Christmas Trees In Houses Of Sikhs

[ghettosikh]

For my family christmas is jus a normal day we dnt celebrate it all lol when i used to be in school it was just a day off and i would spend it jus going about my normal buisness like i would on anyother weekend day . I don't really see any point in celebrating it cos it isnt really apart of culture pluse you dont see white people celebrating our holidays kinda seems wierd when some apne go get a tree eat a turkey n all of that.

[JSinghnz]

Young people are cleverer and stronger than you give them credit for, and certainly cleverer than you.

It would take an extremely weak and feeble mind to get confused over a tree. It would take an extremely weak and feeble mind to start questioning one's own faith because a card with a fat jolly geezer wearing a red suit sits on the fireplace. Frankly it's an insult to young Sikhs everywhere that you would even think they are so weak in the head.

They are young. They want to and need to have fun, and apart from you and a few others here nobody else in western Europe even thinks about associating Jesus and Christianity with any of this Santa business.

I would have thought young Sikhs all over the western world are probably laughing their heads off when they read some of the comments from the 'older' Sikhs here in the name of protecting the young 'uns.

Just proves the parents of the young people are too weak to tell the young ones that Sikhs do not celebrate Christmas.

Just proves the parents of young people are too confused over having fun and have to have a tree to dance around.

Just proves that the whole western world is probably laughing their heads off at this copy cat attitude of "coconuts."

[sikhiseeker]

Young people are cleverer and stronger than you give them credit for, and certainly cleverer than you.

It would take an extremely weak and feeble mind to get confused over a tree. It would take an extremely weak and feeble mind to start questioning one's own faith because a card with a fat jolly geezer wearing a red suit sits on the fireplace. Frankly it's an insult to young Sikhs everywhere that you would even think they are so weak in the head.

They are young. They want to and need to have fun, and apart from you and a few others here nobody else in western Europe even thinks about associating Jesus and Christianity with any of this Santa business.

I would have thought young Sikhs all over the western world are probably laughing their heads off when they read some of the comments from the 'older' Sikhs here in the name of protecting the young 'uns.

WJKK WJKF

Veer ji, you quote my response and respond to me by insulting me. Do you understand what nimrata means?

Secondly, the majority of kids within the uk have been heavily westernised and many do not know how to speak panjabi due to their parents not having the ability. Less numbers of teenagers attend gurdwara, hence why gurdware and generally the panth try and get the youth in by offering other services like the gym and sports. By celebrating the Christian holiday, "CHRIST MAS" is also a detrimental factor to the kaum, especially when at that very time, one of our own pants greatest battles was endured. If you wish to allow your children to believe in this "fat jolly fella in red" as you keep saying, who is a depiction of the CHRISTIAN SAINT, SAINT NICHOLAS, carry on. But it is contrary to the rehat maryada.

Whether or not the indigenous population deem Christmas to be a Christian celebration or not, for a sikh it is simply manmatt. Like you suggest, if all the Sikhs around Europe think my opinion is ridiculous, please have a read of the rehat maryada.

The Christmas Tree is a Pagan and Christian symbol. It can never be anything else. The nishaab Sahib is a sikh Symbol. It stands for all the gains and loses Sikhs gave to us. The Miri/Piri of a sikh strong. It can never be anything else.

You and many othe Sikhs choose to celebrate Christmas when the battle of Chamkaur was engaged? You are an intelligent person, it's simply a contradictory message to a child who needs direction from their parents. Why do you think interfaith marriages are so high and permitted in our gurdware? All factors like these add up.

Anyway, do as you please in the end, your personal life and residency is your own. Brother a polite benti to you, converse and agree/disagree with me as much as you please as this is a forum for different opinions, however we are all Sikhs here, so do not continue to personally insult me.

[sikhiseeker]

WJKK WJKF

Sangat Ji,

Does anybody know whether sikh faith schools within the uk like nishkam in Birmingham display Christmas Trees or enact The Nativity Play with their students?

[Pakandi baba]

Did I say Sikhs should do Ashura? Did I say Sikhs should do self flagellation? did you even read my post properly before replying? I said Sikhs should spend those says by doing more Paath and Simran in remembrance of Guru Sahib whose sons had given the ultimate sacrifice instead of cheerfully celebrating Christmas which is not even a Sikh holiday

But no day is more improtant than another. Paath etc should be done all throught the day. Remembering the Prophets of Akal Purakh is not a demeaning thing, as Guru Sahibs have emphasised that all are sent by the ONE! Satkaar is there for a reason.

WJKK WJKF

Sangat Ji,

Does anybody know whether sikh faith schools within the uk like nishkam in Birmingham display Christmas Trees or enact The Nativity Play with their students?

Because their students are not all Sikhs?

[sikhiseeker]

But no day is more improtant than another. Paath etc should be done all throught the day. Remembering the Prophets of Akal Purakh is not a demeaning thing, as Guru Sahibs have emphasised that all are sent by the ONE! Satkaar is there for a reason.

Because their students are not all Sikhs?

WJKK WJKF

I think you may have misunderstood my post, the above was asked as a question to sangat who may know living near sikh faith schools as there are none where I live.

I agree with you that the satkaar and kadhar of the prophets of other faiths should be upheld, however that does not mean we should participate in all other none sikh celebrations like Christmas in my opinion.

I base my opinion on many factors, gurmat tells us:

paae gehae jab thae thumarae thab thae kooo aakh tharae nehee aaniyo | raam reheem puraan kuraan anaek kehai math eaek n maaniyo |

O God ! the day when I caught hold of your feet, I do not bring anyone else under my sight; none other is liked by me now; the Puranas and the Quran try to know Thee by the names of Ram and Rahim and talk about you through several stories, but I do not accept any of their opinions;

sinmrith saasathr baedh sabhai bahu bhaedh kehai ham eaek n jaaniyo | sree asipaan kripaa thumaree kar mai n kehiyo sabh thohi bakhaaniyo |863|

The Simritis, Shastras and Vedas describe several mysteries of yours, but I do not agree with any of them. O sword-wielder God! This all has been described by Thy Grace, what power can I have to write all this?.863.

DOHRA

sagal dhuaar ko shaadd kai gehiyo thuhaaro dhuaar | baahi gehae kee laaj as gobindh dhaas thuhaar |864|

O Lord ! I have forsaken all other doors and have caught hold of only Thy door. O Lord ! Thou has caught hold of my arm; I, Govind, am Thy serf, kindly take (care of me and) protect my honour.864.

The Rehat Maryada states:

A)Regarding the ten Gurus, the Guru Granth Sahib and the ten Gurus' word alone as saviours and holy objects of veneration.

B)Not believing in or according any authority to Muslim seers, Brahmins' holiness, soothsayers, clairvoyants, oracles, promise of an offering on the fulfillment of a wish, offering of sweet loaves or rice pudding at graves on fulfillment of wishes, the Vedas, the Shastras, the Gayatri,(Hindu scriptural prayer unto the sun) the Gita, the Quaran, the Bible, etc. However, the study of the books of other faiths for general self-education is admissible.

This is why IMO, a sikh of the guru should not celebrate Christmas. I try and imagine the chaar sahibzade and great shaheed Sikhs like Dhan Dhan Shaheed Baba Jeevan Singh ji walking into my home at the end of the year during the time of the battle of chamtkaur, can you imagine what these Mahaan shaheed would say to me if I had my house lit up with a Christmas tree in the corner and my children waiting to get their presents from Saint Nicholas (Father Christmas) during the days that the youngest of our gurus sons were waiting to be tortured to death? These pyare pyare children of our guru were offered carts of toys as a bribe in order to leave their faith and accept Islam, which they declined, put their heads on their palms, giving their all for sikhi. As we all know, they were then tortured to death.

However, under the name of Christmas, integration within a western society and simply being "fun" for our children, many of us today, offer our own children intisements and excitement as was offered as toys to our Mahaan sahibzade at a time of year within the sikh calendar where contemplation is needed.

Why can't we save all this fun for vaisakhi?

[Singhshaster]

To all who are putting up trees , why? What's your reason for putting them up? As some have stated that they look nice then why do you take it down, just leave them up in your rooms permanently.

I wouldn't put up a tree as it has no meaning to me or my family, In my opinion its just a blind ritual.

[Jonny101]

But no day is more improtant than another. Paath etc should be done all throught the day. Remembering the Prophets of Akal Purakh is not a demeaning thing, as Guru Sahibs have emphasised that all are sent by the ONE! Satkaar is there for a reason.

Using your own argument and advise, if all days are same then why put up a tree and specially buy gifts for your children around christmas? why not put up a tree during summer? why only around Christmas? so obviously christmas is something special for western Christianized Sikhs which is why they are so defensive about celebrating it, same way Shaheedi of Sahibzaade is not an ordinary day for faithful traditional Sikhs of Guru Maharaj. Sikhs from all over the world do pilgrimage to places associated with the Sahibzaade during their Shaheedi divas. I still remember when it was the 300 year anniversary of the Shaheedi of the Sahibzaade, lakhs of Sikhs form all over North India gathered in Sirhind to pay homage to these princes of martyrs.

[JagsawSingh]

To all who are putting up trees , why? What's your reason for putting them up? As some have stated that they look nice then why do you take it down, just leave them up in your rooms permanently.

Why do you sometimes wear western jeans ? They're something that have nothing to do withour forefathers. If they look nice, why do you take them off ? Why not keep them on all the time ?

I wouldn't put up a tree as it has no meaning to me or my family

Just like jeans have no meaning to you, your family or your heritage. Just like the jeans, the trees are harmless but why the hypocricy about which western traditions you wish to partake in and which you don't ?

Wallpaper ?

Clocks ?

Carpet ?

Is there no limit to the things you disaprove of because they have no relevance tour heritage or is it something you have personally against harmless trees ?

I pity the children of many of the members here. The holiday season is not about you....its not for you. Its for the children to join in and have fun. Thats what being a child is all about. As I said before, apart from some of you here nobody in the developed world associates the holiday season with Jesus and Christianity.

I spent my wholelife dismissing intolerant Muslims for refusing to integrate...refusing to let their children be productive members of the society they live in. Never in a million years did I imagine that a new generation of young adult Sikhs would be of the same ilk. Disappointing to say the least.

[DiscoverSikhism]

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ, ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਿਹ

There is a fine line between integration and assimilation...

Assimilation means absorbing minorities into the ways of the majority - requiring them to adopt the majority's language, customs and 'values'.

Integration, by contrast, requires acceptance of a country's laws, of human rights such as freedom of speech, and of basic democratic rights, but does not require the eradication of all cultural differences or group-identities; it is conceived of as a two-way process, through which both the majority and the minorities influence and change one another, and in which differences can be peacefully accommodated as long is there a common commitment to living together.

How many non-Sikhs want to integrate with Sikhs? how many do you see celebrate Gurpurab's? how many adopt Sikh values?

Regardless, we think trees look nicer outside peoples houses. Preferably, with families of tree's called forests.