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Christmas Trees In Houses Of Sikhs


JSinghnz
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How about throwing your same argument back at you: Why assume that plastic tree is built by exploiting the poor. I'm sure the people that work in the factories that make the trees, decorations etc etc are hoping and praying that people won't stop buying them because if they do, they will be out of a job and their children will have no food.

I asked before, but all of you tree haters ignored it, the question was this: As you are anti-xmas tree simply because of the christian roots of christmas (even though 99.99% of the UK don't even see anything christian about christmas) why don't I see any of you showing the same zeal against neck-ties ? (given how the roots of the neck-tie are also christian)

Some of you, middle class members of the WI and a few old pensioners are the only people left alive in western Europe that still equate xmas with Jesus and Christianity. The rest of us didn't even think of the connection before you put it into our heads. Its nearly 2015....Not 1942. get with the programme. You're the only ones that even think of Jesus. Stop trying to protect the Sikh 'children' when the children don;t even make the connection you 1940's dwellers are making. The only ones putting Jesus into their heads is you. Stop making the exact same mistakes the previous generation of Muslims in the UK have made.

If you wanna see how confused you're making the young 'uns just take a look at the previus message from the young fella. Earlier n this thread he was quite happy with trees, like the rest of having never associated mas with christianity, but you guys have now created a young man that thinks like this: This is what he said:

Happy now ? :nono:

aren't we supposed to distance ourselves from Maya and our Lobh ...?

Most trees are made in factories in China and the far East where employee safety and wages are low ...yes I agree they need a living but at the same time can we not make sure we live ethically by voting with our money and making demands for better conditions for those people , not just for Christmas but life?

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Kids are not that dumb.

I and many gursikhs I know grew up with xmas trees in their homes during childhood, guess what.. we guru dey sikh.. it took nothing from our sikhi.

Surpressing the desire of kids to be involved in small pleasures like xmas trees may only work against you in the long run.. there are many ultra strict gursikh parents with grown up children who are monay/drinkers etc.

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Kids are not that dumb.

I and many gursikhs I know grew up with xmas trees in their homes during childhood, guess what.. we guru dey sikh.. it took nothing from our sikhi.

Surpressing the desire of kids to be involved in small pleasures like xmas trees may only work against you in the long run.. there are many ultra strict gursikh parents with grown up children who are monay/drinkers etc.

This argument was put forward already and it was given a response. Here it is:

Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji celebrated Vaisakhi, but in a Gurmat way of blessing Sikhs with 5 Kakkars and Punj Pyare. The Sixth Guru took Diwali and celebrated it in a Gurmat way of going to the Gurdwara and celebrating with the Sadh sangat and Gurbani. Holi was taken and transformed into Holla Mohalla. Sikhs took the concept of a New Year and turned it into Gurmat. Sikhs don't celebrate New Years to worship the two faced God Janus. Sikhs go to the Gurdwara sing Shabads, listening to katha, and partake in langar and seva. The Guru picked Holi, Vaisakhi and Diwali dates to influence Sikhs to come to the Guru and not wander off into mindless celebrations. New Years has the same concept attached to it. Instead of going to clubs, pubs, bars, house parties or other mindless functions the Sikhs choose to come to the Guru.

The same cannot be said about those who put up a Christmas tree. You put a tree up, decorate the tree, put presents around the tree, and exchange gifts in the same fashion. Guru Sahib would have taken this day and changed it into Gurmat. He and the sangat would have went around fed the poor, gave them necessities, sang Gurbani and joined everyone to the feet of the Guru in the Gurdwara. Guru Sahib would have brought the people closer to Gurbani. Instead the Christmas tree promoters are joining together around a tree, which originated from a pagan ritual.

It is being ignorant and calling the Guru foolish when people say it is for the kids. Do you not believe the kids back in the 10 Gurus time wanted to play and throw colors on each other? Any kid would have had a blast participating in this ritual. By the Christmas tree people standards it is evil to take kids away from being included in such playful activities and even being a Taliban. Yet our Guru, Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji said not to participate in this ritual and celebrate Holla Mohalla.

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lol

JawahSingh youngun?? lol hahaha

I personaly know Sikhs who have become christian so this is not a laughing matter. I take this seriously. Yes we did have trees when we was younger thats because we didnt know better.

Christmas should not be celebrated. do we actually know what the celebratinon is? Its probably somehting that goes against Sikhism. we dont belive in no jesus as the son of God. and people who belive this stuff are going against the teachings of Sikhism. As Sikh men we need to set an example to the Sikh women. not by putting up some tree,. wake and smell the coffee mate.

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As Sikh men we need to set an example to the Sikh women. not by putting up some tree,. wake and smell the coffee mate.

I dont get that bit, you saying Sikh women clueless or something bro? Why they need men to set the example and make them understand?

How about if I want to put up a few lights in/outside, bit of tinsel here and there, relax with friends family, have a few nice meals and give a few pressies out to people who I appreciate? Not because it's Christ-Mass, or whatever, but because I've been working hard all year and for me this is now time to chill out and relax since work is closed anyways.

Is that acceptable?

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How about throwing your same argument back at you: Why assume that plastic tree is built by exploiting the poor. I'm sure the people that work in the factories that make the trees, decorations etc etc are hoping and praying that people won't stop buying them because if they do, they will be out of a job and their children will have no food.

I asked before, but all of you tree haters ignored it, the question was this: As you are anti-xmas tree simply because of the christian roots of christmas (even though 99.99% of the UK don't even see anything christian about christmas) why don't I see any of you showing the same zeal against neck-ties ? (given how the roots of the neck-tie are also christian)

Some of you, middle class members of the WI and a few old pensioners are the only people left alive in western Europe that still equate xmas with Jesus and Christianity. The rest of us didn't even think of the connection before you put it into our heads. Its nearly 2015....Not 1942. get with the programme. You're the only ones that even think of Jesus. Stop trying to protect the Sikh 'children' when the children don;t even make the connection you 1940's dwellers are making. The only ones putting Jesus into their heads is you. Stop making the exact same mistakes the previous generation of Muslims in the UK have made.

If you wanna see how confused you're making the young 'uns just take a look at the previous message, from a young fella among us. Earlier in this thread he was quite happy with trees, like the rest of us having never associated xmas with christianity, but you guys have now created a young man that thinks like this: This is what he said:

Happy now ? :nono:

WJKK WJKF

I thought you was not gonna comment on this topic but as you have resumed, do you thing that if Shiri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Mahrajbwas in physical today, do you think that they would have a Christmas tree up in their darbar? My answer would be NO, so how does it look when the Khalsa practice manmat and celebrate Christmas?

You keep banging on about ties, were talking about the celebration of Christmas within Sikhs! What is your point? That we should renounce any invention a Christian may have intended or any clothing to do with the west when I clearly responded to your question stating that the rehat maryada states that a sikh has no restriction on clothing, other than 5 k's. Did you not read my post?

Your big on facts and stats within your previous posts on other topics, yet you keep stating that in the uk 99.99% of people do not celebrate Xmas religiously. Where did you get this stat from veera? Thin air? Or a desperate search for justifying your love of celebrating Xmas. However, if it is a real, uk gov researched stat, please let us all have the link so we can have a butchers ourselves.

If you said that you simply love Xmas and your kids love it too, fine! But brother don't try and justify it in terms of gurmat and the Khalsa, because you will fail every time.

As AGAIN....there is nothing sikh......or Khalsa about a Khalsa sikh having a tree, which is a pagan/Christian symbol in their home which has been decorated to welcome in the celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ and the arrival on Christmas Eve of SANTA Claus ( SANTA meaning saint, a Christian one) all with the sikh wearing the forbidden tie lol.

Fact of the matter is, if Xmas has nothing to do with Jesus, why still in our schools across the uk is the Nativity Play inacted? BECAUSE IRREGARDS OF YOUR STATS OF 99.99% OF PEOPLE DONT BELIEVE IN CHRISTMAS AS A CHRISTIAN HOLIDAY, THE U.K IS STILL A CHRISTIAN COUNTRY CELEBRATING WITHIN ITS CALENDAR, CHRISTIAN HOLIDAYS LIKE EASTER!

You never did respond with an opinion on if Sikhs within panjab, especially sirhind started decorating their homes with lights, had Xmas trees in their homes and Santa stops outside? Be interesting in knowing what you thought, if this were to ever happen?

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lol

JawahSingh youngun?? lol hahaha

I personaly know Sikhs who have become christian so this is not a laughing matter. I take this seriously. Yes we did have trees when we was younger thats because we didnt know better.

Christmas should not be celebrated. do we actually know what the celebratinon is? Its probably somehting that goes against Sikhism. we dont belive in no jesus as the son of God. and people who belive this stuff are going against the teachings of Sikhism. As Sikh men we need to set an example to the Sikh women. not by putting up some tree,. wake and smell the coffee mate.

You wern't clever enough to understand why I chose you as an example my friend.

Its because of what you said in your previous message. You said:

"I have got nothing against having a few drinks on Christmas and having some turkey. But there is a limit that we should not cross no pun intended.

and that red line is putting up trees"

So let me just get this straight, you think getting drunk and consuming the flesh of god's creatures are good, but those lovely trees are EVIL!! ?

Do you see now why I used you as an example ?

As Sikh men we need to set an example to the Sikh women. not by putting up some tree,

Remind us again why your'e a moral authority Sikh females should aspire to follow ?

You never did respond with an opinion on if Sikhs within panjab, especially sirhind started decorating their homes with lights, had Xmas trees in their homes and Santa stops outside? Be interesting in knowing what you thought, if this were to ever happen?

Well Sikhseeker this is what I mean by putting things into context. When we here in England join in with the festivities is because we're part of this society where almost everybody is in it for the jollyness and almost nobody is in it for the 'Christian' aspect. Its simply an extension of ourselves as part of society.

However, if someone in Punjab does it, where it most definately is NOT part of the culture of society, than you know it takes on a purely religious role...i.e Christianity.

Horses for courses my friend. For example, my brothers in Punjab, if they need to do a number 2, simply drop their pants on the roadside (rural) and do it. And thats perfectly OK. But does that mean its OK for us to do that here in Tooting, Tipton and Teddington too ?

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You wern't clever enough to understand why I chose you as an example my friend.

Its because of what you said in your previous message. You said:

"I have got nothing against having a few drinks on Christmas and having some turkey. But there is a limit that we should not cross no pun intended.

and that red line is putting up trees"

So let me just get this straight, you think getting drunk and consuming the flesh of god's creatures are good, but those lovely trees are EVIL!! ?

Do you see now why I used you as an example ?

Remind us again why your'e a moral authority Sikh females should aspire to follow ?

Well Sikhseeker this is what I mean by putting things into context. When we here in England join in with the festivities is because we're part of this society where almost everybody is in it for the jollyness and almost nobody is in it for the 'Christian' aspect. Its simply an extension of ourselves as part of society.

However, if someone in Punjab does it, where it most definately is NOT part of the culture of society, than you know it takes on a purely religious role...i.e Christianity.

Horses for courses my friend. For example, my brothers in Punjab, if they need to do a number 2, simply drop their pants on the roadside (rural) and do it. And thats perfectly OK. But does that mean its OK for us to do that here in Tooting, Tipton and Teddington too ?

Jagshaw waits for christmas (his birthday not Jesus') to be jolly,

otherwise he is a jolly serious fella.

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You wern't clever enough to understand why I chose you as an example my friend.

Its because of what you said in your previous message. You said:

"I have got nothing against having a few drinks on Christmas and having some turkey. But there is a limit that we should not cross no pun intended.

and that red line is putting up trees"

So let me just get this straight, you think getting drunk and consuming the flesh of god's creatures are good, but those lovely trees are EVIL!! ?

Do you see now why I used you as an example ?

Remind us again why your'e a moral authority Sikh females should aspire to follow ?

Well Sikhseeker this is what I mean by putting things into context. When we here in England join in with the festivities is because we're part of this society where almost everybody is in it for the jollyness and almost nobody is in it for the 'Christian' aspect. Its simply an extension of ourselves as part of society.

However, if someone in Punjab does it, where it most definately is NOT part of the culture of society, than you know it takes on a purely religious role...i.e Christianity.

Horses for courses my friend. For example, my brothers in Punjab, if they need to do a number 2, simply drop their pants on the roadside (rural) and do it. And thats perfectly OK. But does that mean its OK for us to do that here in Tooting, Tipton and Teddington too ?

WJKK WJKF

Thanks for the reply. However as the UK officially being a Christian country and the Christian missionaries converting the panjabi people to Christianity, I don't see a difference if a Khalsa sikh celebrates here or in panjab, other than being pure manmatt.

Veer ji, again in your reply you talk about a majority of people, please provide link to where you got this stat from. You did not pick up on this point in my previous post.

Also, Indian culture is one thing and obviously uk culture is another. However culture of any country has nothing to do with gurmat. The British enjoy congregating in there local pub/bar for a pint, does that mean due to the majority of society following this trend in culture, we as Khalsa Sikhs should go down to the local and have a pint too? As that is what your opinion on this topic would suggest, basically being a bakri, following all the other bakria, even off the cliff edge if it happens.

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