised and upcoming younger sikhs shouldn't shy away from clearing doubts.......Not so long ago, i came across a young sikh that would attend mandir every tuesday and give x amount of donation. .. in all honesty, I have no problem or am not against anyone going to church, mandir or whatever.....BUT it's the actual intention that really matters....so when I asked him what his purpose or intention was..?..then he told because he asks for his monetary wealth and good income to keep flowing !!!!.... I didn't even bother asking which murti he makes the offering to.... but then in reply to my raised and wondering eyebrows, he very confidently said that ''All the hindu deities are all in the guru granth sahib and we should respect them'' !!!

You see, it's these kind of blind faith and manmat issues that sneak in amongst us that we need to address in simplistic explanations because a lot of the younger youth don't fancy sitting and learning via a few hours katha..etc..

Edited by luckysingh99
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I think, Guru Jee keeping in mind how moorakhs we are, cause we like to go left and right, instead to look just to the front, keeping Him only as our objective .....

Guru Jee knows, we are weak, and we may some times think looking at other deities in case of emergency .... as we may never know...

So Guru Jee said, no need to look here or there, just knock one door, and stay as a kookar at His door, He is as good as Vishnu, Brahma or Shiva for you, or even as their mother Maya, cause He can bestow you, that what you may seek from these gods, these devis, devtas.....

And not only that, but Sachay Patshah Dhan Dhan Guru Arjun Dev Maharaj, goes one step further and tells some of the countless virtues of that True Guru us in Raag Gond:

guroo guroo gur kar man mor.
Chant Guru, Guru, Guru, O my mind

guroo binaa mai naahee hor.
I have no other than the Guru

gur kee tayk rahhu din raat.
I lean upon the Support of the Guru, day and night.

Then in the mid of this Shabad, He just bursts out, and proudly reveals us the mystery of the mysteries, which no mind can ever understand or imagine:

Gur parmaysar ayko jaan.
Know that the Guru and the Transcendent Lord are One

And so as Wahiguru and His mahima is infinite, in the same way Guru´s mahima, can never be done justice by exressing it in any way:

Gur kee mahimaa kathan na jaa-ay.
The Guru's glory cannot be described.

Sat Sree Akal

Edited by harsharan000
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Dear bdemon,

The way you ask the question, it can seem, that the existence of one Wahiguru is questioned,and maybe that is not your intention, but it sounds so....

But anyhow going to your question, that Wahiguru exists, there is no doubt about it.

Wahiguru is the only permanent, eternal, Truth. And He is best described in the mool manter.

After all, all jeevas, right from the plant kingdom, up to Sach Khand, are nothing but levels of consciousness. Like for example, you take a battery, you have the negative pole, right at the bottom, and the positive pole at the top of the battery. The energy is at the fullest, at the top, and as it starts going downwards by its use, it becomes less and less positive, to the point in the end that it becomes zero when it touches the bottom.

In a similar way, just take this creation as a battery, in which the lower the specie of life, the lower its level of consciousness, on the contrary, the higher the level or state of evolution of that soul, the higher or purer that soul, and as such, its consciousness.

Man is the top of the creation, among all creatures. And this means above all gods, godesses, devis, devtas, angels, celestial beings....

These beings have acheived their present status, because when in human form, they did extremely good karmas, so they are enjoying thier karmas, and once they are finished some day, they will have to come back into this creation, but they do not know in which joonee it can be....

On the other side, if one does not act accordingly to the laws of nature even by being born in a human form, one will fall down to the lower species of lives..... and once again, start its evolution towards upwards, and that may take millions of years, to get the human birth.

This has to be so, beacuse our soul is a particle of Wahiguru, where ever it maybe, its natural tendency is towards its origin which is Wahiguru...so this creation is in a manner a stage, a process of the evoution of the soul, until it becomes one with its Origin, there is no other way.

The Bani tells us: bhaee parapt manukh deh hooriya, Gobind milan kee yeh teree bareeya. This means, you are the most fortunate among the creatures, as you have been blessed by Him with a human life, so this is your chance, to make the most of it, and become one with Wahiguru Akal Purukh, through devotion to Him alone.

The wise ones have stated: jaisa dheeayeh, vaisa hoeeye. This means, as you meditate upon, so you become. You think or are attached to dogs, cats, parrots, gods, devis, devtas ...there you shall go.

Nature satisfies all our desires, so we must be careful upon what we meditate or get attached to.

So in this way, if we love and devote ourselves to Wahiguru only, who is free from births and deaths, who is the highest, naturally, in Him we shall merge.

And so, what is to meditate on Him, or love Him? The Bani tells us: Jin Har japeeya, se Har hoeeya. He who meditaes on Him by His Simran, become one in Him without any distiction, that is His mahanta..... His wadeeayee... we just show Him a sample of our love to Him, and He is so graceful, so merciful, that He just pulls us to His level.

This is what the Bani means, when it says: Jevad Aap, te vad Teree daat. Wahiguru Jee, just as big as You are, so great is your gift of mercy upon us, cause You make us, as big as Yourself.

We have with Him for us, we can become as big and free as Himself, but we moorakhs still look for devis, devtas, gods .....

These gods are nothing, but compared to Him, are His servants carrying out the duties assignated to them, while He Himself is the Emperor, the True King, Sachay Patshah..... Wahiguru Akal Purukh.

These gods, just as an example to illustrate what they are compared to Wahiguru, though the reality is much much higher and superior, they are like a 1 watt bulb at most, while He is not one Sun, but billions and trillions of Suns moons, stars all together and more even than that.... one is left speechless, when coming to terms of His Majesty, His inmensity.

The Bani also tells, there are many creations, and as such, many Brahmas, Shivas and Vishnus exist in each of them, while He is Iko.

The Bani also tells us: Har Iko Daata seviye, Har Iko Daata dhiayeeye. Sabna Jeea ka Iko Daata, so meh visar na jae.

Just imagine, if we are so fascinated by these gods, devis ... devtas, because they may impress us by their powers, so what to say about Wahiguru then, the One who has created, not one, not two, nor three, but countless of these beings, and ven then He is infinitely the most Supreme.... just imagine His power, just imagine His wisdom, His Grace, His beauty, His splendour, His lightning, His refulgence.....

Can we ever comprehend Him adecuately? Nay, never ever ....

He is Alakh, Agam, Oouch, Apaar, Beant Soami..... Wahiiiiiguuuuuuurrrrruuuuuuu.

Sat Sree Akal.

Edited by harsharan000

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When the Siddhs asked Guru Sahib Ji whether they worship any of the devi devte, they replied:

For me, my Guru is my Brahma, my Guru is my Vishnu, my Guru is my Shiv ji etc.

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