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JRoudh

Punjabi Language

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They may have started out as Hindu punjabis or other native indian races. But they were then converted to Islam and mixed with the arab invaders. Because of this they follow Arab traditions, language ect such as urdu.

I dont know what you are as I am not an expert on every Sikhs ancestry.

Speaking for myself, we are are pure Punjabis and our language is not a mix of other languages as is the case of Muslim Punjabis. Ie we have no other influence on our spoken Punjabi. Such as Persian, urdu ect .

Like i sed previously, if panjabi muslims r of arab descent (which they r not), then wat r rest of the other panjabis then? Many sikhs converted from islam in panjab aswel too. The tribes of muslim panjabis r there in sikh panjabis too, they jus call them by diffrnt names (gujjar/jatt/rajah/butts/arain) = (gujjar/jatt/rajput/brahmin/saini) etc. probably 1% of paks r from arab ancestry (syeds), n thats it.

Regarding using persian words, u do realise that sikhi/panjabi itself has many many persian words in it. Nihang, shamsher, dastaar, pur (town), garh (fort/house), gul (flower), aab (water), panj (5), noh (9), sharam, hafta (7 days) etc.

I think u have bought into the propaganda that paks r decendants of arabs bit too much pal.

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I dont think Muslims speak pure or genuine Punjabi because of the them mixing urdu with it and hence they speak a diluted version. They also are arabic origin hence they dont have the full grasp of the language as it is not in their true heritage

Like StarStriker said, there is just so much wrong with what you've written, I don't know where to start. So I won't.

We Sikhs don't own Punjabi, although I think it is more than fair to say we have been, and continue to be, the guardians of the language.

Languages naturally evolve over time and I do think we need to change a little, for our own sakes, because there is perhaps a bit too much overly religious Islamic terms in the language we speak, and I'm not talking about the classical Persian words which form such a rich part of our language and the history of it (including the word 'Punjab' itself). I'm talking about words that I myself, as a Sikh, feel uncomfortable using.

For example, the Punjabi word for bathroom literaly translates as 'the room one goes to prepare onself to read the Namaz'. Should we Sikhs be using words such as this ?

The Punjabi word itself is 'Gusulkhanna'. Now we know that khanna means room so the question is what does 'gusul' mean ?. Well, the word gusul comes from Mohammed and the Quran and it is the purification ritual Muslims must perform before they read their Namaz.

So you see what I;m saying here, as the guardians of the language we need to perhaps set the changes.

This has not changed from the times of the earliest native Punjabis that we are descended from such as the North Indian Hindu Brahmins.

You know full well Roudh that the brahmins themselves and all scholars outrightly reject your brahmin origin claim. Its just a claim that you yourselves constantly make but nobody else ever buys into as all scholars of Sikh history know full well that your people entered the Punjab at the onset of Sikhism after Sri Guru Nanak dev ji's travels into central and south India (and Ceylon).

As for the Pakistani Punjabis themselves, again as StarStriker stated, only a very very small number of them have any Arab blood. The vast majority of them have exactly the same dna as us. For example, the majority of Punjabi Jatts in this world are Pakistani Muslim and they have exactly the same surnames as us, and that is because they are from the same clans / families as us. Another example are the rich industrialists that own all the big businesses in Lahore. They call themsselves 'shaiks' but that is just the Muslim name for Khatri as many of the rich Hindu and Sikh industrialists converted to islam in 1947 rather than give up their vast wealth.

Edited by JagsawSingh

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Tbh khalsa ji, im quite disappointed that sikhs who left w.panjab, n spoke with different vocab/accents, didnt maintain them and speak it proudly n even spread it into wherever they were re-located after partition (panjab/haryana/UP/delhi). Bcoz most khatris for example lived in rawalpindi areas, and moved to delhi, but yet u speak to them, and their panjabi accent has been swallowed up n they have become to absorbed into our accents, which is a huge shame.

Perhaps they were laughed at when they spoke in their actual accent and so tried to adjust with the one spoken around them?

Thats a shame to hear mate, tbh, we r rural waleh, so i have no idea bowt city waleh. Altho i will say this, jalandhar is hindi central, which is sad.

Question is who is to blame this time?

that's because in their rush to comply with perceived success they decide to leave their own roots , 'akaal dakey jini nahin hagae' the other thing I've noticed my Indian cousins cannot read Gurmukhi they can only read hindi script which I find irritating to look at let alone try to read , somehow it feels wrong to me ... maybe the namak <banned word filter activated> aspect of panjabi hindus is in my subconcious mind

I prefer Gurmukhi over Hindi or any other language because Guru Sahib chose Gurmukhi script when writing Gurbani. Also, since I did my Nitnem from a Hindi Gutka for years before I started doing it from a Gurmukhi one, I can vouch for the fact that it makes an ocean of difference when you recite from a Gurmukhi Gutka. Edited by Mehtab Singh
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jkvlondon, on 25 Nov 2014 - 09:07, said:

that's because in their rush to comply with perceived success they decide to leave their own roots , 'akaal dakey jini nahin hagae' the other thing I've noticed my Indian cousins cannot read Gurmukhi they can only read hindi script which I find irritating to look at let alone try to read , somehow it feels wrong to me ... maybe the namak <banned word filter activated> aspect of panjabi hindus is in my subconcious mind.

It's not just Gurmukhi, they don't even understand when I use th above punjabi words. I get really weird looks, when I speak punjabi. Like I'm a dinosaur or something, but this is how I speak it. My husband says where did I learn my punjabi from coz they don't speak like that, and I'm like same as u lot, probably few pinds away.

Edited by simran345

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Like i sed previously, if panjabi muslims r of arab descent (which they r not), then wat r rest of the other panjabis then? Many sikhs converted from islam in panjab aswel too. The tribes of muslim panjabis r there in sikh panjabis too, they jus call them by diffrnt names (gujjar/jatt/rajah/butts/arain) = (gujjar/jatt/rajput/brahmin/saini) etc. probably 1% of paks r from arab ancestry (syeds), n thats it.

Regarding using persian words, u do realise that sikhi/panjabi itself has many many persian words in it. Nihang, shamsher, dastaar, pur (town), garh (fort/house), gul (flower), aab (water), panj (5), noh (9), sharam, hafta (7 days) etc.

I think u have bought into the propaganda that paks r decendants of arabs bit too much pal.

So when the Mughals invaded india did they not mix with the muslims. ie what about the mughal armies that came over to india? where are these people now. did they just go back to iran or the middle east when the were defeated?

Pakistan is a multi-ethnical country. There are many ethnic groups and almost all of them are from different background. Generally the Pakistani people share their heritage with neighboring countries such as Afghanistan, India and Iran. There are also some Arab tribes such as Hashemis, Quraishes and Syeds etc.

So there are millions of Pakistanis who are Iranian origin/descent

And there are millions of Pakistanis who are of Afghan origin/descent

there are millions of Pakistanis who are of Indian origin/descent

There are close to million Pakistanis who are Arab origin

Then there also Pakistanis of African origin located in southern part of the country. Also sizable community of Hazaras who are of Mongol origin.

So Pakistanis are well mixed up society.

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Like StarStriker said, there is just so much wrong with what you've written, I don't know where to start. So I won't.

We Sikhs don't own Punjabi, although I think it is more than fair to say we have been, and continue to be, the guardians of the language.

Languages naturally evolve over time and I do think we need to change a little, for our own sakes, because there is perhaps a bit too much overly religious Islamic terms in the language we speak, and I'm not talking about the classical Persian words which form such a rich part of our language and the history of it (including the word 'Punjab' itself). I'm talking about words that I myself, as a Sikh, feel uncomfortable using.

For example, the Punjabi word for bathroom literaly translates as 'the room one goes to prepare onself to read the Namaz'. Should we Sikhs be using words such as this ?

The Punjabi word itself is 'Gusulkhanna'. Now we know that khanna means room so the question is what does 'gusul' mean ?. Well, the word gusul comes from Mohammed and the Quran and it is the purification ritual Muslims must perform before they read their Namaz.

So you see what I;m saying here, as the guardians of the language we need to perhaps set the changes.

You know full well Roudh that the brahmins themselves and all scholars outrightly reject your brahmin origin claim. Its just a claim that you yourselves constantly make but nobody else ever buys into as all scholars of Sikh history know full well that your people entered the Punjab at the onset of Sikhism after Sri Guru Nanak dev ji's travels into central and south India (and Ceylon).

As for the Pakistani Punjabis themselves, again as StarStriker stated, only a very very small number of them have any Arab blood. The vast majority of them have exactly the same dna as us. For example, the majority of Punjabi Jatts in this world are Pakistani Muslim and they have exactly the same surnames as us, and that is because they are from the same clans / families as us. Another example are the rich industrialists that own all the big businesses in Lahore. They call themsselves 'shaiks' but that is just the Muslim name for Khatri as many of the rich Hindu and Sikh industrialists converted to islam in 1947 rather than give up their vast wealth.

I dont think Jats in pakistan pay as much attention to their clan or caste as you do. Infact pakistani muslims place more importance on religion and marry out of their caste from the UK to Pakistan. I never hear any pakistani muslims boasting about being a Jatt. You may class them as your brothers from paksitan who share your dna. But As a bhatra the vast majority of Sikhs from this group, Maybe a small amount maybe muslims who are Bhat. but who knows what their heritage now after they have bred with the genral muslim population who come from many different ethnicity. Maybe in a pefect world you think the Pakistani jatts only marry within their own caste but that is not the case.

As I have mentioned before Bhatras originate in Punjab from the Punjabi Hindus that lived there and have lived there for centuries before you was even born.

Edited by JRoudh

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So when the Mughals invaded india did they not mix with the muslims. ie what about the mughal armies that came over to india? where are these people now. did they just go back to iran or the middle east when the were defeated?

Pakistan is a multi-ethnical country. There are many ethnic groups and almost all of them are from different background. Generally the Pakistani people share their heritage with neighboring countries such as Afghanistan, India and Iran. There are also some Arab tribes such as Hashemis, Quraishes and Syeds etc.

So there are millions of Pakistanis who are Iranian origin/descent

And there are millions of Pakistanis who are of Afghan origin/descent

there are millions of Pakistanis who are of Indian origin/descent

There are close to million Pakistanis who are Arab origin

Then there also Pakistanis of African origin located in southern part of the country. Also sizable community of Hazaras who are of Mongol origin.

So Pakistanis are well mixed up society.

I dont think Jats in pakistan pay as much attention to their clan or caste as you do. Infact pakistani muslims place more importance on religion and marry out of their caste from the UK to Pakistan. I never hear any pakistani muslims boasting about being a Jatt. You may class them as your brothers from paksitan who share your dna. But As a bhatra the vast majority of Sikhs from this group, Maybe a small amount maybe muslims who are Bhat. but who knows what their heritage now after they have bred with the genral muslim population who come from many different ethnicity. Maybe in a pefect world you think the Pakistani jatts only marry within their own caste but that is not the case.

Mate i think ur living in a coo-ckoo land, if u think Pakistanis dont place any importance on caste/tribes! Here in luton, there used to be 2 pak gangs in 90s, the reds and the yellows! Despite being of the same religion, and coming from the same country, have a guess y they used 2 fight each other? The reds were the "higher" rajahs (rajputs) and the yellows (jatts/gujjars) were the "lower" caste, and they fought over drugs and had fights at skools etc. I have heard umpteen times how pak girls here have run away from home, not bcoz theyve fallen in love with a kaffir, but shes fell for a rajah or a gujjar etc. Google stories of how in pakistan, particularly a case this year, in sahiwal, where a women was killed for marrying out of caste.

Jatts dont pay attention to their caste in pakland? y were these classic movies made then?

Maula_Jutt.jpg

Wehsi-Jutt.png

Regarding the whole ancestory thing u wrote, we have been talking about PANJABI muslim ancestory, not rest of pakistans ancestory. Pathans r from afghanistan, Balochis r same as eastern iranians. Also remember panjab wasnt the mughals base, it was the route into hindustan, their base was always UP (Uttar Pradesh) and Delhi. Oh and mughals were from turkmenistan areas, not from arabia.

Btw nice copy and paste from yahoo answers.

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Maula Jat was a classic movie. I especially loved the character of Noori Nat. The way he gave a murderous smile with a killer expression in his eyes and said in a heavy yet soft voice "navaan aayaa hain sohneya?". Simply fantastic! I loved it so much I tried doing it to a few people, only difference is I looked much more scarier LOLLLL !!!!

But you're right, there are tons of Pakistani Punjabi movies with caste based titles, such as Jatt, Gujjar, etc.

Edited by Mehtab Singh
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Maula Jat was a classic movie. I especially loved the character of Noori Nat. The way he gave a murderous smile with a killer expression in his eyes and said in a heavy yet soft voice "navaan aayaa hain sohneya?". Simply fantastic! I loved it so much I tried doing it to a few people, only difference is I looked much more scarier LOLLLL !!!!

But you're right, there are tons of Pakistani Punjabi movies with caste based titles, such as Jatt, Gujjar, etc.

Haa, u joker. There muchha (moustache) r legendary man, u can tell a lot of saron da tehl went to preserving them!

Edited by StarStriker
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These pictures are nothing to be proud of. They depict a mona who is shaven with blood on a axe.

I think you are forgetting this is a Sikh forum not a place to talk about some muslim tribes and posting pictures of people with axes and blood dripping from them.

Okay so your proud to be a Jat and your also proud of your muslim jatt brothers pakistan for also being jat.

Good for you star striker. It was jat people who were actually the first in india to embrace Islam. Everyone gives a lot of stick to south Indians for converting to Islam. But it was the jatt people who converted to Islam the most. The pakistani jatt probably dont care that your a jat also they probably just see you as another kaffir. why do you care about them so much. but each to their own.

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Check out these 2 most kick @$$ sequences from Maula Jat! Love em!

When I was a kid this was one of my favourite movies. The dialogues are so good

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These pictures are nothing to be proud of. They depict a mona who is shaven with blood on a axe.

I think you are forgetting this is a Sikh forum not a place to talk about some muslim tribes and posting pictures of people with axes and blood dripping from them.

Okay so your proud to be a Jat and your also proud of your muslim jatt brothers pakistan for also being jat.

Good for you star striker. It was jat people who were actually the first in india to embrace Islam. Everyone gives a lot of stick to south Indians for converting to Islam. But it was the jatt people who converted to Islam the most. The pakistani jatt probably dont care that your a jat also they probably just see you as another kaffir. why do you care about them so much. but each to their own.

Mehtab Singh Ji wasn't saying anything about Jatts or promoting them. He literally only posted videos from a Punjabi movie he enjoyed when he was younger that so happens to be about 'Muslim Pakistani Jatts.'

This thread is about Punjabi. Punjabi is also spoken in Pakistan Punjab. Hence why this movie was brought up. It has nothing to do with jaat paat.

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