Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
JRoudh

Punjabi Language

Recommended Posts

Bhatra Punjabi is more clear direct and better prounicated then Muslim Punjabi.

Punjabi knows no religious or caste boundaries. For example, there are 2 or 3 districts in Pakistan where the majority accent / dialect is the same doaba dialect that I speak (for those Muslims originated from Jalandhar which pre-partition had a Muslim majority). Even here in the UK, so many of my wife's Pakistani friends speak exactly the same way that she does. Partition turned everything upside down. For example, I can talk to a Sikh in Delhi and 9 times out of 10 I'll hear a Punjabi voice which history says belongs in Lahore. Then again I can go deep into Pakistan into Faisalabad and talk to a Muslim there but 9 times out of 10 I'll hear a Punjabi voice that history says belongs in Jalandhar. It is a special language. It knows no caste or creed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes I know what you mean and that is a very sweet mitti mitti Punjabi but I would wander if that is the way Punjabi is supposed to be. You see, as well as being a truly ancient language (900 years older than Hindi and 1900 years older than Urdu) Punjabi is truly unique in that it is the only tonal language in the whole of south Asia. In that tonal regard, it is one of a rare select group of very few languages including Finnish and some Chinese languages). I would suggest that it is supposed to be spoken in the way that South Koreans speak their language...i.e with loud emotion and pitches which give the outsider the impression that the speaker is arguing. I'm really not a fan of this whole monotone emotionless mitti style thats creeping in with the influence of Hindi and Urdu. Thats not the way Punjabi is supposed to be spoken.

My Mum's nanakey is lahut badhi and my Mamey fro that pind speak animatedly like most punjabis but they use language which seems more in common with the style of nihangs i.e. no swearing and mitta in terms of not boastful, loud or brash i.e. more like Guru ji's advises us to speak . Of course My family includes those who talk in 'dus pind avaz' even off the phone my saki Masi is one, she's toned down since coming back from Jalandhar but slips back. I enjoy listening to tet Punjabi it is karrahri

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes I know what you mean and that is a very sweet mitti mitti Punjabi but I would wander if that is the way Punjabi is supposed to be. You see, as well as being a truly ancient language (900 years older than Hindi and 1900 years older than Urdu) Punjabi is truly unique in that it is the only tonal language in the whole of south Asia. In that tonal regard, it is one of a rare select group of very few languages including Finnish and some Chinese languages). I would suggest that it is supposed to be spoken in the way that South Koreans speak their language...i.e with loud emotion and pitches which give the outsider the impression that the speaker is arguing. I'm really not a fan of this whole monotone emotionless mitti style thats creeping in with the influence of Hindi and Urdu. Thats not the way Punjabi is supposed to be spoken.

I keep hearing that Punjabi is tonal, but I have my doubts. I can think of maybe two words in Punjabi that is tonal. Please give me some examples of Punjabi words which people think can be tonal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I keep hearing that Punjabi is tonal, but I have my doubts. I can think of maybe two words in Punjabi that is tonal. Please give me some examples of Punjabi words which people think can be tonal.

You'll have to ask a linguist, my friend, for I am just a curious amateur historian but I'm sure you'll agree that if our rhythm, pitch and length of delivery changes the meaning of a word than it must be a tonal language ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You'll have to ask a linguist, my friend, for I am just a curious amateur historian but I'm sure you'll agree that if our rhythm, pitch and length of delivery change the meaning of a word than it must be a tonal language ?

Yes, I will ask a linguist:). Rhythm and pitch are just accents, and that is not tonal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes, I will ask a linguist:)

Yes, ask a cunning one like yourself.

Rhythm and pitch are just accents,

No. Accents are just accents. Accents don't change the meaning of a word. Its just the same word said in a different accent.

Do you not speak Punjabi ?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Punjabi knows no religious or caste boundaries. For example, there are 2 or 3 districts in Pakistan where the majority accent / dialect is the same doaba dialect that I speak (for those Muslims originated from Jalandhar which pre-partition had a Muslim majority). Even here in the UK, so many of my wife's Pakistani friends speak exactly the same way that she does. Partition turned everything upside down. For example, I can talk to a Sikh in Delhi and 9 times out of 10 I'll hear a Punjabi voice which history says belongs in Lahore. Then again I can go deep into Pakistan into Faisalabad and talk to a Muslim there but 9 times out of 10 I'll hear a Punjabi voice that history says belongs in Jalandhar. It is a special language. It knows no caste or creed.

I dont think Muslims speak pure or genuine Punjabi because of the them mixing urdu with it and hence they speak a diluted version. They also are arabic origin hence they dont have the full grasp of the language as it is not in their true heritage. they speak a hindi /urdu punjabi hybrid language. ie they lost the original form of the language when the mughals converted them to islam and hence they mixed the arabic languages.

Bhatras on the other hand speak Punjabi like its meant to be spoken with correct pronunciation and passion. This type of Punjabi cannot be learned. It is passed on from generation to generation.I have never met a punjabi Hindu/muslim or anyone that can speak as eloquently or correctly as Bhats. This is because by profession we were poets/bards. We were known to be very good at talking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, ask a cunning one like yourself.

No. Accents are just accents. Accents don't change the meaning of a word. Its just the same word said in a different accent.

Do you not speak Punjabi ?

As you said, you are not a linguist, so let it go.

Yes, I am a very good Punjabi speaker.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For some reason I've always felt that the Punjabi spoken in Pakistan is comparatively "softer" and/or "sweeter" than what we speak in East Punjab, as ours seems to be more "aggressive" in one way or another. Even in Gurbani you'd find dialects of Punjabi spoken in various regions of Punjab. For example, Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach, Hosi is typical Lahori Punjabi and is still spoken by Sikhs who moved from Pakistan in 1947. Then we have Ann Devta Paani Devta Baisantar Devta Loon, here Loon refers to salt, the Doabi accent, while Malwai would be Noon.

This reminds me of a real life funny incident. A very close friend of mine who happens to be from my neighboring pind in Doaba was a student at Guru Nanak Dev University in Amritsar. Now this guy is an Amritdhari Singh, and what you'd call a darshani Singh (i.e. proper Gursikh). When he moved to Amritsar, he had an issue with the slang. One day he commented "chalo kothhay te challiye", now "kothha" in Doaba would mean terrace, but in Amritsar it meant sort of an inappropriate dance bar where girls would do mujra, the same word they use in Bollywood as well. So his buddies cracked up and said "yaar dekhan nu te tu gyani aa, te galla kothhay diyaan!"

I always found this not just funny but also very cool and interesting how one word in a particular language or dialect within a single language could have a completely different meaning in another language or sub-dialect.

By the way, here is another interesting video from apna Stephen...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont think Muslims speak pure or genuine Punjabi because of the them mixing urdu with it and hence they speak a diluted version. They also are arabic origin hence they dont have the full grasp of the language as it is not in their true heritage. they speak a hindi /urdu punjabi hybrid language. ie they lost the original form of the language when the mughals converted them to islam and hence they mixed the arabic languages.

.

So much wrong with that u have written.

1st of all panjabi muslims r not of arab origin, if they r, then wat r we? We have same surnames, blood/dna n features as they do. Also id say that them not havin a full grasp of panjabi is bit unfair, since a lot of poetry/stories written in panjabi folklore r by panjabi muslims. And they only started losing their love for panjabi during the 1920's onwards, as the muslim league were tryin 2 put panjabi muslims on a seperate path to sikh n hindu panjabis, which would lead to clear segregation n eventually a seperate homeland, which turned out to be a great tactic by them. If anything, hindus gave up panjabi earlier than muslims of panjab. The village type muslims carried on speakin panjabi tho, as they, like sikhs, were more village orientated, compared to hindus, who have always been more urbanfied. Then after partition, the pak panjabis completely abondoned panjabi, shamelessly. A pak commentator (tareq fata)summed it up well, wen he says, that ppl in power have made w.panjab into urdustan, and will only speak panjabi, wen they shout at their house cleaner, or wen theyve drank some fine wine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

will only speak panjabi, wen they shout at their house cleaner, or wen theyve drank some fine wine.

That is true for urban Punjabis in north India as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For some reason I've always felt that the Punjabi spoken in Pakistan is comparatively "softer" and/or "sweeter" than what we speak in East Punjab, as ours seems to be more "aggressive" in one way or another. Even in Gurbani you'd find dialects of Punjabi spoken in various regions of Punjab. For example, Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach, Hosi is typical Lahori Punjabi and is still spoken by Sikhs who moved from Pakistan in 1947. Then we have Ann Devta Paani Devta Baisantar Devta Loon, here Loon refers to salt, the Doabi accent, while Malwai would be Noon.

Tbh khalsa ji, im quite disappointed that sikhs who left w.panjab, n spoke with different vocab/accents, didnt maintain them and speak it proudly n even spread it into wherever they were re-located after partition (panjab/haryana/UP/delhi). Bcoz most khatris for example lived in rawalpindi areas, and moved to delhi, but yet u speak to them, and their panjabi accent has been swallowed up n they have become to absorbed into our accents, which is a huge shame.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is true for urban Punjabis in north India as well.

Thats a shame to hear mate, tbh, we r rural waleh, so i have no idea bowt city waleh. Altho i will say this, jalandhar is hindi central, which is sad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thats a shame to hear mate, tbh, we r rural waleh, so i have no idea bowt city waleh. Altho i will say this, jalandhar is hindi central, which is sad.

that's because in their rush to comply with perceived success they decide to leave their own roots , 'akaal dakey jini nahin hagae' the other thing I've noticed my Indian cousins cannot read Gurmukhi they can only read hindi script which I find irritating to look at let alone try to read , somehow it feels wrong to me ... maybe the namak <banned word filter activated> aspect of panjabi hindus is in my subconcious mind

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So much wrong with that u have written.

1st of all panjabi muslims r not of arab origin, if they r, then wat r we? We have same surnames, blood/dna n features as they do. Also id say that them not havin a full grasp of panjabi is bit unfair, since a lot of poetry/stories written in panjabi folklore r by panjabi muslims. And they only started losing their love for panjabi during the 1920's onwards, as the muslim league were tryin 2 put panjabi muslims on a seperate path to sikh n hindu panjabis, which would lead to clear segregation n eventually a seperate homeland, which turned out to be a great tactic by them. If anything, hindus gave up panjabi earlier than muslims of panjab. The village type muslims carried on speakin panjabi tho, as they, like sikhs, were more village orientated, compared to hindus, who have always been more urbanfied. Then after partition, the pak panjabis completely abondoned panjabi, shamelessly. A pak commentator (tareq fata)summed it up well, wen he says, that ppl in power have made w.panjab into urdustan, and will only speak panjabi, wen they shout at their house cleaner, or wen theyve drank some fine wine.

They may have started out as Hindu punjabis or other native indian races. But they were then converted to Islam and mixed with the arab invaders. Because of this they follow Arab traditions, language ect such as urdu.

I don’t know what you are as I am not an expert on every Sikhs ancestry.

Speaking for myself, we are are pure Punjabis and our language is not a mix of other languages as is the case of Muslim Punjabis. Ie we have no other influence on our spoken Punjabi. Such as Persian, urdu ect.

This has not changed from the times of the earliest native Punjabis that we are descended from such as the North Indian Hindu Brahmins.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  



  • Topics

  • Posts

    • A friend with psychic abilities once visited our house and could describe seeing Shaheed Singhs. She referred to them dressed in blue, metal ring around the turban (chakar) etc. 
    • yes I am over 30 now, I only started searching for a life partner from last 9-10 months approx. spoke to few girls regarding this but haven't been lucky yet to find the right one. because there were few issues like moving overseas problem and not having similar beliefs etc. everything takes times I guess.  I do get a quite few proposals for the arrange marriage but its not very convincing to me. i would like to get to know someone before I share my life with someone. you don't get much chance in arrange marriage, everything is so quick and pushy.  moreover, this covid thing is around and not sure how long it will last. its just easy if I find someone here.  and I am sure with Waheguru's Kirpa t will happen soon. something I have some scenarios or questions I just ask sangat for their views. its really helpful this forum. wjkk wjkf ji
    • Thank you veer ji.  Rab rakha  Waheguru ji ka khalsa  Waheguru ji ke fateh  
    • Yes... we are glad to have this Sangat's support here You are doing great veer ji..Keep it up  
    • First of all, well done for getting out of the life. You are doing the right thing, and setting an example for your children. That is a great thing, and more of our community here needs to make an effort like you have. Unfortunately due to the culture, movies/media and music these youngsters are heavily and easily influenced to take part in this lifestyle. The truth is most of them will end up dead/in jail due to lack of connections and having no clue what they are getting involved in. All these movies make this lifestyle look cool and easy, but it is far from that. I have been also trying to live on a good path that is why I am here also. Learning as much as I can and trying to become a better person in life.  -- let me just comment on this to give everyone here a better perspective on things and how deep and complicated this all is.. No offense but most of the guys from Surrey in general are very unorganized and lack solid connections. They end up dealing with 3rd parties for products who are very far "down the line". Most of those small Surrey crews like you describe are considered at the bottom of the barrel. Other than the Brothers Keepers who are semi organized.. like someone said earlier in this thread they have made efforts to expand into Kelowna and elsewhere. They are stepping on a lot of toes and probably wont last that long due to their hot hotheadedness, internal fighting, flashy lifestyles and lack of respect. The real "higher up" and well connected Punjabi gangsters mostly reside in Richmond and Vancouver.  I have been around a long long time, and have associates who have been "in the game" since the early 90s. Most of the "big timers" do direct business with the Bikers (HA), because the HA has market share throughout most of Canada on Cocaine and Marijuana. The HA control the ports of Vancouver and that is how most of the Coke gets into the city. Direct off the boat from South American producers/family cartel organizations. The HA are able to set the lowest prices in the city for the kilo due to this. Whereas Chinese gangs and others have to go through California and pay a high premium (from Cali Mexican Cartels, who are also paying a premium from Domestic Mexican Cartels who are in turn getting it from South Americans) for it. You can see now how far down the line those low level groups are when you understand this. VS. the HA who have direct access to shipments coming in from South America to the ports via well established connections with families in South America who produce the stuff.  Some of the Chinese and surrey guys have at times tried to cross the California Mexican Cartels by going straight to Mexico, in an effort to get cheaper prices and compete with HA on some level and all of them have ended up dead (articles will be posted below) usually while they are in Mexico trying to negotiate deals. Not to mention these low level groups take a bigger risk smuggling across the US/CAN borders, after organizing deals in California. RCMP has known all this for years regarding biker monopoly and control over the ports and has not been able to do anything for various reasons. High level corruption and lack of oversight. The HA control the longshoreman union (ILWU Local 502). If you want to become a longshoreman at the ports in Vancouver, you will be going through the HA.  Not everyone in the longshore is doing business with them, there are a ton of Punjabi there and regular folks in general just making an "honest dollar" but the people who run the union are all HA.  My friends never dealt with Black gangs though I can attest to that ( there has been an influx lately from out of town blacks trying to set up in BC over the past 10 years) From California, Seattle and trying to get a slice of the pie by bringing in their family from Nigeria and Somalia to do the dirty work. Never dealt with them because of their flash and lifestyle. Most of them are not very good businessmen and prone to quick thoughtless violence.  Also never dealt with Chinese, and most of the high level Chinese gangs don't like Punjabis at all. They look down on us. They don't have access to the Bikers product and have to resort to smuggling over the border also just like low level Punjabi trucker gangs in Surrey. This is why many low levels groups out in Surrey work with Chinese. HA keeps tight circles, you must either be in longshore for years and know some as friends or be introduced by family. There are a ton of Surrey guys at longshore and they dont have any access because they are not tight with those circles. Most of the Punjabis in those HA circles are from Richmond/Vancouver and have a long history with them from prior family members etc. However the HA are not racists like the media puts them out to be. Most of them are some of the nicest folks youll ever meet, just dont get on their bad side and cross them. If you do straight up business with them and dont cross them you will be ok most of the time. Unfortunately they have a lot of enemies and chances are you could end up dead as a result of getting involved with them. An example is a good friend of mine who happened to be a Surrey guy and was the first fully patched HA member.  Suminder Grewal. (https://vancouversun.com/news/crime/notorious-biker-gang-opens-new-hells-angels-chapter-in-lower-mainland) Unfortunatly only two years after being patched in he was killed in broad daylight last year at Starbucks while sitting in his Dodge Viper in the drive through. The murder was connected to local Chinese who hired some out of town kids to do the job for them (https://vancouversun.com/news/crime/suspects-named-in-south-surrey-homicide-of-hells-angel) the kids are in custody now after being caught and charged for this murder. The Chinese were very threatened by the fact a Punjabi was doing business with HA and got patched in as a member (HA would never patch in a Chinese member. They get along with us much better and understand our culture) and really could not stomach the fact they were losing power in the lower mainland due to this. After that Vancouver Sun article went out, Suminder had a target on his back. Suminder had began to make an effort to make peace between the Brothers Keepers and the HA (prior to Suminder, they did not get along or speak at all). Also tried to set them up as "runners" for their product because he had access to better cheaper product from the HA lines and they had a large clientele base in Surrey. Things were looking good for both sides at one point. No more beef between Brothers Keepers and HA, and Suminder could move the HA product at a faster rate. Prior to Suminder the Brothers Keepers had to smuggle over the border via their trucking businesses (many BK are involved in trucking industry and have family members making trips across the border frequently anyway) or deal with Chinese who also smuggle product over. By killing Suminder, Brothers Keepers only link to the HA was severed. They now have to resort to getting product from Chinese who are also smuggling and paying a premium again or smuggle themselves and sell what they can to Chinese gangs. Chinese gangs are using most of these low level Punjabi Crews in Surrey as pawns to be honest. I wouldnt trust them one bit. Chinese would never bring a Punjabi into their crew, only do business thats it. They don't work together because they like each other, they work together because they have no choice.  Also most of these guys who try to smuggle across the border get caught at one point or another and its much much higher risk than dealing with HA.  So this is where we are today. Suminder dead, BK and HA not speaking again. BK is falling apart... many of their leaders have already been killed off due to their own internal fighting and nonsense. Like I was saying earlier, these younger guys from Surrey wont last in the game and they are usually the ones who are dying because of the lack of organization and connections.  Suminder getting killed was a big deal, a full patch HA has not been killed in BC like this ever. Someone was sending a message. Bottom line from what I have learned it is best to stay as legitimate as possible and not involve yourself or family in these things. The drug game is brutal. There are so many variables that could have massive repercussions on you and your family. I know so many who have died over the past 20 years, its really sickening to think about.    Suminders Funeral took place at Riverside Funeral home ( a place ran by Punjabis, where my grandfather had his service and many other of my family members)... It was a large funeral with many HA present.  https://vancouversun.com/news/crime/hells-angels-pay-respects-to-slain-biker-suminder-grewal    Brothers keepers founder Gavin Grewal killed:  https://www.abbynews.com/news/man-killed-in-north-vancouver-had-strong-links-to-abbotsford-gang-activity/ https://vancouversun.com/news/staff-blogs/real-scoop-guilty-pleas-in-brothers-keepers-gang-attack#:~:text=Two days after Brothers Keepers,to battle on Vancouver streets.&text=The attack was part of,to be an inside job. Shortly after he was killed his brother was also killed: https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/murder-victim-brother-of-gang-boss-slain-last-december Example of low level Punjabi gangs going to Mexico to cut deals behind California Mexican Cartels back: https://vancouversun.com/news/crime/former-vancouver-gangster-murdered-in-mexico-after-brothers-killed-in-b-c https://vancouversun.com/news/crime/another-b-c-gangster-shot-to-death-in-mexico Hells Angels control the ports: https://nationalpost.com/news/metro-vancouver-docks-special-investigation-768024 http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Crime+Waterfront+When+Hells+Angel+nominates+another+Hells+Angel/11050005/story.html https://www.vice.com/en/article/bn3vnq/how-the-hells-angels-conquered-canada  
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use