Casteism Eating Up Sikhism+ Matrimonial Issues

[SheikhYoBooty]

Preeet what caste did u say u were again?

A proud Hindu caste system supporter like u shouldn't be frightened to reveal your beloved caste!

In Pakistan they hate all what they call as chuhra and don't let them into Mosques so they all have to be Christians.

Hindu's like the Muslims spit on Balmiki's. But Guru Gobind Singh Ji said Rangreta Guru ka Beta.

Guru's were not Khatri. As Bhalla and Trehan and Sodhi were not Khatri but sat Shudra clan names.

But anti-Sikh writers just wrote them all up as Khatri just because Bedi was a Khatri got.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji rejected being a Khatri by tearing off the janeu and saying they had no caste.

Guru Arjan Dev Ji and Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji Mahals was totally from different tribes.

Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji wife and mother of Guru Gobind Singh Ji was Mata Gujjar Kaur who was from the Gujjar tribe.

So it proves all our Guru Sahibaan had no caste, despised the caste system and did not belong to it.

[Guest MazhabiSingh]

SheikhYoBooty,

First you say Guru Sahibs weren't Khatri and they were sudras, and then you say Guru Sahib tore the janeu which is supposed to be for Khatris. Please makeup your mind first and tomorrow you would call Guru Sahib chamars etc. If they were not khatris, then why did they tear janeus? Guru sahibs were high caste Hindus.

Sudras don't wear janeus so why would they tear them.

And Rangretta Guru Ka Beta was good enough for Gurus to take his blood but not good enough good for making Gurus of Sikhism. Gurus still had to be khatris and from the same family or extended family. This was derawaad of today where 8 year old becomes a guru but not someone from lower caste. Nirankaris do the same, first father, then his son and his son and the lineage goes on of derawaad.

Same thing our gurus did. I am sorry if you don't like but can we observe any different.

[Kira]

I thought Sri Mata Sahib Devan becomes our Mata ji because she is the mother of Khalsa.

Why should it matter to you for you caste system>everything else.

Edit: yes Mata Sahib was called the Mother of the Khalsa. However in some cases Mata Sundri Ji was also called Mother as a mark of respect of her union to the 10th master.

Way to generalize...!

He just destroyed your arguments in one swoop. You'll still stay in denial and deny Gurbani and History as you're more concerned with being Punjabi than being a Sikh, but that's alright my fellow Hindu Sister. He hasn't generalized anything. Guru Nanak Dev Ji did reject the thread and as a result rejected the Caste System. As did every other Guru Sahib. The only person who sees Castes are people like you that use the shroud of equality to hide the false pride you have in your caste.

[Kira]

I had no argument to start with! I ain't arguing with anyone. So I don't know who he is actually arguing with.

Strange how you responded to it then

You didn't even know that Sri Mata Sahiba Devan was the mother of Khalsa, so there you go.

yeah. I dont think you have any right to call anyone out considering you don't even bother to learn who certain Bani was written by, But hey I made a mistake and I was willling to accept it, was having a very interesting discussion with another USER about Mata Sundri so her name was on my fingertips. But oh well as usual you think everyone else is at fault and you're once again right. That's ok. Funny how you decide to miss out the fact she had KAUR in her name since that was also an extremely important part of her identity.

It's alright my Hindu Sister. You just stick to bathing in your Ganges. Who knows, maybe it might wash out the conflicting ideologies that are clearly dancing in your mind :swing:

[Quantavius]

@Quantavius, how much capability has a 8 year old has that he is made Guru. It is a sad state when you don't find anybody more able than a 8 year old child.

I wouldn't know. This is a spiritual/divine position and not physical like a CEO of a company. I'm assuming the requirements are very different. He may have been an 8 year old but he possessed divinity that the normal person did not have. IMHO our Gurus are not to be compared to the average person. IMHO our Gurus were divine and are simply not comparable to the average person, no matter how spirituality elevated that average person is (Baba, Sant...etc,etc).

The Guruship is not an elected position nor is it a material one. Only the the previous Guru could determine who would be the next Guru.

Why don't we admit that it was basically family tradition of making gurus like Nirankaris and other deras, was existing even at times of Gurus.

See above for answer. I believe Guru Nanak Dev Ji and Guru Guru Gobind Singh Ji were not from the same family.

When other Gurus didn't give Guru Status to Guru Granth Sahib, why did Guru Gobind Singh did it? Was it because he didn't want to give us Mazhabis their share and now when time had come to offer Guruship, he made GGS as Guru which his elders gurus didn't do it? Didn't he go against wishes of Guru Arjun Dev Ji? We gave lots and lots of blood for Gurus to get discrimination in return and woefully sidelined today. What about Gurusahib giving Kalgi to Bhai Sangat Singh?. Doesn't giving Kalgi mean giving guruship ?

If I'm not mistaken SGGS Ji was not complete until maybe the 6th of 7th Gurus time? I'm not sure. As for 'next in line', Mazbhis were definitely not 'next in line'. It was most likely the Jatts followed by others like the Shimbe...etc, etc. and then only the Mazhbis, if you want to think along those lines.

The Guruship is not a material position. It is not to be compared to a Manager at a company or even CEO of a Corporation. It is a spiritual position that only the previous Guru could determine who would be the next. Heck, even in the material world, you can't go to a company and tell them that you're 'next in line' for a Management position simply because you're a Mazhbi.

What was there to be gained by maintaining Guruship in one family? So that they can be wiped out later? That is simply not worth it. Are you aware of the sacrifices our Gurus made?

Also as to SGGS Ji Maharaj being made Guru, perhaps this could have been Guru Nanak Dev Ji's ultimate plan? In Sikhism we believe all our Gurus are of the same 'jot'.

The problem is that in your mind you are comparing Guruship to a material position in our everyday lives and you're overlooking the divinity of our Guru's. Secondly, you have a huge chip on your shoulder. As a Mazhbi, you're probably expecting some sort of affirmative action plan for Mazhbi's to obtain a position despite not being qualified for it. I'm sorry this is not how the real world works. Also, religion is a private organization and not a public entity. Either you choose to believe it or you don't. Nobody is forcing you to accept Sikhism. You are definitely treated equally. You are free to go and create your own religion and make yourself the leader. Nothing stopping you.

Bhai Buddha was a Jatt who served 4 Gurus yet you don't hear the Jatts complaining why was there no Jatt Guru. Ditto for all other castes. IMHO you have a huge chip on your shoulder hence your blind spot.

[Guest Jyotsaroop]

SSA to all ji we all are punjabi ,Gursikhs our our Guruji n Singh n Kaur r our Identity n Dhan Dhan Sri guru Govind Singh ji Guru ji said who r bleased wid Amrit di Daat become Khalsa n said ..Khalsa Mero Roop Hai Khaas" . But the thing here is All our Guru Sahiban through their Gurbani have enlighten us that we All belong to ONE Father our WAHEGURU ji . HE has different names but we all r one n belong to One WAHEGURU even the other states n countries who have different Races the whole world .... Universe belongs to one God .Dhan Dhan Dasan Patshayiyan di jyot Sri Guru Granth Sahibji is for whole humanity For Hindu Muslims Sikh Isai for all have the message of Equality n give us the message of to think above caste color religion status language their shouldn't be discriminationon the basis of caste color religion or Race .Our all Guru Sahiban did lots of sacrifices for equality date y Wenever anybody needed help they did sacrifices of life For peace like Dhan Sri Guru Arjan Dev ji , Dhan Sri Guru tech Bahadar ji n Dasam pita Sacrifices HIS whole family ,all bhagat Jan whose Bani is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji All belong to different states religion ..Kabir Namdev Ravidas Dhanna others too n even in Gurudwara sahib the sangat , Pangat, n langar any person sits in pangat n take langar above the Hinduism Sikhism nobody ask which caste you belong n Sri Harmandir sahib ji has four doors for whole world to come of any caste color religion race so we shouldnt argue n should follow our Guru sahibans teaching of equality...for WAHEGURU ji all His Children r equal HE loves all equally.EK PITA EKAS KE HUM BARIK .. Even true Gursikh Bhagat puran Singh ji we all know How he served humanity poor handicap people His whole life was for SeWA of humanity.. .. Caste color religion will remain here in this world.. PlZ extremely sorry if I wrote anything wrong but we respect all religion They all Call god by different name but shrada bhavna is same be WAHEGURU OM RAM ALLAH GOD n others too but wen we learn or understand the messages of all Religions n Their holy Book we cm to know we all belong to same WAHEGURU ..Man tu Jyot SAROOP hai Apna MOOL Pacahaan""...This is what Gurbani say ..AwAL Allah Noor upaya..Kudrat ke sab bande ..EK NOOR te Sab Jag upjeya kaun bhale ko Mande.... ..Bhul chukk muaaf..WJKK.WJKF

[jkvlondon]

@Quantavius, how much capability has a 8 year old has that he is made Guru. It is a sad state when you don't find anybody more able than a 8 year old child. Why don't we admit that it was basically family tradition of making gurus like Nirankaris and other deras, was existing even at times of Gurus.

When other Gurus didn't give Guru Status to Guru Granth Sahib, why did Guru Gobind Singh did it? Was it because he didn't want to give us Mazhabis their share and now when time had come to offer Guruship, he made GGS as Guru which his elders gurus didn't do it? Didn't he go against wishes of Guru Arjun Dev Ji? We gave lots and lots of blood for Gurus to get discrimination in return and woefully sidelined today. What about Gurusahib giving Kalgi to Bhai Sangat Singh?. Doesn't giving Kalgi mean giving guruship ?

I think Brother you need to calm down and stop thinking from your casteist standpoint , How dare you Question Guru Sahib on decision of giving GuruGaddi to Guru Harkrishan Ji , you should be ashamed of yourself if you truly are the Guru's Sikh for saying that. What ever happens is with Akal Purakh's intention behind it . How do you know maybe last time around you were one of those high caste people and misused others thus have been put in your karmic place now ? Whatever it is , Guru ji has given the true way out by taking Amrit , so why do you still insist on using a special title for yourself ...you are a sikh FULL STOP no pre-condition, no post condition . My ancestors may have been jat doesn't mean that is all I can be ...I am NOT a Hindu to be tied to Manusmitri and its vile anti-dharmic attitudes , I am DasMesh Pita ji di beti and I am all-in -one I do my own dirty work and respect all , none are above me, none below , All are my siblings and I have been given sovereignity over my own destiny by Guru ji

[SheikhYoBooty]

Brothers and sisters please do not feed this pathetic anti-Sikh troll.

Please can you delete any of his anti-Sikh quotes from your posts.

Hopefully mods and admin will see this Hindu troll Tari Kumar for what he is trying to do on this thread.

He is pretending to be from the same ancestry as Bhai Jiwan Singh but his only ancestry is that of a Hindu.

He can't understand how throwing off a janeu means one cannot be Khatri any more.

Khatri were ordinary vaishya traders in reality so hardly could be called a so-called high caste.

Sikhi says that Bhai Lalo Ji and Bhai Jiwan Singh Ji are higher than high caste Hindu+Muslim kings!

He doesn't even realise that Bhalla, Trehan and Sodhi were considered as sat Shudra clans before the Mughals started to falsely label all our Guru Sahibaan and their Mahal as Khatri in order to destroy the impact of Sikhi in attacking matrimonial apartheid.

Gujjars are despised in India to this day and were classed as a criminal tribe.

But Sikhi shows that via Amrit caste is destroyed and Mata Gujjar Kaur + Bhai Jiwan Singh Ji were among the highest.

What this troll doesn't realise is that in Mughal India becoming Guru of the Sikhs was a death sentence.

The Sangat themselves wanted Guru Har Krishan Ji to take over GurGaddi after seeing the level of their seva for the poor and the sick and assuming that the Mughals would not make the young Guru shaheed as they did to Guru Arjan Dev Ji . Bearing in mind that at the time Guru Tegh Bahadur were in samadhi and other Gurmukhs were too humble to accept GurGaddi.

[Kira]

Saw my name in his post, so I responded. Go ahead and say nonsense, I really am not bothered because you aren't a Sikh.

>Claims bathing in the Ganges purges people of sins

>Ignores any gurbani that contradicts thats her views

And I'm the one that's not a Sikh. lmao. OK My dear Hindu Sister. You're the one sole truth in this world!

[simran345]

Episode two started then ?